# Homosexuality: Is It a Sin
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [October 30, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786 "2009-10-30T23:23:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/101 "2009-11-01T02:24:51Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#):
>
> The casual approving of slavery is what’s bothering me with that commandment. But I’m sure you got that 🙂
:: shrug ::
It’s all fairy stories to me. Not to say there’s no good stuff in the Bible, but there’s crap too.
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/102 "2009-11-01T02:43:21Z")
> [@Xotan](#):
>
> [lots of stuff regarding interpretation of biblical verse snipped]
> In conclusion, I find the need to prevent others sinning to be arrogant and hypocritical in the extreme. I would expect no less from whited sepulchres. Motes and Beams mean anything?
It is hypocritical and arrogant. But to put it concisely: - even if it’s all literally the word of god - why the fuck should we care? God is not exactly a good example to follow as far as morals are concerned. Even the most basic rules in the commandments - like not killing - are completely disobeyed when god wants them to be disobeyed. God flagrantly orders people to kill children. God is a dick, and anyone who thinks our morals come from Him is mistaken.
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/103 "2009-11-01T02:45:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> :: shrug ::
>
> It’s all fairy stories to me. Not to say there’s no good stuff in the Bible, but there’s crap too.
Sure. The problem is that there still are people who for some reason take the bible seriously.
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### Author:  [@Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blut_Aus_Nord)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/104 "2009-11-01T02:48:35Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#):
>
> God flagrantly orders people to kill children.
More accurately, people _think_ God flagrantly orders them to kill children.
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/105 "2009-11-01T02:51:38Z")
> [@Chakra Nadmara](#):
>
> More accurately, people _think_ God flagrantly orders them to kill children.
Yeah. When I type the word “God” it’s generally a shorthand for “the literary character called the christian god”.
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/106 "2009-11-01T02:52:30Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#):
>
> “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.”
>
> Children still exist. Do you still think we should stone them to death if they misbehave?
I would be most interested in **Curtis** ’s reaction to this passage, which should be as relevant to him as the anti-homosexual passages are to our GBLT members.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/107 "2009-11-01T02:54:46Z")
For God’s sake, it’s from the Mosaic Law which NO LONGER applies to Christians. I cited only New Testament passages not OT ones on homosexuality.
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/108 "2009-11-01T02:59:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> For God’s sake, it’s from the Mosaic Law which NO LONGER applies to Christians. I cited only New Testament passages not OT ones on homosexuality.
A) What do you think about Jews. Mosaic law still applies to them, right?
B) What reason is there to trust a god that kills and maims and endorses genocide when he states he’s not really like that anymore?
C) Again, for the third time, can you name ANY reason except “god doesn’t like it” against homosexuality? I will accept “I personally think it’s icky”.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/109 "2009-11-01T03:07:26Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#):
>
> A) What do you think about Jews. Mosaic law still applies to them, right?
No, since everyone IMO should convert to Christanity, but I won’t force them or be one those fundamentalists who try to beat you over your head with Chick tracts.
> [@](#):
>
> B) What reason is there to trust a god that kills and maims and endorses genocide when he states he’s not really like that anymore?
He hasn’t repeated Sodom and Gomorrah anytime this century, has He?
> [@](#):
>
> C) Again, for the third time, can you name ANY reason except “god doesn’t like it” against homosexuality? I will accept “I personally think it’s icky”.
It’s not natural, other animals only do it rarely.
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### Author:  [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/110 "2009-11-01T03:09:58Z")
Other animals also rarely wear clothes and are really humiliated when we make them do so. \ No comment on the divinity of Paul?
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/111 "2009-11-01T03:16:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> No, since everyone IMO should convert to Christanity, but I won’t force them or be one those fundamentalists who try to beat you over your head with Chick tracts.
OK fine, I’ll let you fight it out with the Jews.
> [@](#):
>
> He hasn’t repeated Sodom and Gomorrah anytime this century, has He?
So he didn’t hit you yesterday? Oh he must be a great guy.
