# Homosexuality is 'unnatural' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031 "2013-07-20T13:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![FrederickJones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/43a26b/32.png) [@FrederickJones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrederickJones)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/281 "2014-11-06T14:06:40Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > The most laughable thing about all this, from my perspective, is the same folks preaching about “ **unnatural** ” this or that pray to the “ **supernatural** ”. > > There’s \*\*natural \*\*and **artificial** , in terms of one is found in nature and one has to be constructed. This doesn’t really apply here, because homosexuals are found naturally occurring in the world, just like heterosexuals. You want to talk about homosexual feelings, that boils down to chemistry, biology, and physical attraction, which are naturally occurring processes. So naturally occurring, in fact, that attempts to suppress them artificially end in failure. > > There’s natural, meaning “How God intended”, \*but that’s not actually natural, now is it? \*That’s supernatural. And there’s not a shred of evidence supporting such a hypothesis. If it were truly “unnatural” then this supposed God figure wouldn’t have had to step in and go “No, no, don’t do this”. It means some people are naturally inclined to partake in such behaviors and experience those feelings. It wouldn’t require a hidden deity figure telling people to stop doing it if it weren’t something people did all on their own, with no outside help. > > Then we talk about natural as in _“how I want things to be”_, which isn’t what natural means. In fact, it means the opposite. This kind of “natural” is the kind of natural which says men and women are required to suppress their natural instincts to mate until they get married, only marry the opposite sex, and only have vaginal penetrative sex, and only with their chosen mate, until they die. In other words, deny your natural impulses, deny your natural impulses again, deny your natural impulses a third time, and deny those same natural impulses for the rest of your life. Furthermore, impose these denials on others, not just yourself, because it’s not bad enough you’re a chastity fetishist, you demand that everyone else be as well. You establish this tradition through the imposition of artificial laws, artificial punishments, and shunning those who are different from you, in order to achieve a decidedly artificial level of homogeneity throughout human society. > > Completely unnatural, as evolution simply cannot happen in a homogenous environment. The entire process of natural selection breaks down when the species is precisely the same. Culture is much the same way- there is no advancement of culture, or music, or art, or language, if everyone behaves entirely the same way. In fact, this entire phenomenon of religion wouldn’t exist at all if everyone thought the same way. Every modern religion began with someone having a different and new idea that went against traditional values and the opinions of the majority. > > The ultimate irony is that in order for some to impose their artificial and unnatural standards upon others, and spread their artificial abstinence and artificial chastity and artificial monogamy, is that they end up arguing about how “unnatural” a natural process is. A process that exists whether there is an imposition of artificial religious values upon a person or not. Whether that person is gay or straight, their natural desires exist regardless of the artificial boundaries imposed on them by their adherence to these cultural mores. They don’t shut off. This is why people continue “sinning” even after converting and wanting to follow the path provided for them by these artificial superstitions, because in spite of societal pressure, in spite of repeated conditioning, in spite of being taught that natural things are unnatural, and in spite of the square pegs of the world sincerely trying to fit neatly in the round holes provided for them by religion, they continue to behave in their natural manner, or they continue to desire those things which they are told are wrong. Even if they tell themselves it is wrong, and even if they believe it, they still do it, or still think about it, and still want to do it. > > That is the “natural” desire within oneself asserting itself over the completely baseless and artificial limitations imposed on us by people who want to remake the natural world in their supernatural image. > > If \*\*anyone \*\*around here is “unnatural”, it’s those people who cannot seem to fathom what the word natural actually _means_, and go completely out of their way to denounce, deny, and demonize everything that is natural and try to replace it with their artificial values, from their man-made book of fabricated fairy tales about a supernatural God crafting the world by artificial means in ways that defy the laws of the natural world. > > Scientists, on the other hand, have been able to explain the universe as a series of processes which are natural, and neither artificial or supernatural. And that natural explanation requires a lot fewer miraculous and supernatural interventions by an invisible God of the gaps, constantly intruding into the universe and fixing that which was designed correctly the first time yet still needed fixing for some reason. > > The whole natural argument is so entirely backwards coming from people who believe in the supernatural. Their world is one that doesn’t keep on spinning unless there’s a man in the clouds making it happen. It is a universe of intercessory prayer and miracles and revelations and prophets and covenants, a universe which if represented by a clock, was missing all the gears, and required a hidden magical man in order to keep the hands pointed at the correct time. > > The actual universe