# homosexuality is condemed by God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644 "2004-07-05T15:06:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![brewster2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@brewster2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewster2)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/1 "2004-07-05T15:06:57Z")
I’m not trying to get people angry but the bible clearly states it’s wrong.1st Corinthians 6:9 …nor abusers of themselves with mankind shall inherit God’s kingdom.Also 1st Timothy 1:10.Where do you think the term Sodomy came from?The bible, Sodom and Gormorah.It’s wrong and I’m not a homophobe ether I treat homosexuals with respect as people but I do not associate with them or fornicators ether.Think about it God loves you but if your living the wrong lifestyle then you reap what you sow.You can change I know because I was Bi-sexual when I was young.Sometimes the truth is hard for people to take.Forget T.V preachers they are money grabers.They want to tell you when the "worlds"coming to an end then charge you $29.95 for the book to let you know.Read your bible. thank you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/2 "2004-07-05T15:36:56Z")
At the risk of getting into a thread that I don’t really want to get into, so what? Even assuming that the interpretation that God condemns homosexuality is the correct one, doesn’t that simply **only** mean that we, personally, should eschew homosexuality if we want to share in His Kingdom? Surely you wouldn’t wish, for example, for the State to remove free will from those who would choose not to share in His Kingdom, right? I mean, what good is it for God to lay out a how-to on how to get in His good graces if people aren’t free to do so or not to do so? I, personally, want no part of the Kindgom of a guy (or Guy) who thinks that way. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/3 "2004-07-05T15:42:39Z")
Two things worth pointing out: 1. The Bible condemns a lot of things that we (meaning Western Society) accept without any problem. Why single out homosexuality? 2. The OP assumes that the Bible (1) is accurate and (2) should be followed, two points not necessarily accepted by everyone. Some of the most ardent students of the Bible are atheists… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/4 "2004-07-05T15:43:55Z")
The Bible is not God. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/5 "2004-07-05T15:57:40Z")
Well, your OP is frightfully over simplistic, and full of assumptions that just because you wish to follow the bible, then you know what is or is not right. And as has been pointed out to you, not everyone wants to follow the bible, and most of those people don’t think that it’s always right. But this: > [@brewster2](#): > > You can change I know because I was Bi-sexual when I was young. requires some backing up. When, precisely, were you bisexual? Why bi, and not homosexual? I’m sure you’re aware that claims of once being homosexual would carry more weight, right? How young were you? Did you ever act on your bisexuality? With whom? When? Because until you back up what I consider to be your specious claims, then I have to assume that you are a liar. And if I’m not mistaken, lying is one of those things that’s frowned upon in the bible, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/6 "2004-07-05T15:59:11Z")
> [@brewster2](#): > > Read your bible. thank you 🙂 I have - it by and large disgusts me with the heinous acts sanctioned by God or carried out in his name. But not as much as by those who profess to find it a guide to morality and then pick and choose what part of Leviticus or Romans to get their panties in a wad over. I look forward to your loud denunciation of ‘debaters’, people who wear mixed fibres, eat shell-fish etc. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/7 "2004-07-05T16:01:24Z")
Let’s take a closer look at what issues exist in what you are saying, and let’s look at possible points of contention. 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 – Do these verses refer specifically to homosexuals? There is debate that such verses may refer to male prostitutes. (There are many here who can explain this much better and in more detail than myself.) > [@](#): > > It’s wrong and I’m not a homophobe ether I treat homosexuals with respect as people but I do not associate with them or fornicators ether. I wouldn’t suggest avoiding certain sinners – after all, they’re a great missionary field. Besides, look at who Jesus hung out with, not the cream of the crop, eh? > [@](#): > > Think about it God loves you but if your living the wrong lifestyle then you reap what you sow. Please explain this further. What are the consequences to living a wrong lifestyle? For that matter, how is homosexuality a lifestyle? > [@](#): > > You can change I know because I was Bi-sexual when I was young. It’s not that easy for everyone. What are the success rates for people who engage in therapies in order to try to change their sexual orientation? I’ve heard they’re quite low; do you happen to have any figures? I’m sure there will be much contention on this, but if you have a specific part of this statement that you wish to discuss, please continue on. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/8 "2004-07-05T16:10:38Z")
