# Homosexuality in professional sports **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473 "2004-01-28T23:03:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/1 "2004-01-28T23:03:44Z")
This is a really strange thread for me, because it’s fairly common knowledge around the boards that I loathe homosexuality threads. I long ago decided, I think correctly, that what you do in your bedroom is your business and people shouldn’t be discriminated against on the basis of sexuality, so what else is there to talk about, right? [Here](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1720362) is something worth talking about. > [@](#): > > Indians minor league pitcher Kazuhito Tadano is asking for forgiveness for what he called a one-time mistake – his appearance in a gay porn video in which he engaged in a homosexual act. Also of interest is this: > [@](#): > > There are no openly gay players in the big leagues today. The same is true in the NFL, NHL and NBA. So the deal seems to be that if you’re gay you’re out. Period. Accordingly, this guy has fallen all over himself trying to deny that he is gay. Well, fella, videotape doesn’t lie. Now here’s what bothers me. To me, it makes no sense to apologize over something like this. What’s done is done, it’s something he did in the past, and at the time he didn’t think it was anything wrong, so why apologize? To appease the baseball lords? They don’t care whether he apologizes or not. Like I said, videotape don’t lie. So I would see this as a golden opportunity to break that barrier down. But an apology for something that really isn’t a big deal undermines that and gives legitimacy to the idea that it IS a big deal. So what do you think about this guy? I’m thinking that it doesn’t matter whether he’s gay or not, but when you have a videotape to compare to his statement, it seems rather incongruous at best, disingenuous at worst, and under any circumstances it’s a disservice to homosexual athletes in general, especially when he asks for forgiveness that he really need not seek because he simply didn’t do anything wrong. So that’s my opinion. Fire away. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/2 "2004-01-28T23:33:40Z")
I think possibly he’s apologizing for appearing in a porn video rather than for “engaging in a homosexual act”. But if he decides to make his sexuality an issue, we’d have people pointing at him and saying “this homosexual baseball player was in a porn video” and generalizing that statement to all sports players who come out. This may not be the best time for a new paradigm in sports. (That said, I deplore any delay, necessary or not, in exposing and destroying bigotry.) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/3 "2004-01-28T23:37:19Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > So the deal seems to be that if you’re gay you’re out. Period. Accordingly, this guy has fallen all over himself trying to deny that he is gay. Well, fella, videotape doesn’t lie. Well, not that I’m any big expert on gay porn (heh), and this doesn’t necessarily have an impact on your overall question, but I have to address some of the sentiment behind this statement, since you repeat it more than once. From what I’ve read (mostly on this message board, actually!), you’re making a big incorrect assumption, here. I understand that there are plenty (many?) relatively popular gay porn actors who are ostensibly straight. I believe the term is “gay for pay”? So the presence in the video would not necessarily mean homosexuality 100% of the time, as you seem to imply. Perhaps someone who knows more about gay porn than me could confirm this…? 😃 (PS - And not that it matters, since he admitted it was him, but videotape CAN lie, and even more than ever with modern technology. Just sayin’.) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/4 "2004-01-28T23:47:48Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > videotape don’t lie **Leaper** beat me to it. There are a number of straight men who work in gay porn because the money is better. I’ve got a couple of names in mind, including a prominent porn actor who works both gay and straight, but I’m at work and a verifying Google search would be a really, really, really bad idea. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/5 "2004-01-28T23:54:55Z")
I’m not going to condemn the guy. I mean, who among us didn’t do some gay porn in college for a little money on the side, right guys? Show of hands? Guys? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/6 "2004-01-29T00:01:41Z")
Tadano did make a point of stressing, “I’m not gay. I’d like to clear that fact up right now.” Which leads one to believe it’s the “gay” and not the “porn” part he is falling all over himself to apologize for. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/7 "2004-01-29T00:10:59Z")
Is it also possible that Tadano-san is Japanese born and a) doesn’t fully understand American culture and b) needs to be concerned about his personal standing in Japan (where homosexuality is much less tolerated than in the US? I’m not sure a US born guy would have done differently, but I think his country of origin has to be taken into account here. ---
**Author:** ![jkusters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jkusters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkusters)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/8 "2004-01-29T01:43:00Z")
I just don’t get why anyone would feel the need to apologize for being in porn, straight or gay. It was a decision made based on the facts of the current situation, and no-one got hurt (presumably). What’s to apologize for? Are sports fans so prudish that they’d boycott a sports team that had a member that once appeared in porn? (Or do I just have a more relaxed attitude about porn than the majority of Americans? Things like this make me feel like an alien on my home planet…) JOhn. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/9 "2004-01-29T01:47:18Z")