requires no hidden mover, and the gears function entirely without intervention. Otherwise, the natural processes that have been happening for the past several billion years would have stopped and we wouldn’t be here at all. > > What baffles me is that people believe in a hidden magical man who created people using flawless magic, but he made them in such a way that they behaved contrary to how he wanted them to behave, and then in his infinite wisdom decided he must punish those creatures he made for behaving exactly as he designed them to do. > > Something about that seems decidedly unnatural to me. I just can’t fathom a flawless being somehow finding his perfect creations to be anything less than what he hoped they’d be. > > Imagining a God who made people lust for one another in ways he didn’t intend, and then gets upset at them for it, is imagining a toy maker who makes broken toys and then yells at the toys for being broken. It is imagining a psychopath as your designer, and a retarded one at that. This is in response to your debate about homo and hetero SEXUALITY. Every word you uttered in your thesis is related to why we must continue to fight the Atheistic agenda. WHY? Because few if any atheists are against pre, post, and extra marital sex OF ANY KIND. That is not only a threat to marriage, it’s a threat to humankind. Without marriage producing children we cease to exist. Now let’s not even debate about over population. How would you feel if half of that population had the diseases you mentioned? We are headed in that direction. :eek: :eek: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![FrederickJones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/43a26b/32.png) [@FrederickJones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrederickJones)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/282 "2014-11-06T14:07:42Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Dear lord, he’s copy-pasting. That was funny! 🙂 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/283 "2014-11-06T14:10:51Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Dear lord, he’s copy-pasting. Not only that, but he’s copy-pasting criticism of _post-marital sex_! I thought I’d heard it all from the wingnut crowd, but opposing sex after marriage is definitely new to me! ---
**Author:** ![FrederickJones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/43a26b/32.png) [@FrederickJones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrederickJones)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/284 "2014-11-06T14:12:17Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > Lesbianism is next to godliness. Well in a way you are right, lesbians do get less sexual disease than heterosexuals. There do happen to be a lot more heteros though, honey. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/285 "2014-11-06T14:12:59Z")
> [@FrederickJones](#): > > This is in response to your debate about homo and hetero SEXUALITY. > > Every word you uttered in your thesis is related to why we must continue to fight the Atheistic agenda. WHY? > > Because few if any atheists are against pre, post, and extra marital sex OF ANY KIND. I’m sorry, what does this even mean? I have no problem with extramarital sex, because it’s none of my business what other people do. > [@](#): > > That is not only a threat to marriage, it’s a threat to humankind. Without marriage producing children we cease to exist. Actually, premarital sex has this unfortunate way of sometimes producing children regardless of how those involved happen to think about having children. What, do you think a priest has to ordain a marriage before a woman’s uterus drops egg cells? (Wouldn’t be the dumbest thing a conservative has said about female anatomy recently.) > [@](#): > > Now let’s not even debate about over population. How would you feel if half of that population had the diseases you mentioned? > > We are headed in that direction. We are? Judging from the CDC’s figures, the only group for which STD prevalence is rising is gay men (a group which, historically, has been fairly stable in population). Citation needed. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/286 "2014-11-06T14:14:12Z")
> [@FrederickJones](#): > > Without marriage producing children we cease to exist. We don’t need marriage to produce children. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/287 "2014-11-06T14:17:27Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > We don’t need marriage to produce children. Dodos didn’t marry. You don’t see any dodos around, do you? QED ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/288 "2014-11-06T16:49:33Z")
You know who else you don’t see around anymore? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/289 "2014-11-06T17:40:19Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > You know who else you don’t see around anymore? Dodo Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/290 "2014-11-06T17:58:18Z")
> [@FrederickJones](#): > > This is in response to your debate about homo and hetero SEXUALITY. > > Every word you uttered in your thesis is related to why we must continue to fight the Atheistic agenda. WHY? > > Because few if any atheists are against pre, post, and extra marital sex OF ANY KIND. Well, that’s simply not true. The vast majority of atheists are against rape and child molestation, for example. > [@](#): > > That is not only a threat to marriage, it’s a threat to humankind. Without marriage producing children we cease to exist. That doesn’t make any sense at all. Every other animal on this planet seems to reproduce just fine without marriage. And marriage itself is a limiter on fertility, not an enhancer. A man observing traditional matrimonial monogamy is going to be able to impregnate a single woman, at most, every nine months. A man with absolutely no regard for monogamy theoretically have a dozen women pregnant at the same time, or more. > [@](#): > > Now let’s not even debate about over population. How would you feel if half of that population had the diseases you mentioned? Nobody mentioned any diseases… ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/291 "2014-11-06T18:35:16Z")