> [@brewster2](#): > > It’s wrong and I’m not a homophobe ether I treat homosexuals with respect as people but I do not associate with them or fornicators ether. Could you explain in what way you treat them with respect because I’m just not seeing it from your post. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/9 "2004-07-05T16:25:18Z")
> [@brewster2](#): > > .It’s wrong and I’m not a homophobe ether I treat homosexuals with respect as people but I do not associate with them or fornicators ether. And do you associate with liars (since they’re sinners, exactly like homosexuals) or with people who eat shrimps (since the bible says eating them is an abomination, exactly like homosexuality). If you do , why exactly do you refuse to associate with a category of sinners and not with another or with a category of people commiting an abomination and not with another? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/10 "2004-07-05T16:34:09Z")
> [@brewster2](#): > > I’m not trying to get people angry Liar. Lying is addressed pretty early on with the Moses/Aaron leadership team as a violation of 9-11 rules about how to getalong with everyone. > [@brewster2](#): > > …but the bible clearly states… The Bible clearly states nothing. It is a collection of grammatically imperfect writings by mortal men which has been edited to suit political presures, translated numerous times, further edited and, in the case of the King James Version, pared down and rewritten into formal & archaic English. Any novel that has undergone such a tortured history would be barely recognizable compared to the original text–why anyone should assume The Bible offers anything other than a view of God’s Plan from 20,000 feet is beyond me. I think the basic idea of God’s intent can be discerned from what remains of the butchered written rendition of the ancient oral traditions that are the foundation of the Old Testament, but to say that “The Bible clearly states…” anything is meaningless because what it states today is not the same thing it stated back in the day. I’d suggest, for a better idea of what God thinks about homos & wankers is to see what He says about them as His incarnation as Jesus…oh wait, He doesn’t even address it. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/11 "2004-07-05T16:36:26Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Liar. Lying is addressed pretty early on with the Moses/Aaron leadership team as a violation of 9-11 rules about how to getalong with everyone. By 9-11 I am referring to a disputable number of items in no way directly associated with terrorism. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Eric\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de0a6/32.png) [@Eric\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric_II)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/12 "2004-07-05T16:42:22Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > And do you associate with liars (since they’re sinners, exactly like homosexuals) or with people who eat shrimps (since the bible says eating them is an abomination, exactly like homosexuality). ? SHRIMP??!! I always thought I was going to hell for masterbating. Now I gotta worry about this too? That reminds me of a cartoon I saw in Creem magazine many years ago. A bummed out Jimi Hendrix dressed like an angel was sitting on a cloud. He said, “Don’t ever go to heaven man, it’s the shits.” ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/13 "2004-07-05T16:43:46Z")
> [@](#): > > 1st Corinthians 6:9 1st Timothy 1:10. Was Paul adding new requirements to get into heaven? > [@](#): > > Where do you think the term Sodomy came from?The bible, Sodom and Gormorah. What did Abraham do when he found out Sodom was going to be destroyed? > [@](#): > > It’s wrong and I’m not a homophobe ether I treat homosexuals with respect as people but I do not associate with them or fornicators ether. Are you holier than them? Are you doing God’s work by condemning them? > [@](#): > > You can change I know because I was Bi-sexual when I was young.Sometimes the truth is hard for people to take. Do you think it is possible for every single gay person out there to transform into a heterosexual, if only they would try hard enough? > [@](#): > > read your bible. thank you Yes, because we clearly need to study hard to be on the same level as you :rolleyes: . I am both gay and christian. If I say “Jesus is Lord”, which 1 Corinthians 12:3 says I cannot say except by the Holy Spirit; and 2 Corinthians 1:22 says the Spirit is a deposit, gauranteeing what is to come, Yet I also affirm that I am gay, am I going to heaven, or hell? According to Paul, I am going to heaven because I have the Holy Spirit, and according to you, I am going to hell beacuse I am gay. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/14 "2004-07-05T16:51:12Z")
My signature speaks for itself. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/15 "2004-07-05T16:54:52Z")
First Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. You, Paul, and many others including me may think that they know what God wants, and even think that they can find in the Bible directions on what to do, but a dark glass can obscure much. We can’t be sure we have the right end of the stick no matter where we grip it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/16 "2004-07-05T16:56:08Z")
