# Homosexuality in professional sports **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473 "2004-01-28T23:03:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/21 "2004-01-29T04:37:48Z")
Considering that it was only a few years ago that Ellen felt comfortable “coming out” even in Hollywood, it shoudn’t be too surprising that it’s going to take a lot longer for the same to happen in proffesional sports. I wouldn’t expect any significant change for the next 25 yrs, to be honest. And who knows how long beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/22 "2004-01-29T05:21:45Z")
I’ve got to believe that if this guy had done some straight porn nobody would care. It’s obviously the “homosexual act” that he’s apologizing for and it’s too bad he feels like has to. I also doubt that his teammates would be so accepting if he had told them that he _was_ gay. Pro atheletes are a bunch of hypocritical troglodytes when it comes to this issue. Drinking, drugs, steroids, orgies, domestic violence, drunk driving, even murder charges are accepted are forgiven in locker rooms but if you’re a homo you have leprosy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/23 "2004-01-29T07:01:21Z")
I’m not entirely sure I really want the answer to this question, but what, exactly, was his “role” in this movie? That is to say, how “active” a participant was he? You know, used to be, back in the WWII era and before, that entirely hetero men would avail themselves of the, ah, services of gay men when the preferred outlet was unavailable. James Jones, author of _From Here to Eternity_, was said to enjoy shocking people by relating stories of being on leave in various ports of call and asking, in _faux_ innocence, “What? You never had your cock sucked by a man?” According to legend, this was especially true of servicemen overseas. It was held not to reflect on the “manliness” of the suckee. Your correspondent hastens to note that he claims no expertise in this regard whatsoever. I’d rather see my grandmother naked than watch two guys get it on. You probably should check with **Diogenes** on this, he was in the Navy, and all. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/24 "2004-01-29T13:39:54Z")
Once again, it’s going to take a very brave and supremely talented player to begin to break this down. Someone just like Jackie Robinson when he (re)broke the color barrier. Someone of the true superstar level who’s established himself as one of the top players in the game could come out of the closet and **dare** MLB to banish him into exile. If done with an owner of good conscience it could begin to turn the tide. But don’t hold your breath. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/25 "2004-01-29T14:19:25Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > **JC** : > > I agree and I thought I made that clear in my post. But **AD** seems to be coming down on this particular guy, and I don’t see any reason to do so. No American in his place would come clean, and given the overlay of Japanese culture going on in Tadano-san’s case, I think it’s especially unfair. > > AFAIK, it’s not just baseball, but men’s pro sports in general. How many openly gay players are there in: Football, Basketball, Hockey, Golf,…? Are there even any openly gay men pro Figure Skaters? > > How does this compare in Eurpean countries or Canada? Any non-US sports fans want to chime in? I can’t speak for continental Europe, but in Britain, there are very few openly gay sportmen - at least in sports like football, rugby, cricket, athletics etc. British sports crowds aren’t exactly noted for their tolerance. On the other hand, the revelation that any particular figure skater or gymnast might be gay would most likely draw a “Well, duh!” from the average punter, and as for women’s sport, it’s generally held that lesbianism’s rife all through the tennis circuit and probably football too, and it’s more or less impossible to throw a bucket of water over a women’s rugby scrum without getting a lesbian wet. But it doesn’t attract anything like the same hostility so far as I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Eveready](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/87869e/32.png) [@Eveready](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eveready)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/26 "2004-01-29T14:26:30Z")
Womanizing, Drugs, Steroids, Adultery, Spouse Abuse, Corked Bats, Brawls. What’s one more scandal in professional sports? Well at least he didn’t [bet on baseball](http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2004-01-09-rose-usa-today-interview_x.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/27 "2004-01-29T14:57:58Z")
Live and let live. Someday we’ll be at the point where sexual orientation is no more a barrier than skin pigmentation. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/28 "2004-01-29T21:00:05Z")
I once saw an Oprah show about brave gay people who have overcome the homophobia that used to control their lives. It was appalling to me because the whole point of the show was ‘Look how brave we are!’ rather than ‘Look how f\*cked up our society is when people can be made so miserable because of their orientation!’ Anyhoo, one of the guests was a former NFL player who was gay but didn’t come out until after he retired. Again, it was the whole “I’m so strong for coming through this trial,” not “There’s something wrong with a culture (American, NFL, whatever) that forces people to live such miserable closeted lives if they want to be successful.” They interviewed other NFLers who confirmed, yes, they would have beat the snot out of him if they’d known he was gay when they had been in the locker room together, haw haw, well, that’s the way things are. It really upset me. I had to chalk it up to another example of ‘how those in the real world aren’t nearly as nice as people in _my_ world.’ Really, on this board (and IRL for me, fortunately) we all tend to agree that people really shouldn’t be treated like shit because of their sexual orientation, but this doesn’t seem to have permeated the world that Oprah, for example, inhabits, and if Oprah hasn’t got it yet I _certainly_ wouldn’t expect professional sports to. ---
