# Homosexuality: Is It a Sin
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [October 30, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786 "2009-10-30T23:23:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/21 "2009-10-30T23:46:18Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> The word “effeminate” is a euphemism for homosexual and thus would mean that even without the later phrase “homosexual offender” or “abusers of themselves” homosexuals not just male prostitutes are condemned.
Oh really, and how do you know this? How do you know that _back then_ the _implications_ of the words were, that were different from how they were actually used in writings (which is in large part how we learn what to translate them to). And how did you get this knowledge without it being let slipped out to scholars?
I suspect that your answer will either be “straight from the mouth of God, speaking to me in a literal audible voice in clear plain English”, or “straight from my ass”. Guess which one I think is more likely.
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/22 "2009-10-30T23:49:34Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> The word “effeminate” is a euphemism for homosexual and thus would mean that even without the later phrase “homosexual offender” or “abusers of themselves” homosexuals not just male prostitutes are condemned.
Maybe, I’m not a biblical scholar. I just don’t care about whether it’s a sin, since “sin” to be is just a word meaning “some (but not nearly all) of the most obviously bad stuff you can do, plus all this other stuff I don’t personally like”.
Can you please answer **Homebrew** ’s question, since IMO it’s the most relevant of the replies? If the answer is somewhere along the lines of “I don’t propose any action whatsoever against homosexuals, I just think that sinning is bad”, then why do you care about sins at all?
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/23 "2009-10-30T23:50:18Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> The word “effeminate” is a euphemism for homosexual and thus would mean that even without the later phrase “homosexual offender” or “abusers of themselves” homosexuals not just male prostitutes are condemned.
The word rendered as “effeminate” by the NIV is μαλακοὶ (malakoi), which just means “soft ones”. The Greeks had an abundance of words to describe homosexual activity, as various forms of male-male sex were practiced relatively widely. μαλακοὶ is not one of those words. It’s actually an early condemnation of the Pillsbury doughboy.
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/24 "2009-10-30T23:50:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> The word “effeminate” is a euphemism for homosexual and thus would mean that even without the later phrase “homosexual offender” or “abusers of themselves” homosexuals not just male prostitutes are condemned.
Cite?
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/25 "2009-10-30T23:50:30Z")
> [@begbert2](#):
>
> Oh really, and how do you know this? How do you know that _back then_ the _implications_ of the words were, that were different from how they were actually used in writings (which is in large part how we learn what to translate them to). And how did you get this knowledge without it being let slipped out to scholars?
>
> I suspect that your answer will either be “straight from the mouth of God, speaking to me in a literal audible voice in clear plain English”, or “straight from my ass”. Guess which one I think is more likely.
We can interprete the Bible in many ways. For instance unless you are a Young Earth Creationist, Christians interpert the Genesis Creation account in different ways and contexts. Similiarly in Classical times homosexuals were stereotyped as effeminate thus interperting through a semi-literal manner we come up with homosexual as nowhere else in the Bible is being a sissy condemned (indeed to many people Jesus Himself would be “effeminate”)
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/26 "2009-10-30T23:51:40Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#):
>
> Maybe, I’m not a biblical scholar. I just don’t care about whether it’s a sin, since “sin” to be is just a word meaning “some (but not nearly all) of the most obviously bad stuff you can do, plus all this other stuff I don’t personally like”.
>
> Can you please answer **Homebrew** ’s question, since IMO it’s the most relevant of the replies? If the answer is somewhere along the lines of “I don’t propose any action whatsoever against homosexuals, I just think that sinning is bad”, then why do you care about sins at all?
For your last question that is because I wish to turn people away from sinning.
---
### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/27 "2009-10-30T23:52:28Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> We can interprete the Bible in many ways. For instance unless you are a Young Earth Creationist, Christians interpert the Genesis Creation account in different ways and contexts. Similiarly in Classical times homosexuals were stereotyped as effeminate thus interperting through a semi-literal manner we come up with homosexual as nowhere else in the Bible is being a sissy condemned (indeed to many people Jesus Himself would be “effeminate”)
I have no idea what you’re trying to say now. Nor how this is supposed to jive with your absolute declaration two post back of what the absolute single correct interpretation of the word is.
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### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/28 "2009-10-30T23:53:38Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> For your last question that is because I wish to turn people away from sinning.
Focus on the drunks. It’s a much larger problem; more people to save there.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/29 "2009-10-30T23:54:05Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> The word “effeminate” is a euphemism for homosexual and thus would mean that even without the later phrase “homosexual offender” or “abusers of themselves” homosexuals not just male prostitutes are condemned.
I’ve a question.
You interpret the passage in question, seemingly, as referring to homosexuals. That homosexuals are condemned. That actually seems somewhat at odds with what i’ve generally seen as the position of Christians who consider homosexuality a problem, which is that homosexual acts are or may be sinful, but simply being a homosexual, in and of itself, is not.