The few reservations I had about gay marriage are easily nagated by the fact that so many hetero sexual couples marry with no intention of raisng children. As far as natural or not natural. If 10% or so of the population are born gay I would think you would have to accept it as natural. ``` I tend to think of it as a genetic defect only because gays don't procreate normally, but thats not to say that contibutions made by gays to society have not greatly enhanced the advancement of mankind in general and may have indirectly contributed to our successful evolution. I think gays have established themselves as an important and viable part of society. ``` ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/292 "2014-11-06T18:39:14Z")
I’m an attractive woman who’s never had kids. There are those who would call that unnatural. I’ve had the means and opportunity, but never had them for a variety of reasons. So really, the “unnatural” argument doesn’t butter any parsnips with me. _shrug_ BTW, fellow Atheists, I’ve updated the Atheistic Agenda based on last week’s discussion notes and uploaded it to the usual share drive. Take a look and let me know if I’ve left anything out. See you at next week’s meeting! It’s a covered dish! P.S. It’s BYOB, and please keep orgy-related activities in the workout room of the clubhouse. The mats have been cleaned and are available for use. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/293 "2014-11-06T18:43:36Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I’m an attractive woman who’s never had kids. How _you_ doin’? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/294 "2014-11-06T19:25:42Z")
> [@FrederickJones](#): > > That was funny! 🙂 🙂 🙂 Copy and paste that again and you will not enjoy what follows. Great debates is for debating, not repeating. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/295 "2014-11-06T20:04:06Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > BTW, fellow Atheists, I’ve updated the Atheistic Agenda based on last week’s discussion notes and uploaded it to the usual share drive. Take a look and let me know if I’ve left anything out. See you at next week’s meeting! It’s a covered dish! P.S. It’s BYOB, and please keep orgy-related activities in the workout room of the clubhouse. The mats have been cleaned and are available for use. Dear Ms. Bunny, I have reviewed your updates to the Athiestic Agenda™ for next week – great job as usual, but I’m concerned that it’s getting a little long. I think we all understand the basics – the importance of converting pre-schoolers to homosexuality and so forth, but is it really necessary to keep rehashing the basics? Maybe we should just try to focus on what’s new each week, like our successful field trip last Thursday when we took the entire Monastery of the Holy Resurrection to Juicy Lucy’s 4Play Lounge and at least half those poor repressed Benedictines became impassioned atheists right there on the spot. So maybe let’s try to stick to current events like that miraculous conversion, and keep it short and sweet so all us pre-, post-, non-, and extra-marital atheists can get out there on the workout mats and do the Devil’s work. BTW, may I call you “Grumpy” in future correspondence? It seems so much less formal. Best atheistic regards, Wolf P.S.- can you please clarify whether “BYOB” means “bring your own boyfriend”? Or is that only for the gays? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/296 "2014-11-06T20:30:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > P.S.- can you please clarify whether “BYOB” means “bring your own boyfriend”? Or is that only for the gays? Please note that the gay delegation will be having our annual “Ways to Overthrow Western Civilization” meeting/brunch, so the bring your own boyfriend portion will need to moved to next months meeting. Regards, Antinor01 - VP of the speaks for all gays everywhere subcommittee. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/297 "2014-11-06T20:35:14Z")
And to whoever issued the invites to the Log Cabin Republicans for last month’s get-together? Not funny! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/298 "2014-11-06T20:36:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And to whoever issued the invites to the Log Cabin Republicans for last month’s get-together? > Not funny! Yeah, man. Those guys are _freaks_. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/299 "2014-11-06T22:00:19Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > You know who else you don’t see around anymore? God ? ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031/300 "2014-11-07T04:06:32Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I’m an attractive woman who’s never had kids. There are those who would call that unnatural. I’ve had the means and opportunity, but never had them for a variety of reasons. > > So really, the “unnatural” argument doesn’t butter any parsnips with me. > > _shrug_ > > BTW, fellow Atheists, I’ve updated the Atheistic Agenda based on last week’s discussion notes and uploaded it to the usual share drive. Take a look and let me know if I’ve left anything out. See you at next week’s meeting! It’s a covered dish! P.S. It’s BYOB, and please keep orgy-related activities in the workout room of the clubhouse. The mats have been cleaned and are available for use. 😃 > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > How _you_ doin’? 😃 By coincidence, just after coming across this thread I found this stored on my youtube.c om account: [Get Educated About Homosexuality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQSx3OCrXQ&list=PL9c-na_Tn1Un7eCHifPJqfghsBGU3IO-P&index=4) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-is-unnatural/664031.md?page=16)