# Homosexuality **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2001, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033 "2001-01-20T17:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/41 "2001-01-24T23:43:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > [Another thing, JerseyDiamond-what’s it to you, anyways? Why do you even CARE if people are having sex with someone of the same sex? Does it really MATTER, or affect you? Does it hurt you? I doubt it, so why do you care? > > Seriously, what gives? I don’t see why people waste their time thinking about other people’s lives. > > \*\* The same reason people ‘ask the gay guy’ . It’s human nature to be curious. It’s the same reason why you give your opinion /advice/ 2 cents on threads. The same reason many people chat on message boards. I really don’t care that some people are having sex with the same sex, but when there is a thread that catches my eye, just like you and everyone else, I respond. I’m sorry if that bothers you! ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/42 "2001-01-25T00:01:47Z")
Morrison’s Lament… This last part is what people like the idiots at [http://www.godhatesfags.com](http://www.godhatesfags.com) leave out. They only see what they want to see in the Bible, and let’s admit that it IS a bit vague to say the least 😉 So, I think the only question is one that has already been posted here. What do YOU think? That’s the only thing that matters when you’re talking about faith and not facts. \*\* [/QUOTE] I do have to say that ‘godhatesfags’ is a very distasteful cite, and they are a bunch of idiots! What you have to remember is that this is one organization/ group of people that you must TRY to overlook. I know it’s difficult! People also need to remember that NOT all Christian are happy with this cite. I am one of them! In this cite, nothing is backed up by a shread of anything, so it’s not even worth looking at. Don’t think that all Christians judge people like the people in this cite do. I don’t judge and you will never see me say your going to hell for this or that, IT’s not my place. I simply say what I know by reading the Bible and by learning from my teachers of the faith. They are not Christians in that cite/organization! ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/43 "2001-01-25T00:55:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\ ***JerseyDiamond** and the other Christians on the board who follow this line of thought, why does God (the J/C/I version) believe that homosexuality is a sin? > > It’s been pointed out in other threads, homosexuality harms no one, it’s simply two people of the same sex enjoying each other physically. Procreation isn’t possible thru homosexual sex, but then, that’s not the point of it; the point is about close, physical intimacy with another person. To say that sex is for procreation implies that every time you have sex you **MUST** have offspring from that union or else your sinning. > > So, why is homosexuality so bad other than “because God said so!” ?? \*\* Sorry to dissappoint you Freyr, but ‘because GOD said so’ rules! To Christians, it doesn’t matter what anyone else says/thinks/feels, if GOD said so, nothing else matters! That’s just the way it is. Your right, homosexuality doesn’t harm anyone, as far as I know! But there are many things that ‘don’t harm anyone’, that doesn’t mean it is an acceptable thing to do! > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Freyr \* > To say that sex is for procreation implies that every time you have sex you **MUST** have offspring from that union or else your sinning._\* Who said that sex was just for procreation? GOD didn’t say it was for JUST procreation. Read Corinthians, it will tell you about it. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/44 "2001-01-25T02:06:37Z")
But, **JerseyDiamond** , hon, “GOD” didn’t say so. Paul said so. The letters to the Corinthians were written by Paul, who wrote with his own biases (and possibly his own suppressed homosexuality, but I really don’t know about that bit). Not by “GOD.” By a man. By a Human, fallible, man. Who said lots of other things that Christians condemning homosexuality conveniently ignore. I will again refer you to the fine essay at [this site](http://www.melwhite.org/biblesays.html). Please read it, this time. You’ve been referred to it before. {fixed URL. --Gaudere} [Edited by Gaudere on 01-24-2001 at 09:44 PM] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/45 "2001-01-25T02:47:52Z")
Oh yeah. God says so! Really! Well, I guess I was all wrong! So here I was, trying to be all tolerant, and I’m really just soooo sinful! I guess I must start preaching to gays to REPENT! REPENT!.. :rolleyes: I didn’t know you spoke with God personally, JD. _btw, I asked my father what he would do if Phelps showed up at a funeral. If the group came inside the property, my dad would kick his ass out. Other wise, if they were outside, he’d just call the police. My dad says anyone trying to do that at a FUNERAL is sick._ ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/46 "2001-01-25T04:56:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > _ **btw, I asked my father what he would do if Phelps showed up at a funeral. If the group came inside the property, my dad would kick his ass out. Other wise, if they were outside, he’d just call the police. My dad says anyone trying to do that at a FUNERAL is sick.