To clarify your own particular position; do you believe that in Christianity is is homosexual acts that sins, or being a homosexual that is a sin?
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### Author:  [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/30 "2009-10-30T23:55:50Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#):
>
> The word translated as “homosexual offenders” in the NIV is ἀρσενοκοῖται ( **arse** nokoitai). The question of this word’s meaning has been asked on this board before: see [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318819) for some reasonable discussion.
Oh. Well then. Case closed. It means what we think it means.
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### Author:  [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/31 "2009-10-30T23:57:13Z")
But wait! You didn’t read the whole thing… “arse no koitai”. Ones who do not engage in coitus in the arse. It means the opposite of what we think!
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/32 "2009-10-30T23:57:23Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> For your last question that is because I wish to turn people away from sinning.
Yes, I know, and my question is why? I mean, that if the only reason you can come up with is because it’s a sin in you particular interpretation of your religion, that’s not a very convincing argument. I can come up with a bunch of reasons why killing people is generally a bad idea. Honoring your parents isn’t nearly as clear cut. Forbidding my slaves to work on the Sabbath seems perverse, and I’m damn sure not slaughtering every first born animal to the lord. I’m assuming you’re not following all the commandments either.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/33 "2009-10-30T23:57:42Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> We can interprete the Bible in many ways. For instance unless you are a Young Earth Creationist, Christians interpert the Genesis Creation account in different ways and contexts. Similiarly in Classical times homosexuals were stereotyped as effeminate thus interperting through a semi-literal manner we come up with homosexual as nowhere else in the Bible is being a sissy condemned (indeed to many people Jesus Himself would be “effeminate”)
Wait, in _Classical_ times homosexuals were stereotyped as effeminate? That seems surprising to me. I think i’m going to have to join the list of people after a cite.
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### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/34 "2009-10-30T23:59:01Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#):
>
> Yes, I know, and my question is why? I mean, that if the only reason you can come up with is because it’s a sin in you particular interpretation of your religion, that’s not a very convincing argument. I can come up with a bunch of reasons why killing people is generally a bad idea. Honoring your parents isn’t nearly as clear cut. Forbidding my slaves to work on the Sabbath seems perverse, and I’m damn sure not slaughtering every first born animal to the lord. I’m assuming you’re not following all the commandments either.
To be fair, he didn’t clearly state that he was among the set of people he wished to turn away from sinning. In fact, when you take into account that bit about casting the first stone…
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [October 31, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/35 "2009-10-31T00:02:03Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#):
>
> Wait, in _Classical_ times homosexuals were stereotyped as effeminate? That seems surprising to me. I think i’m going to have to join the list of people after a cite.
The Sacred Band of Thebes was a buncha sissies, dontcha know.
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [October 31, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/36 "2009-10-31T00:04:37Z")
Under the Law, yes, and there are penalties that will be paid as stated.
But under grace of Jesus:
[QUOTE=1 Corinthians 6:12]
“Everything is permissible for me”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”—but I will not be mastered by anything.
[/QUOTE]
As long as Jesus remains your Lord and master then you can do anything (though as stated in scripture it may not be beneficial).
My way of looking at it is don’t let the law get in the way of doing the will of God. The written code is replaced with God living in your heart.
IMHO God can use a person who has homosexual tendencies to reach people in that lifestyle with the Love of God and without condemnation - if that person is willing to surrender his life to Jesus.
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### Author:  [@Cort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cort)
#### Post date: [October 31, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/37 "2009-10-31T00:04:42Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> The word “effeminate” is a euphemism for homosexual and thus would mean that even without the later phrase “homosexual offender” or “abusers of themselves” homosexuals not just male prostitutes are condemned.
Bottom line: According to the Bible, God does indeed hate fags. Yep, God hates fags just like Yahweh hated fags before him and Allah hated fags after him, and the Mormons and the weird mind-head pyramid people who worship L. Ron Hubbard hate them today. In fact, I can’t think of a single religious text which doesn’t say something about how being gay sucks. Yeah, I phrased it that way deliberately. You’re not funny.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [October 31, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/38 "2009-10-31T00:05:31Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#):
>
> Wait, in _Classical_ times homosexuals were stereotyped as effeminate?
Yes; the [Sacred Band of Thebes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes)would beg to differ. To use one example.
EDIT: Bah; ninjaed by\*\* Gorsnak\*\*
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [October 31, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/39 "2009-10-31T00:10:05Z")
I question the assumption that Judeo-Christian conceptions of sin are the only valid ones.
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### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [October 31, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/40 "2009-10-31T00:11:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> I question the assumption that Judeo-Christian conceptions of sin are the only valid ones.
It’s probably a sin to believe in the Judeo-Christian conceptions of sin.
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