# Homosexuality **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2001, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033 "2001-01-20T17:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nikjohns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@nikjohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikjohns)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/1 "2001-01-20T17:10:27Z")
Taken from [http://www.godhatesfags.com](http://www.godhatesfags.com) > [@](#): > > Doesn’t the Bible say that God loves everyone? > > No. You are probably thinking of John 3:16, which says no such thing. The word translated “world” in that verse (kosmos) NEVER means every individual of mankind who has ever lived (see, e.g., John 17:9). Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau, and Psalm 5:5 says that God hates all WORKERS of iniquity (e.g., fags). Other examples are Proverbs 6:16-19, Psalm 11:5, and Malachi 1:3. Given these verses, how can you say God loves everyone? Can you really say “God loves everyone” when God says “I hated Esau?” Does God love the people in hell? > > Or, you are thinking of “God is love.” God certainly is love, toward His elect (His children). But He certainly is not love toward the reprobate (children of the devil). That’s why His elect go to heaven, and the reprobate go to hell. In Romans 9:13, which says “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated”, Jacob is a representative of God’s elect, while Esau is a representative of the reprobate. In Romans 1, the word “reprobate” is used to describe fags. Fags are reprobate. God hates reprobates. Therefore, God hates fags. > > Furthermore, God specifically says that He ABHORS people who engage in sodomy (as well as other forms of sexual perversion): “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them…And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.” Leviticus 20:13,23. Understand? GOD ABHORS FAGS. > > God’s hatred is one of His holy attributes, whereby He reveals Himself as having a fixed and immutable determination to punish the finally impenitent with eternal perdition. God’s hatred is not like man’s hatred. His hatred is holy, pure, unchanging, while man’s hatred is a sinful, fickle emotion. Are these people right? Or are their interpretations of the Bible incorrect? Can interpretations of the Bible be incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/2 "2001-01-20T17:16:50Z")
You tell us: Do _you_ think they are right? ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/3 "2001-01-20T17:25:01Z")
When I read that site they reminded me of atheists making a spoof off of a religious website. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/4 "2001-01-20T17:33:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nikjohns \* > \*\*Are these people right? Or are their interpretations of the Bible incorrect? Can interpretations of the Bible be incorrect? \*\* Sheesh, Nik, it depends on who you ask. It’s not a question that has a yes or no answer, like “Is the sun a giant ball of glowing gas?” All the people who believe in the Bible will say, “Yes, the Bible is correct”. All the people who don’t believe in the Bible will say, “No, the Bible is not correct.” Like David said, “What do YOU think?” What **I** think is that the proprietors of the linked website are dangerous right-wing lunatics filled with hatred towards homosexuals, which they spew essentially at random, that they are borderline sado-masochists who enjoy contemplating the torments of Hellfire and Damnation, and you shouldn’t take their attitude to be representative of Christianity as a whole. The Bible says God is a God of “wrath”, not “hatred”. There’s a difference. “Anger” is different from “hatred”. These people enjoy focusing on God’s supposed “hatred”, and I’m sorry for them. This is a very famous and IMO rather sick website. And the short answer to your question, IMHO, is (a) No, these people are not right. (b) Yes, their interpretation of the Bible is incorrect–God may hate the sin, but He loves the sinner. © Yes, interpretations of the Bible can be “different”, but as to whether they’re “incorrect”, again, it depends on who you ask. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/5 "2001-01-20T17:33:35Z")
Unfortunately, they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/6 "2001-01-20T17:34:48Z")
Whoops! DDG snuck in on me, there. My message was in response to Asmodean. ---
**Author:** ![heyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@heyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heyjoe)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/7 "2001-01-20T17:39:06Z")
did anybody else want to cry why they saw the picture of Matthew Shepard on the link above? As Duck Duck Goose said, these are a bunch of right-wing nutcases. While they are entitled to their opinion, theirs is an opinion that shoudl be ignored by the general public 🙂 chris ---
**Author:** ![dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/8 "2001-01-20T17:47:03Z")
If god hates homosexuals then why does he allow them to be born ?,ahhh, got you there ! To be honest I think Newton was right, there is a god BUT he doesn’t interfere very often so we are unsure of the grand plan. Perhaps if we just all learned to live in peace then that would be good enough. ---