** _ Wow, **Guinastasia**. I mean, really. Phelps?? Sheesh, talk about a strawman. What does that have to do with anybody on this board? Do you blame **Wildest Bill** for abortion clinic bombings? Did **JerseyDiamond** molest all those altarboys? Hey, maybe it was **ME** that bombed the USS Cole and shot Kennedy! You should probably look into it. Again, you fail to realize that that is not Christian behavior. Phelps was NOT acting like a Christian, just another idiot like in that godhatesfags site (my opinion as a Christian is that that site makes me sick. I’ve never seen such a thorough job of twisting the bible to say something so unbiblical. Well, ok, I have I have. But that’s not relevant). Anybody who would purposely antagonize mourners that way at the funeral of a murder victim is obviously not acting in a manner that is in any way pleasing to God. Do I think Matther Shepherd (sp?) engaged in acts that were wrong? Yes. Do I think he deserved to be murdered? Absolutely not. He does not represent me, and he does not represent Christians! Why do you (collectively) paint all Christians with that brush, just because a guy who acts like a horrible jerk claims to be a Christian? Do you like it when somebody says something like “all homosexuals are child molesters” or “all atheists are arrogant jerks”? Just because there are child molesters who are homosexual doesn’t mean that all (or even a significant number) are so. Just because David B. is arrogant doesn’t mean all atheists are! 😉 (haha david that’s a joke!) And just because the racists in the kkk claim to be Christians, that doesn’t mean that Christians are racists. Just because those morons at that site throw Jesus’s name and some Bible verses around doesn’t mean that you get to assume that Christians are bigots. All you anti-Christians have it all wrong. You don’t hurt us by insulting us and calling names. The best way to hurt us is to act like a jerk, be a disgusting bigot (phelps, kkk, abortion bombs, etc), and then look into the camera and say “I love Jesus, dude!” That way all the atheists will shake their heads and say “Look what fundies do!” So lay off the personal attacks. You can :rolleyes: all you want. It doesn’t change anything. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/47 "2001-01-25T05:04:46Z")
Knee Jerk, much, Joe? BTW, FYI, Guin isn’t anti-Christian. She’s a Christian struggling with her faith, IIRC from other threads. So maybe, pot, you ought to watch what you call that kettle. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/48 "2001-01-25T15:01:29Z")
dogsbody, just a nitpick, but the Bible says (where I cannot recll) that all its words are dictated right from God, so supposedly whatever Pasul said is what God wanted him to say. Walking out of this thread now, my two cents in my hand… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/49 "2001-01-25T19:56:10Z")
Joe Cool-um, I don’t know how to tell you this but… I’m CATHOLIC! So I don’t know WHERE you got the idea that I’m anti-Christian or whatever…or how my post was somehow negative of Christianity in general. No, I used my father to say that not every Christian acts like Fred Phelps. I don’t know what my dad thinks about homosexuality (I don’t think he approves, nor does he disapprove, I don’t think he really cares one way or another), but he’s a devout Catholic…(a Eucharistic Minister, in fact), and he wouldn’t condone the kinds of things that Phelps and the like are doing. I remember my friends and I at work laughing at someone we thought was gay years ago when I was much younger. My dad’s response-“Leave the poor guy alone-it isn’t any of your business and you shouldn’t go around making fun of people.” My dad has ALWAYS advocated respecting others. I for one, am a Christian, and don’t believe everything in the Bible literally. I believe in God, and the angels, some of the saints, Jesus, but I think it’s possible that all religions are true, and just different ways of worshipping God. And I don’t believe homosexuality is wrong at all. LMAO…oh lord…first someone calls me a hypocritical knee-jerk Christian in the Pit, and now I’m “anti-Christian”…oh this is too much! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/50 "2001-01-25T20:09:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Joe\_Cool** _ > > Do I think Matther Shepherd (sp?) engaged in acts that were wrong? Yes. Do I think he deserved to be murdered? Absolutely not. He does not represent me, and he does not represent Christians! Why do you (collectively) paint all Christians with that brush, just because a guy who acts like a horrible jerk claims to be a Christian? Are you talking about Matt Shepard or Fred Phelps here? I’m confused… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/51 "2001-01-25T21:06:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Joe Cool-um, I don’t know how to tell you this but… > > I’m CATHOLIC! So I don’t know WHERE you got the idea that I’m anti-Christian or whatever…or how my post was somehow negative of Christianity in general…LMAO…oh lord…first someone calls me a hypocritical knee-jerk Christian in the Pit, and now I’m “anti-Christian”…oh this is too much! > > \*\* Uh, I didn’t call you anything. I put a paragraph break, then said “all you anti-christians”. I thought it was clear that that was an aside. Sorry. Esprix: the first part is Shepard, the 2nd part is Phelps. That’s what I get for editing and re-editing. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/52 "2001-01-25T21:15:16Z")
\*\*JerseyDiamond wrote: Sorry to dissappoint you Freyr, but ‘because GOD said so’ rules! To Christians, it doesn’t matter what anyone else says/thinks/feels, if GOD said so, nothing else matters! That’s just the way it is. JerseyDiamond\*\*, would you really, truly give up personal responsibility like that, simply because God, with a capital **G** told you so? He doesn’t give a reason, He simply says “just because **I** said so!” You’re saying that simply because God said it, you believe it, no matter how foolish or non-sensical. Such blind obedience to authority is frightening. I can only hope that not all Christians think like that, that some will use their brains rather than blindly obeying orders that make no sense. I would counter your arguement by saying that (the J/C/I) God never said anything about homosexuality being a sin. Men did. The anonymous authors of the Book of Leviticus and Paul of Tarsus wrote those things about homosexuality, not (the J/C/I) God. Those men wrote with the