# Homosexuality propaganda. Is there anything to it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2016, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324 "2016-10-22T11:50:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/81 "2016-11-01T17:18:36Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Actually, the bible prohibits only sex between two men. It expressly permits threesomes involving two women as long as the women are not sisters, and it is silent on two women together with no man. I don’t know whether the writers of the bible never conceived of sex that didn’t have a penis somewhere, or if it was a “wink-wink, nudge-nudge” thing, that when a man had a number of wives, they kept one another satisfied because clearly the man couldn’t do it all himself, but no one wanted to admit that, so it didn’t get committed to writing. Nitpick: you are correct that the Old Testament forbids, or at least mentions, only male-to-male homosexual behavior. The New Testament also forbids lesbian sex, or at least mentions it as a sin. I suspect the reason for the mention in the OT was that female sexual orientation wasn’t considered a thing. Women were given in marriage, and they produced children. That’s what female sexuality was for. It wouldn’t have occurred to ask them what they wanted in a sex partner. And correct me if I am not mistaken, but I believe there is an OT stricture that says, if a man takes another wife, he may not reduce his first wife’s food, clothing, or marital rights. So there was at least a nod at the idea that a husband can’t leave his wives too horny. FWIW. Solomon supposedly had 300 wives and 700 concubines, but that is mentioned in more or less a condemnatory way, mostly because he entered into those marriages to consolidate his political position with other nations, and it led him to abandon the exclusive worship of Yahweh. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/82 "2016-11-01T20:18:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > As far as I can tell, the people who think it’s bad for a child to become gay are trying to protect said child from people who think it’s bad for a child to become gay. i.e. themselves. > > They care enough to try to protect the child from their own prejudices, but apparently not enough to drop the prejudices. > > Weird. I’m as pro-gay as any, but I don’t think this is a fair characterization at all. Assume this parent lives in a place in which gays are widely hated and persecuted by society. Given a choice, that parent would rationally prefer that their child not be gay, even assuming that parent had no prejudices whatsoever against homosexuality. Why? Because that parent would know the gay child would have to put up with all sorts of prejudice and hatred that the non-gay child would avoid. There is no upside to that, only a downside (assuming one is totally indifferent as to the relative merits of homosexuality vs. heterosexuality). Of course, parents don’t have a choice: kids will have the orientation they have. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/83 "2016-11-02T00:03:32Z")
> [@alexidsa](#): > > . . . that’s a poor argument for a homophobe believing in homosexuality propaganda. Could you provide an example of “homosexual propaganda”? Aside from asserting that homosexuals are human and deserving of the same respect of other humans with a freedom to live their lives without harassment, I am having trouble recalling any actual propaganda from the homosexual community. Individuals may have promoted certain approaches to life, as have heterosexuals such as Hugh Hefner and Larry Flynt–and I do not recall anyone regarding their efforts as “heterosexual propaganda.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/84 "2016-11-02T01:44:44Z")
Can we get an example of this alleged propaganda to see what the big deal is? I’m why-curious. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/85 "2016-11-02T02:21:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nitpick: you are correct that the Old Testament forbids, or at least mentions, only male-to-male homosexual behavior. The New Testament also forbids lesbian sex, or at least mentions it as a sin. > > Regards, > Shodan Nitpick: I’m Jewish. When I say “bible,” I mean the Tanakh. It’s what you call the “Old Testament,” but that term is meaningless to me. And again, the bible **expressly permits** threesomes consisting of a man and two women, provided the women are not sisters. The whole point of mentioning it is to forbid it if the women are sisters, because sometimes a man married sisters (Jacob did). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/86 "2016-11-02T14:02:26Z")
If by “threesome” you mean polygamy, sure. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/87 "2016-11-02T22:50:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And correct me if I am not mistaken, but I believe there is an OT stricture that says, if a man takes another wife, he may not reduce his first wife’s food, clothing, or marital rights. So there was at least a nod at the idea that a husband can’t leave his wives too horny. FWIW. I’m not sure about the OT, but I know the Koran says something along those lines, that a man must treat/care for his wives equally (and was allowed only 4 at a time). ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/88 "2016-11-03T15:20:05Z")
> [@alexidsa](#): > > I should’ve been more specific about it. I was answering to a point “homosexuality has always been around, calm down”. While it’s true and fair, that’s a poor argument for a homophobe believing in homosexuality propaganda. They usually go with the following reasoning: > > While homosexuality has always been around, it doesn’t mean it was equally widespread in different societies. They usually provide Ancient Greece as an example of a society where non-heterosexual sexual acts were seemingly much more widespread While it’s true that certain societies are more accepting of homosexuality than others, why should we accept the homophobic argument (you’ve stated) about the statistic spread of homosexuality across various societies now or throughout history? As an aside, it’s getting less and less clear to me what you’re arguing for or against? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/89 "2016-11-03T18:40:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > As an aside, it’s getting less and less clear to me what you’re arguing for or against? More clear to me, with every post. ---
**Author:** ![alexidsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@alexidsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexidsa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/90 "2016-11-05T01:28:30Z")
Thank you guys for providing so many great points. I feel much more confident in my reasoning on this topic now. And it’s quite useful as I’m going to a motor rally giving speeches about homophobia all around Russia. It’s arguably a suicidal act (though I hope it’s not). I will post regular updates here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19753411](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19753411) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/91 "2016-11-05T13:58:24Z")
Brushed up on all your “homosexuality propaganda” talking points, have you? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![alexidsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@alexidsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexidsa)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/92 "2016-11-13T12:32:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Brushed up on all your “homosexuality propaganda” talking points, have you? :dubious: It feels like we some kind of awkward misunderstanding… ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/93 "2016-11-13T16:16:18Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > More clear to me, with every post. It’s been clear to me from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/94 "2016-11-14T14:49:39Z")
Do you believe two people of the same sex can have the same relationship as two people of the opposite sex? If so, what’s wrong with being gay. If not, then why? I once asked this question to a very Orthodox Jew, who thought a minute and said in wonder “Yes. Yes, they can.” That thought had never occurred to him. A gay hater told me “Homosexuality is only about lust. There’s no love involved.” He nevr mt my sister and her wife. ---
**Author:** ![doubleminus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@doubleminus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubleminus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/95 "2016-11-14T16:14:56Z")
Reading all this raises the question of why _men_ are homophobic. It should be in their best interests since it reduces the heterosexual competition for women. I would expect women to be up in arms against male homosexuality. It is well known that even a small men-women imbalance at the relevant ages greatly influences the ease of finding a partner. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324/96 "2016-11-14T16:38:51Z")
> [@doubleminus](#): > > Reading all this raises the question of why _men_ are homophobic. It should be in their best interests since it reduces the heterosexual competition for women. I would expect women to be up in arms against male homosexuality. It is well known that even a small men-women imbalance at the relevant ages greatly influences the ease of finding a partner. If you’re straight, and society loudly defines homosexuality as a temptation that sinful people succumb to, then you can be virtuous by just enjoying sex with women. Also, gays occasionally make a fuss about getting equal rights, and society laughs at them and condemns them; and occasionally someone who _claims_ to be straight sticks up for them – and, who knows, maybe that guy _is_ straight and altruistic; but maybe he’s gay and sensibly looking out for himself. Do you want people wondering if you’re gay, and accusing you of being gay, and you personally get nothing out of it? Or do you maybe want to just keep getting hailed as virtuous for just enjoying yourself? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-propaganda-is-there-anything-to-it/769324.md?page=4)