**Author:** ![jeevwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@jeevwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevwoman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/29 "2004-01-29T21:51:39Z")
I have read interviews with MLBers (I think the most recent was Bobby Valentine, but I have no cite right now. It was during the Mike Piazza affair) where they say that if a player were gay, there’d be no issue for most of the players. I would like to think that this is true, but I am then reminded of the horrible treatment Jim Bouton received when he wrote a book about his years playing where he mentioned that some of the players would make out with each other on the buses. (_Foul Ball?_ _Ball Four?_ Good lord, one of those anyway!) He was pretty much shunned. However, the book was more trashy than anything and also this was several decades ago. It wasn’t simply about homosexuality in baseball, and Bouton himself is straight. I would like to think that it would be tolerated and perhaps even accepted in the sport, but I also wonder if it makes a difference who it is. A big star who is already established vs. a nobody. Do you think that would matter? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/30 "2004-01-29T22:15:09Z")
Ian Roberts played Rugby League not “Rugby” (which is Rugby Union the game of last year’s World Cup. League is a more physically demanding game without the rucks, mauls and interminable stoppages. Roberts immediate acceptance on revealing his sexuality stemmed in part from the fact that he was one of the most ruthless defenders in the game. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/31 "2004-01-30T03:41:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m not entirely sure I really want the answer to this question, but what, exactly, was his “role” in this movie? That is to say, how “active” a participant was he? > > \ > > Your correspondent hastens to note that he claims no expertise in this regard whatsoever. I’d rather see my grandmother naked than watch two guys get it on. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/32 "2004-01-30T05:52:05Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Is it also possible that Tadano-san is Japanese born and a) doesn’t fully understand American culture and b) needs to be concerned about his personal standing in Japan (where homosexuality is much less tolerated than in the US? > > I’m not sure a US born guy would have done differently, but I think his country of origin has to be taken into account here. It’s funny you should say that because out of curiosity, I went to check what had been said on _Japanese_ MB about the topic, and one comment that came up often was that TDN (Tadano’s nickname) is in trouble because there is a lot of homophobia _in America_. Although it’s true that here, there’s a lot of expectation, institutionally, about your social behaviour. Scandalous revelations are definitely likely to get you screwed - figuratively speaking, of course. > [@elucidator](#): > > I’d rather see my grandmother naked than watch two guys get it on. I was stupid enough to click on one of the links in the threads mentioned above. I’ve seen way more of TDN than I would’ve cared to. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/33 "2004-01-30T06:30:15Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > The lady doth protest too much, methinks. 🙂 Wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/34 "2004-01-30T12:18:11Z")
The NFL player was likely Esera Tuaolo. If you google him up you will get a lot of articles about being gay in the NFL. He was closeted for his pro career. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/35 "2004-01-30T20:17:42Z")
I think the public’s going to forgive Tadano, at least as long as on the field he only tries to adjust his own package. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/36 "2004-01-30T20:45:16Z")
> [@jkusters](#): > > I just don’t get why anyone would feel the need to apologize for being in porn, straight or gay. It was a decision made based on the facts of the current situation, and no-one got hurt (presumably). What’s to apologize for? Are sports fans so prudish that they’d boycott a sports team that had a member that once appeared in porn? > > (Or do I just have a more relaxed attitude about porn than the majority of Americans? Things like this make me feel like an alien on my home planet…) > > JOhn. For God’s sake man, if players start appearing in porn, how will fans tell them from the cheerleaders?!? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/37 "2004-01-30T21:13:31Z")
I find it interesting that, with a couple of exceptions, the discussion on this so-called controversy, both here and in the general media, has skewed heavily towards the question “Which sports professionals might have been gay?” and away from the question “Which sports professionals have appeared in hardcore pornography?” I mean, we can all think of fallen idols on hard times who are only a drug relapse away from making a cameo in “I Swallow Fifty-Two,” and who’s going to blink an eye? Seriously: Have there been any? Does anybody really _know_, even? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/38 "2004-01-30T21:32:35Z")
It’s the double-standard that irks me. I don’t think the guy’s gay (but I could be wrong), but I do think he’s apologizing for the gay aspect of the encounter. Do you think for one minute that if Anna Kournikova dropped trou for the cameras that anyone would be complaining? Fat fucking chance. I also think if this guy did it on camera with a woman, no one would think much about it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/39 "2004-01-31T00:08:15Z")
Just a second, there, **Cervaise**. Hold everything. You mean to tell me those guys get _paid!?_ How come my vocational guidance counselor never mentioned this? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473/40 "2004-01-31T00:22:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Just a second, there, **Cervaise**. Hold everything. You mean to tell me those guys get _paid!?_ > > How come my vocational guidance counselor never mentioned this? Well, it’s never too late. Perhaps you can petition for some “retraining” dollars if you can claim your job was shipped overseas. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-in-professional-sports/226473.md?page=3)