You’re right, John. Tadano **is** Japanese-born. But while that may play into his own cultural reaction I’m convinced that he made his admission and apology as he did for reasons of _baseball_ culture. While it’s clear that there have been gay baseball players it has _never_ been accepted in the sport. The macho culture of baseball tolerates a great many so-called ‘man vices’ like womanizing and drinking and such. But it doesn’t tolerate homosexuality. Dave Pallone, homosexual and one-time major-league umpire, in his book _Behind the Mask_ writes very convincingly of his experiences and exposure to baseball, both in his minor league and major league days. He claims that while some players are gay (and in fact describes a sexual encounter he had _with a player_ during his umpiring days) they **must** stay in the closet or they risk being removed from the guy through ostracization from the ‘old boys’ network that organized baseball functions on. Eventually Pallone leaves umpiring when his homosexuality is discovered. Even his crewmates (who have taken a long time to warm up to him as he came to the majors as a ‘scab’ umpire during a strike) who are sympathetic to him do nothing to assist. Tadano, knowing that this film is coming to light, has (IMHO) no choice other than to say “I was poor, and I needed the money badly. But I’m not gay.” He **has** to if he expects to advance in his career. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/10 "2004-01-29T01:55:37Z")
**JC** : I agree and I thought I made that clear in my post. But **AD** seems to be coming down on this particular guy, and I don’t see any reason to do so. No American in his place would come clean, and given the overlay of Japanese culture going on in Tadano-san’s case, I think it’s especially unfair. AFAIK, it’s not just baseball, but men’s pro sports in general. How many openly gay players are there in: Football, Basketball, Hockey, Golf,…? Are there even any openly gay men pro Figure Skaters? How does this compare in Eurpean countries or Canada? Any non-US sports fans want to chime in? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/11 "2004-01-29T02:00:57Z")
Ian Roberts, Aussie rugby league, retired, gay. You have no idea what Google subjected me to to find that :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/12 "2004-01-29T02:02:34Z")
This guy should be a role model. A sports player who got caught for something that didn’t involve a fridge full of torsos and heroin. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/13 "2004-01-29T02:03:27Z")
I see, John. I agree that Tadano’s action of _apologizing_ comes from his cultural background. That’s not an American thing to do. An American would be more likely to simply justify his actions based on his financial standing at the time. He wouldn’t be likely to apologize for it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/14 "2004-01-29T02:12:40Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Ian Roberts, Aussie rugby league, retired, gay. > > You have no idea what Google subjected me to to find that :rolleyes: I was thinking active player. Did Roberts come out while he was active or not until after he retired? ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/15 "2004-01-29T02:39:49Z")
I believe Tadano apologized because Japanese culture is big on apologies for “shameful” revelations, but also because he is afraid and uncertain of how American MLB will react. Having been shunned from his home country, he’s got to be worried he’ll have no place left for his career should the sentiment turn against him. Fortunately, it appears that the Indians don’t care about his orientation and want him to do well in their system. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/16 "2004-01-29T02:48:02Z")
It’s simply a regrettable fact that gays are not tolerated in pro sport. He has to apologize and he has to say he’s not gay, or his life as a pro ballplayer will be a living hell. Mike Piazza had to call a press conference to deny rumous he was gay. Many players have made, um, unfortunate comments when asked about playing with gay teammates. And if I may tread on some sensitive ground, MLB especially has a somewhat larger-than-normal populace of fundamentalist Christian folks, who are not known for being overabundantantly blessed with tolerance in such matters. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/17 "2004-01-29T02:52:37Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I was thinking active player. Did Roberts come out while he was active or not until after he retired? Ian Roberts was still playing when he came out, and the fact of his sexuality was an open secret for years prior. He eventually became the first openly gay captain of a rugby league team (Superleague, as it was back then). ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/18 "2004-01-29T02:53:27Z")
Anybody see the film? I wonder if he was a catcher or pitcher. Was his acting wooden or limp. I guess it’s unlikely he’ll be signing up for the swallows. Ok, ok… enough. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/19 "2004-01-29T02:56:56Z")
> [@Jervoise](#): > > Ian Roberts was still playing when he came out, and the fact of his sexuality was an open secret for years prior. He eventually became the first openly gay captain of a rugby league team (Superleague, as it was back then). Wow. Who would’ve thunk that Aussie Rugby was that tolerant of gays? Has that lead to an overall tolerance of gays in Aussie sport, or was it a once shot deal for I.R.? ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/20 "2004-01-29T04:00:33Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Wow. Who would’ve thunk that Aussie Rugby was that tolerant of gays? Has that lead to an overall tolerance of gays in Aussie sport, or was it a once shot deal for I.R.? Unfortunately, Roberts was a once-off. I stand to be corrected, but off the top of my head I can’t think of another openly gay Australian athlete since Roberts. I know of at least one Australian Rules footballer who’s supposedly active on the gay scene, but is not “officially” out. OTOH, there’s been one or two open lesbians–e.g. one of the multiple Olympic Gold Medal winning Hockeyroos, IIRC. (Also, an ex-partner of mine has represented Australian internationally–but not in a team sport, and his sexuality was not subject to public comment.) That’s also not to say that Roberts had an easy time of it, either. He was subject to hate mail, homophobic taunts on the field (even before coming out) and off-field harrassment and violence. But FWIW, it is reported that his rugby teammates came to accept Roberts’s boyfriend in the same manner as other players’ wives and partners, and other rugby players and sporting commentator publicly stood by Roberts. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473.md?page=2)