> [@brewster2](#): > > I’m not trying to get people angry Really? Why don’t I believe you? > [@](#): > > but the bible clearly states it’s wrong.1st Corinthians 6:9 …nor abusers of themselves with mankind shall inherit God’s kingdom. That’s a mistranslation. We’ve done sevearl threads about this very passage and I’ve analyzed the Greek _as nauseum_ in those threads. Here’s the short version of that analysis. The phrase your quotation translates as “nor abusers of themselves with mankind …” is actually a single word in Greek, [symbol]arsenokoiths[/symbol], an obsucre word whose exact meaning is unknown. It seems to have been coined by Paul himself. Itliterally transaltes to “male-bedder” but (for reasons I have expalined in detail in other threads. Just do a serach for “arsenokoites” and you’ll find them) this does not refer to homosexuals in general but is almost certainly a reference to pederasty. Male prostitute is another possibility, but I think unlikely given the way that _koitos_ was used in suffixes. (It specifically referred to the aggressive, penetrating partner in a sex act). I don’t have the time today to really give a detailed rehash of my argument but you can find it in other threads. You can even just google “arsenokoies” for that matter and find other analyses of it online. Suffice it to say that your translation is wrong. > [@](#): > > Also 1st Timothy 1:10. Another mistranslation. > [@](#): > > Where do you think the term Sodomy came from? The bible, Sodom and Gormorah. Incorrect. The word “sodomy” is not in the Bible. The association of Sodom and homosexuality is a laer, non-Biblical tradition. The sin of Sodm was not homosexuality but inhospitality. > [@](#): > > It’s wrong and I’m not a homophobe ether I treat homosexuals with respect as people but I do not associate with them or fornicators ether. Why is it that whenever anyone starts a sentence with “I’m not a **, but…", they will invariably follow that statement with something which proves that are indeed a "**.” > [@](#): > > Think about it God loves you but if your living the wrong lifestyle then you reap what you sow.You can change I know because I was Bi-sexual when I was young.Sometimes the truth is hard for people to take.Forget T.V preachers they are money grabers.They want to tell you when the "worlds"coming to an end then charge you $29.95 for the book to let you know.Read your bible. thank you 🙂 I’ve got news for you. You’re still bisexual and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have no interest in pursuing a discussion of what God thinks of homosexuality since I don’t believe in God anyway. I can tell you for a fact, though, that the _Bible_ says _nothing_ about it. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/17 "2004-07-05T17:03:47Z")
> [@brewster2](#): > > I treat homosexuals with respect as people but I do not associate with them or fornicators ether. Geesh. What did us fornicators do to get on your bad side? And, for the record: e·ther n. 1)Any of a class of organic compounds in which two hydrocarbon groups are linked by an oxygen atom. 2)A volatile, highly flammable liquid, C2H5OC2H5, derived from the distillation of ethyl alcohol with sulfuric acid and used as a reagent and solvent. It was formerly used as an anesthetic. Also called diethyl ether, ethyl ether. 3)The regions of space beyond the earth’s atmosphere; the heavens. 4)The element believed in ancient and medieval civilizations to fill all space above the sphere of the moon and to compose the stars and planets. 5)Physics. An all-pervading, infinitely elastic, massless medium formerly postulated as the medium of propagation of electromagnetic waves. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/18 "2004-07-05T17:06:26Z")
Why don’t you just go out and have all the hot gay sex you want, then ask for forgiveness from God? God forgives everything, right? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/19 "2004-07-05T17:07:56Z")
> [@Eric II](#): > > SHRIMP??!! > > I always thought I was going to hell for masterbating. Now I gotta worry about this too? > > That reminds me of a cartoon I saw in Creem magazine many years ago. A bummed out Jimi Hendrix dressed like an angel was sitting on a cloud. He said, “Don’t ever go to heaven man, it’s the shits.” Homosexual activity and eating shrimp are both considered the product of non-God-loving shellfish attitudes! 😉 Actually, there have been literally hundreds of discussions of the Biblical proscriptions generally understood as directed at gay sex and what they may have meant in context, over the last six years. I suggest browsing Great Debates’s back threads for some worthwhile reading. But the one point I’d make to **brewster** is what Jesus Christ Himself said about how to treat other people, as evidenced in the Two Great Commandments, the Golden Rule, the “Judge not” passage, and the Parable of the Sheep and Goats. At no point did he say “except gay men and lesbians” when he gave those commandments. Seems to me that your obligation is to live a life pleasing to Him, and let others try to do the same, without concerning yourself with what you deem their sins – the Holy Spirit is quite capable of convicting them of their sinfulness as and when He thinks it’s time, without your help. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644/20 "2004-07-05T17:13:52Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Just do a serach for “arsenokoites” and you’ll find them) Can’t. He ain’t payin.’ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-condemed-by-god/253644.md?page=2)