# Homosexuality Is More Accepted In Canada than France? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973 "2014-02-10T14:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/1 "2014-02-10T14:48:13Z")
**“Homosexuality is more accepted in Canada than France?”** I didn’t believe it myself. But [here](http://staffanspersonalityblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/pew-homosexuality.png%3Fw%3D450%26h%3D330) is the graph. 80% in Canada. 77% in France. Forgive me if it is just a cliché. But isn’t France a very “liberal” society, while Canada is more, forgive the term, “traditional” (at least as compared to France)? Okay, you want some more direct evidence of what I am talking about. France gave the world [The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_rights_of_man_and_citizen). And my favorite line from that document has always been: > [@](#): > > 4.Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else… So what am I missing here? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/2 "2014-02-10T14:52:12Z")
A 3% difference between two very high grades is not something worth starting a GD thread about. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/3 "2014-02-10T14:53:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > A 3% difference between two very high grades is not something worth starting a GD thread about. I think you’re missing my point:). My point is, it should be **“99.99999%”** in France. No, they are close. But they shouldn’t even be that. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/4 "2014-02-10T14:55:16Z")
I’m a little surprised to hear that you consider Canadians ‘traditional.’ Admittedly, I never really considered us in comparison to France in that respect before. There’s a huge range of attitudes among different Canadians and different parts of Canada, but in general I think of us as more socially liberal than the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/5 "2014-02-10T14:58:44Z")
> [@Jim B.](#): > > So what am I missing here? That some people think homosexuality injures others, in the form of harming society. It’s balderdash, but they believe it. > [@Jim\_B](#): > > I think you’re missing my point:). My point is, it should be **“99.99999%”** in France. No, they are close. But they shouldn’t even be that. Even though it’s nowhere near that high anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/6 "2014-02-10T15:02:09Z")
First, that’s not a big difference. Second, France has a deucent sized Muslim community as well as a bunch of conservative rural Catholics. Third, Canada has had gay marriage for longer. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/7 "2014-02-10T15:27:00Z")
As a UK citizen not many of those figures surprise me. There are plenty of countries in the 75-80% acceptance range that I’d have probably guessed correctly and I don’t really think that you’d find much practical difference in one country over another. I assume in my head that there is going to be at least 20% in all countries opposed by nature of old-age and religious intransigence so those doing substantially more than 80% are doing really well. I think the one that was surprisingly high was Spain (88%) but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Benelux and scandinavian nations were equally high. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/8 "2014-02-10T16:00:40Z")
I take it this is coming from this survey [http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/](http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/) You can see Canada moves from 70% (2007) acceptance to 80% +/- 3.7 in 2013, while France drops from 83% (2007) to 77 +/- 3.6 in 2013. With that kind of overlap the difference is almost meaning less. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/9 "2014-02-10T16:10:07Z")
I would have expected acceptance of gay rights in Canada to be much higher than France. So, I share the OP’s surprise, but for the opposite reason. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/10 "2014-02-10T16:11:23Z")
I’m not sure what’s so special about France. The only thing that comes to mind is the stereotype of French men being feminine, and hence gay, so they must be more accepting of gays there than most other places, or something. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/11 "2014-02-10T16:26:17Z")
Also just relying on a survey means you must allow for an element of error (which could be as much as 3%.) Also I’d rely much more on what laws are passed by a conutry rather than the opinion of a few people in the street. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/12 "2014-02-10T16:31:09Z")
France really isn’t that liberal. The French are very much economic liberals, at least from a US point of view, and less ass-corked than Americans when it comes to sexuality, but they’re not liberal _per se_. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/13 "2014-02-10T16:34:31Z")
Perhaps it is because France has a national identity unusually identified with heterosexual behavior? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/14 "2014-02-10T16:38:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > France really isn’t that liberal. The French are very much economic liberals, at least from a US point of view, and less ass-corked than Americans when it comes to sexuality, but they’re not liberal _per se_. Yeah, this. I think some people (Americans, heck, probably us Brits too) have this idea that anything goes in louche France, where politicians bedhop constantly and live-in lovers get to be called ‘First Mistress’. None of this necessarily translates to liberal acceptance of homosexuality, or gets over the fact that France is still a Catholic country. Still, 77% ain’t bad! I’m still moving to Spain though. 88%! They must be really trying to hard to make up for the inquisition!. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/15 "2014-02-10T17:08:26Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I’m still moving to Spain though. 88%! They must be really trying to hard to make up for the inquisition!. If so, they aren’t doing that well at it: PEW found in 2008 that [46% of Spaniards had a negative view of Jews, and 52% had a negative view of Muslims](http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/262.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/16 "2014-02-10T18:35:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I would have expected acceptance of gay rights in Canada to be much higher than France. So, I share the OP’s surprise, but for the opposite reason. I agree. While France might be considered liberal in some respects, there is a culture of intolerance that for years has discriminated against and ghettofied north African immigrants, Muslims, and other minorities, resulting in some notable incidents of civil unrest like the riots of 2005. And as someone already said, the Catholic population wouldn’t be generally receptive to gay rights, either. Taken together, I’m surprised that acceptance of gays in France is as high as it is. Interestingly, that same culture of intolerance can be seen in some respects in Quebec – directed against Muslims and against the English community, for example – reflecting a francophone obsession with “cultural purity” and running distinctly counter to the strong social liberalism found in the rest of Canada. Gay marriage is now established in Quebec, but though they allowed civil unions before that, it took a court case to declare the Quebec civil law banning gay marriage to be unconstitutional, and then an appellate court ruling upholding the original decision when it was challenged by a wingnut “Catholic rights” association. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/17 "2014-02-10T18:47:18Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I think you’re missing my point:). My point is, it should be **“99.99999%”** in France. No, they are close. But they shouldn’t even be that. You know, positive stereotypes are still stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/18 "2014-02-10T19:16:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know, positive stereotypes are still stereotypes. Not really, and I’m responding to that because I myself have made some broad generalizations. Stereotypes are an unfortunate form of discrimination when unfairly applied to an individual. When applied to a large group, they are not “stereotypes” but statistical properties of the cohort, and may very well be factual. Such properties are intrinsic to the description of any culture. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/19 "2014-02-10T19:18:44Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Not really, and I’m responding to that because I myself have made some broad generalizations. Stereotypes are an unfortunate form of discrimination when unfairly applied to an individual. When applied to a large group, they are not “stereotypes” but statistical properties of the cohort, and may very well be factual. Such properties are intrinsic to the description of any culture. Yea, but if you say 99.999% of a group conforms to a stereotype, then you aren’t really leaving much room not to apply it to an individual. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973/20 "2014-02-10T19:29:03Z")
Sure, but the 99.999… is just a made-up number. If it was an actual measured percentage derived from a statistically significant sample, then you have yourself a fact, like it or not. The stereotyping here is in assuming without basis that such a number is correct. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-more-accepted-in-canada-than-france/680973.md?page=2)