# homosexuality is not normal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328 "2007-03-02T18:43:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/21 "2007-03-02T19:08:12Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] why? because the most primal “task” for mankind (and other species) is to reproduce and increase [/QUOTE] “I do not think that word means what you think it does.” :dubious: Since when does normal mean “something necessary for the species to survive?” In that case, cities, cars, education, travel, television, computers, and Dingdongs are all not normal. Altruism and self-sacrifice would not be normal. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/22 "2007-03-02T19:11:12Z")
Have you had sex, **Wildfire**? Was your motivation for sex pleasure/intamacy or child-bearing? If you’ve had sex yourself for any reason other than reproduction, you’re a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/23 "2007-03-02T19:11:57Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] No, I think the OP has a point. … As any four-year-old (and the OP) will tell you, a penis is only for making wee-wee, and making a baby in a mommy’s tummy. [/QUOTE] Not to mention that people can get to old to make babies. My wife, who has borne four children, is now too old to have any more. So, I should stop having sex with her, and find some fertile 30-year-old with who I can make more babies. I’m just wasting my time with my wife, since I’m still capable (I think) of procreating. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/24 "2007-03-02T19:12:03Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] my point is that the cultural/political science have been the predominant tool to understand this issue. What about natural science? the understanding of h. have been dominated by people who have advocated strongly for gay rights etc. [/QUOTE] OK, what about natural science backs up your claim? You have yet to provide anything beyond your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/25 "2007-03-02T19:15:31Z")
on the basic level: sexuality excist only for breeding-purposes ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/26 "2007-03-02T19:18:27Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] on the basic level: sexuality excist only for breeding-purposes [/QUOTE] Again, do _you_ have sex only for “breeding purposes?” ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/27 "2007-03-02T19:19:06Z")
There’s more to reproduction than breeding. Maybe it’s useful to a population to have a certain percentage of adults that will not produce offspring of their own, and instead focus on other community tasks like hunting, gathering, and helping to raise children? ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/28 "2007-03-02T19:19:24Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Again, do _you_ have sex only for “breeding purposes?” [/QUOTE] no, just for joy actually ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/29 "2007-03-02T19:21:48Z")
what would a person educated in biology and reproduction say about this? from a scientific viewpoint ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/30 "2007-03-02T19:25:04Z")
Wildfire, I’m trying to give you the benefit of doubt here, thinking you may not be fluent in English and the connotations affixed with certain terms. When you use the word “normal,” the dictionary definition of “standard, common, conventional, mainstream, common, etc.” **does** apply. However, to most people, “not normal,” “abnormal,” etc. implies that there is something **wrong** or **bad** about it. And the casual, tossed-off brevity of your OP doesn’t give people a whole lot of reason to believe you aren’t just picking a fight. If this is a serious post and you’re not just stirring up shit, I’d recommend you put more effort into making a point that you know is going to attract the ire of the majority of this board. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/31 "2007-03-02T19:25:09Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] no, just for joy actually [/QUOTE] Well, that’s the same reason gays have sex! You’re no better or worse than them! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/32 "2007-03-02T19:25:59Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] because the most primal “task” for mankind (and other species) is to reproduce and increase [/quote] No, the task you’re thinking of would be “survive,” which gays and lesbians can do as well as anybody else. The OP is correct that homosexuality is not normal, at least, from the standpoint that a relatively small portion of the population is homosexual. But so what? > [@](#): > > we must try to diverse the political/cultural side from the topic of sexual orientation. To what end? It probably can’t be done ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/33 "2007-03-02T19:26:37Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] what would a person educated in biology and reproduction say about this? from a scientific viewpoint [/QUOTE] For your answer, **Wildfire** MM\*\*, see my above post. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/34 "2007-03-02T19:28:13Z")
> [@Wildfire\*\*MM](#): > > what would a person educated in biology and reproduction say about this? from a scientific viewpoint They say, e.g., [this](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3778/is_199701/ai_n8754737): > [@](#): > > Homosexuality occurs in a substantial minority of humans. Although the exact percentage is unknown, it appears to be 10% or less (Kinsey, Pomeroy, & Martin, 1948; Kinsey, Pomeroy, Martin, & Gebhard, 1953; Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, & Michaels, 1994; Ruse, 1988). Because human sexual orientation is overwhelmingly heterosexual, human societies have struggled to understand minority sexual orientations, resulting in societal responses ranging from incorporation to ostracism (Ruse, 1988). In the 20th century, homosexuality had been viewed variously as a pathological condition in need of treatment (Ruse, 1988), a sexual choice equally as valid as heterosexuality (Ruse, 1988; Baumrind, 1995), a normal variation in human sexuality, and as resulting from an inborn biological difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals (Hamer, Hu, Magnuson, Hu, & Pattatucci, 1993; LeVay, 1991; LeVay & Hamer, 1994: Ruse, 1988; but see Byne, 1995; Byne & Parsons, 1993; Swaab, Gooren, & Hofman, 1995 for critiques of this view). This debate has produced no clear consensus about the nature of homosexuality, appropriate societal response to homosexuality, or even what information is relevant to understanding human sexual orientation. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/35 "2007-03-02T19:28:52Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Well, that’s the same reason gays have sex! You’re no better or worse than them! [/QUOTE] Well it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that gays never have joyless sex … but a lot of straight sex is joyless too. ☹ (Not that that has anything to do with whether “abnormal” sex is necessarily wrongful.) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/36 "2007-03-02T19:28:54Z")
By the way, there’s been about 100 years of any sort of gay rights advocacy in Euro-American cultures. All the rest has been pretty much executions and asylums. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/37 "2007-03-02T19:29:27Z")
My last post in this nonsense thread will be to point out that [homosexuality is not unknown in the animal world.](http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2002-06-10/591.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/38 "2007-03-02T19:32:17Z")
Seems to me most of what we do is for personal survival, with reproduction being a minor instinctive imperative we get around to when we have the time. Since stress is detrimental to personal survival, we pursue activities that relieve stress. Sex reduces stress. Therefore sex is more important than reproduction to the individual and thus more “normal”. Using capital letters and standard punctuation, though, is a mere hobby. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/39 "2007-03-02T19:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] what would a person educated in biology and reproduction say about this? from a scientific viewpoint [/QUOTE] One a person educated in biology would _not_ say is that humans or any other species has a “task” to reproduce. Evolution has no directed goals. A person educated in biology would also tell you that homosexuality is found in many other species besides homo sapiens. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328/40 "2007-03-02T19:44:44Z")
**Wildfire** MM\*\*, this is a Forum for debate. So far, you have posted a declaration of little substance (and less coherence) and failed to actually support your position other than in a rather primitive semantic argument. If you do not post an actual issue to debate very soon, I am simply going to close this thread. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-not-normal/394328.md?page=3)