prevailing morality of thet time and place. (The J/C/I)God was not speaking thru them. And in the event He did, then He truly deserves the title of Divine Weasel that’s been so appropriately coined by **Polycarp**. And the reason I make a point of this is that some Christian churches use their political and financial influence to make these morals part of the secular law. What Christians believe or don’t believe doesn’t bother me; it’s when they try to influence secular law that it becomes a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/53 "2001-01-25T22:20:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Joe\_Cool** _ > > the first part is Shepard, the 2nd part is Phelps. OK, so when you said: > [@](#): > > Do I think Matther Shepherd (sp?) engaged in acts that were wrong? Yes. Do I think he deserved to be murdered? Absolutely not. What, exactly, did Matthew Shepard do wrong? > [@](#): > > {Phelps} does not represent me, and he does not represent Christians! Why do you (collectively) paint all Christians with that brush, just because a guy who acts like a horrible jerk claims to be a Christian? Methinks you’ll be able to handle that paintbrush all on your own… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/54 "2001-01-25T23:32:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Freyr \* > JerseyDiamond_\*, would you really, truly give up personal responsibility like that, simply because God, with a capital **G** told you so? He doesn’t give a reason, He simply says “just because **I** said so!” You’re saying that simply because God said it, you believe it, no matter how foolish or non-sensical. Such blind obedience to authority is frightening.\*\* He doesn’t have to give a reason if he doesn’t want to, HE’S **GOD**!!! \*\* [/QUOTE] I can only hope that not all Christians think like that, that some will use their brains rather than blindly obeying orders that make no sense…\*\* [/QUOTE] Christians are to follow what GOD says, not question what GOD says! \*\* [/QUOTE] I would counter your arguement by saying that (the J/C/I) God never said anything about homosexuality being a sin. Men did. The anonymous authors of the Book of Leviticus and Paul of Tarsus wrote those things about homosexuality, not (the J/C/I) God. Those men wrote with the prevailing morality of thet time and place. (The J/C/I)God was not speaking thru them. And in the event He did, then He truly deserves the title of Divine Weasel that’s been so appropriately coined by **Polycarp**. \*\* [/QUOTE] Vanilla said it best when she said, [/quote] dogsbody, just a nitpick, but the Bible says (where I cannot recll) that all its words are dictated right from God, so supposedly whatever Paul said is what God wanted him to say. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/55 "2001-01-25T23:51:24Z")
Kindly **show me** where exactly in the bible it says that. In other words: Cite, please? Have you bothered to read that essay yet? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2001, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/56 "2001-01-25T23:52:23Z")
**Freyr** , really, dear - the only good thing about hitting your head against a brick wall is that it feels good when you stop. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/57 "2001-01-26T00:00:06Z")
Apparently Sheppard made the mistake of actually falling ine love with someone of the same sex…I guess that’s what upsets Joe so much. Oh the horror! [homer simpson] Now THAT’s sarcasm! [/homer simpson] JD-how does anyone know that just because the Bible says it’s the word of God, that it is? For all we know, some moron just wrote that to force his own ideas? Heck, for all you guys know, I am God. I mean, you’re right, Jersey Diamond-HE’S GOD! He can do whatever he wants-which might include creating homosexuality in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/58 "2001-01-26T00:13:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > JD-how does anyone know that just because the Bible says it’s the word of God, that it is? For all we know, some moron just wrote that to force his own ideas? Heck, for all you guys know, I am God. I mean, you’re right, Jersey Diamond-HE’S GOD! He can do whatever he wants-which might include creating homosexuality in the first place. > \*\* Tell me Guinastasia, what is it that catholics believe? Honest question! Oh, and by the way, GOD didn’t create homosexuality. I thought that we covered that when we talk about free will. Do catholics believe we have free will? I’m so confused by catholisism, maybe you can help me out. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/59 "2001-01-26T00:25:30Z")
Yes, Catholics believe in Free Will. They also believe that homosexuality is NOT a choice. That said, they still don’t believe it’s right to practice homosexuality. That is one I DON’T agree with. There’s a lot of stuff with the Church that I don’t agree with, and right now, I’m trying to sort it out for myself, which isn’t very easy. It’s actually a very painful thing, losing one’s faith. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033/60 "2001-01-26T00:26:23Z")
Tut, tut, **Guin** - obviously you don’t know enough about your own religion. Bad Catholic! No Eucharist! :rolleyes: See, in **JD** ’s World, it’s very easy - if you’re _really_ a Christian, you can’t think that homosexuality is ok. And if you _do_, well, then, you’re not Christian, and hardly worth worry about (praise the Lord!). For the record, **Jersey** and **Joe** , Unitarian Universalists (among other religions) do not share your belief about homosexuality, homosexual acts (I’m thinking three-ring circus here), or gay men, lesbians, bisexuals, asexuals, heterosexuals or transgendered. And they’re some of the finest Christian people I know. (I think you might take issue with their self-identification of Christian based on this, but that’s your problem, not mine.) Esprix [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality/51033.md?page=4)