**Author:** ![nikjohns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@nikjohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikjohns)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/9 "2001-01-20T17:53:54Z")
It seems there is an accepeted view of what the Bible means on certain issues - repent your sins and God will forgive, but the webmasters / churchowners of [godhatesfags.com](http://godhatesfags.com) seem to have a skewed view of these conventions: ([godhatesfags.com](http://godhatesfags.com)) > [@](#): > > Doesn’t the Bible say not to judge? > > Yes. However, you may not understand what that means. It means not to judge unrighteously, it means not to judge using your human judgment, and it means not to judge hypocritically They are giving their interpretation of the Bible, but are twisiting the words of it. The Bible does say not to judge, but _does not_ go into the detail that they talk about. BUT, I can find no justification whatsoever for this: (again, [godhatesfags.com](http://godhatesfags.com)) > [@](#): > > Why do you picket funerals? > To warn the people who are still living that unless they repent, they will likewise perish. When people go to funerals, they have thoughts of mortality, heaven, hell, eternity, etc., on their minds. It’s the perfect time to warn them of things to come. Is it mean, hateful, uncompassionate, etc.? I’m sure it is, according to your standards. However, according to my standards, it would be infinitely more mean, hateful, uncompassionate, etc., to keep my mouth shut and not warn you that you, too, will soon have to face God. So, in summary: These people are wrong, have a skewed view of the Bible, and therefore, yes, interpretations of the Bible can be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/10 "2001-01-20T19:11:43Z")
> [@](#): > > did anybody else want to cry why they saw the picture of Matthew Shepard on the link above? YES. And it also made me pray that his family never sees it-although they’ve probably seen even worse. _shaking head_ Some people are sick. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/11 "2001-01-20T19:17:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dude \* > \*\*If god hates homosexuals then why does he allow them to be born ?,ahhh, got you there ! > > To be honest I think Newton was right, there is a god BUT he doesn’t interfere very often so we are unsure of the grand plan. > > Perhaps if we just all learned to live in peace then that would be good enough. > \*\* FREEWILL!!! ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/12 "2001-01-20T19:19:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dude \* > \*\*If god hates homosexuals then why does he allow them to be born ?,ahhh, got you there ! > > To be honest I think Newton was right, there is a god BUT he doesn’t interfere very often so we are unsure of the grand plan. > > Perhaps if we just all learned to live in peace then that would be good enough. > \*\* Another thing dude, GOD doesn’t hate homosexuals, he hates the fact that people ignore his laws. ---
**Author:** ![dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/13 "2001-01-20T19:42:15Z")
As human beings we all have far more in common than not, if only we could remember that and live in peace. When I see an attractive lady I KNOW that I am straight, I am sure homosexual people KNOW what they feel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/14 "2001-01-20T19:45:33Z")
I just checked out that site. If I can ever ascribe the term anti-christ to any one it is these people who created this site. It is a mockery of the gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/15 "2001-01-20T19:50:44Z")
Jersey Diamond: > [@](#): > > Another thing dude, GOD doesn’t hate homosexuals, he hates the fact that people ignore his laws. Romans 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Romans 13:2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; (NAS) So, God must hate MLK Jr., right, since he disobeyed many laws and was not “in subjection to the governing authorities”? And don’t give me that “love the sinner, hate the sin” crap either: Ps. 5:5 You hate all who do iniquity. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/16 "2001-01-20T19:52:10Z")
> [@](#): > > FREEWILL!!! Yeah!! Don’t keep the orcas penned up! ---
**Author:** ![RoboDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@RoboDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoboDude)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/17 "2001-01-21T03:15:21Z")
Weren’t the teachings of Jesus supposed to replace all those crazy rules and regulations in the Old Testament? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/18 "2001-01-21T19:53:40Z")
Robo, quite correct according to Scripture itself, although to hear some right-wing Christians talk, you’d never know it. Guin, unfortunately the senior Shepherds have seen it quite a lot, including at Matthew’s funeral, where the Disgustend\* Fred Phelps and his family/congregation picketed. I’d recommend the repulsively fascinating biography of the Phelps clan located at [http://www.godhatesfundies.com](http://www.godhatesfundies.com) (which despite the site name is simply an expose of the far-out fringe of fundamentalism). And thanks to whoever it was linked to it in his .sig file. - Disgustend: The title “Reverend” applied to members of the clergy is a Latin Gerundive meaning “appropriate for reverence” so this strikes me as the appropriate title for Fred. ---
**Author:** ![Fletch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/919ad9/32.png) [@Fletch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fletch)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/19 "2001-01-21T21:03:10Z")
The “church” from the link is not promoting God or Christianity, it is promoting hate. A group from this “church” travels around, pickets and jeers at the funerals of homosexuals and also celebrates their claims that the deceased is “burning in hell”. I feel so badly for the families of the deceased, not only have they lost a loved one, these pointy headed morons are making a circus out of it. Shame, shame, shame on this “church” and their hateful ways. ---
**Author:** ![kirk280980](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@kirk280980](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirk280980)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2001, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/20 "2001-01-22T02:34:38Z")
The idea of someone picketing a funeral just because the deceased was gay absolutely disgusts me. Everyone has a point to make (right or wrong, I suspect the latter in this case), but doing it in this way is as low as you can get. Having an axe to grind doesn’t mean it’s OK to show a lack of respect and make the pain worse for the bereaved. Two wrongs don’t make a right, but when these sick, hateful people pass on, I hope someone pisses on their graves. That’s how strongly I feel about this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033.md?page=2)