> [@](#):
>
> It’s not natural, other animals only do it rarely.
First of all, we don’t eat raw meat. Or live in trees. Or fling poo at each other. Or eat each others’ kids. “Natural” is not a good way to judge what’s good for us. Also, as far as I know, homosexual activity amongst animals, is pretty much at the same percentage as amongst humans, with Bonobos - one of our closest relatives - having significantly more homosexual encounters than us\*.
- [Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals)
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/112 "2009-11-01T03:22:42Z")
ETA: Bonobos are pretty much the most peaceful great apes you can find. And they’ll fuck anyone in sight.
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### Author:  [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/113 "2009-11-01T03:34:28Z")
> [@Zsofia](#):
>
> Other animals also rarely wear clothes and are really humiliated when we make them do so. \ No comment on the divinity of Paul?
Inspiration!
[http://tinypic.com/r/25rzbzq/4](http://tinypic.com/r/25rzbzq/4)
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/114 "2009-11-01T03:52:37Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> It’s not natural, other animals only do it rarely.
Animals never talk. Or solve differential equations. It’s not natural.
And actually, animals perform same sex sexual acts all the time. Nothing rare about it.
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### Author:  [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/115 "2009-11-01T04:05:18Z")
The rate of same-sex directed sexual behaviors in chordates is about 10%. Right this minute I’m watching a boy cat hump another boy cat. They’re brothers, too.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/116 "2009-11-01T04:07:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Animals never talk. Or solve differential equations. It’s not natural.
>
> And actually, animals perform same sex sexual acts all the time. Nothing rare about it.
As Curtis was chastised earlier in this thread for making assertions without citations, I think it meet to supply some backup for that lack paragraph.
[Here’s a wikipeidia article to start. I’d do more if I weren’t so freaking lazy.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals)
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/117 "2009-11-01T04:13:07Z")
> [@susan](#):
>
> The rate of same-sex directed sexual behaviors in chordates is about 10%. Right this minute I’m watching a boy cat hump another boy cat. They’re brothers, too.
Were I a fundamentalist, I expect I would explain animal sexuality and animal incest (though the latter is a fairly meaningless term) by blaming it on the corruption of the natural world precipitated by the fall of man. In the eyes of some Xtians, animal behaviors such as predation and sexual “immorality” did not exist before Adam ate that of the Tree of Knowledge of God & Evil. References to the lion lying down with the lamb (without having the lamb as a snack) after the return of Christ are explained as the innocent, pre-fall world being restored; I’m sure animal homosexuality would be too.
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### Author:  [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/118 "2009-11-01T04:20:12Z")
Dammit. Beaten to the wiki and the pointing out of the cites in it.
Bah-leted.
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/119 "2009-11-01T04:39:33Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> He hasn’t repeated Sodom and Gomorrah anytime this century, has He?
I’m going to go a bit further than my previous reply and state this:
The fundamentalist christians who claim that just the last couple of years god has been actively drowning people by the millions have a lot more scripture backing them up than you do. I’m sympathetic towards you since you seem to have the inner morality and decency not to believe that a moral god would do that. My point is that relying on a god concept for your morality is basically declaring yourself incapable of making moral choices. And if you really believe you are incapable of making moral choices, how can you ever make a decision about the morality of following any god?
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### Author:  [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-it-a-sin/515786/120 "2009-11-01T05:19:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> Were I a fundamentalist, I expect I would explain animal sexuality and animal incest (though the latter is a fairly meaningless term) by blaming it on the corruption of the natural world precipitated by the fall of man. In the eyes of some Xtians, animal behaviors such as predation and sexual “immorality” did not exist before Adam ate that of the Tree of Knowledge of God & Evil. References to the lion lying down with the lamb (without having the lamb as a snack) after the return of Christ are explained as the innocent, pre-fall world being restored; I’m sure animal homosexuality would be too.
Isn’t all that Adam and Eve business in the OLD Testament? I’m given to understand that all of that went out the window with the new one.
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