# Honest arguments for Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 22, 2024, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576 "2024-09-22T03:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/41 "2024-09-22T16:13:31Z")
But I think your response is another way to ignore the question-“I would tell you, but you would only ignore/attack me, so I won’t!”. Is the an actual answer to the question and if so, what is it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/42 "2024-09-22T16:14:45Z")
But the question is “Why?”. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/43 "2024-09-22T16:24:40Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > There are too many posters with knives drawn salivating at the opportunity to jump on anyone advancing such an argument. And not just to rebut the argument with logic and facts, but to declare the believer evil or at the very least evil-adjacent. Are you seeing that in this thread? I see sadness, fear, and despondency more. I don’t follow all the trump threads on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/44 "2024-09-22T16:33:51Z")
It sure is! ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/45 "2024-09-22T17:19:43Z")
> [@ThisOneGuy](#): > > Any non-white, non-man will be described as “brave” or “important” for achieving anything at all (“I tied my own shoes”). Anything I might accomplish can, and will, be dismissed as the result of some nebulous “privilege”. Then you’ll be able to provide multiple cites for this more subtle, but constant, assertion? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/46 "2024-09-22T18:02:51Z")
Anyone I know that is successful, regardless or race or sex got there by doing one thing. Working there ass off. On the other hand, a rich person that falls into money backasswards and continues to make bad choices just so he can stay in the limelight, is not successful. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/47 "2024-09-22T18:23:05Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > What about Trump supporters who are neither white, guys, or particularly macho? My guess: they are either part of the community dominated by the beliefs of white macho guys (applies to a lot of women), or, they want to be (applies to a lot of young hispanic men). And there are the wealthy people who, far more accurately, believe trump to be on their side. Let us never discount the effects of low intelligence and a narrow impoverished world view. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/48 "2024-09-22T19:15:10Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > One of the few things I like about Trump is that he does seem to comprehend the gravity of war. During the debate, didn’t Trump say that he would “make a deal” to end the war in Ukraine? It struck me that he was treating war with all the gravity of a real estate transaction. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Then you’ll be able to provide multiple cites for this more subtle, but constant, assertion? That might be an interesting discussion, but seems to be a hijack here. It may also run afoul of the board’s topic ban on Men’s Rights Activism. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/49 "2024-09-22T19:17:40Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > The OP pretty much poisons the well, and predictably in just the 14 posts so far this thread has already become yet another bashing Trump and his supporters thread. I don’t believe that this is a question that can be legitimately debated on this Board, because Trump voters might as well be aliens to most of the posters here. I’m not sure if this reflects a shortcoming of these boards, or simply reflects how some legitimate discussions are not possible given the current environment. On many social issues, this board has skewed increasingly far left, such that anyone not left of center is roundly criticized as evil, stupid, both, or worse. Even attempts to discuss those “aliens” is met with simplistic responses that they are evil and stupid. Not the Dope at its best. One other argument for Trump that came to me is that his last presidency was successful in reducing regulations and harming the bureaucracy. IMO, many folk criticize specific regs/bureaucracy which they find personally burdensome, while ignoring the countless aspects of bureaucracy which make their lives pleasant. Also, many wealthier folk are fine with reducing publicly provided services, because they can afford increased user fees. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/50 "2024-09-22T19:26:14Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That might be an interesting discussion, but seems to be a hijack here. It may also run afoul of the board’s topic ban on Men’s Rights Activism. He was making an argument, or at least a quasi-argument, for why some might lean toward Trump, offering as a given how whites and non-whites are treated and described. Not sure how exploring that would be a hijack. But not a big deal, really. I’m not expecting any convincing evidence. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/51 "2024-09-22T19:34:53Z")
An honest argument for Trump is that, until March 2020, for many people life wasn’t that bad. Especially if you stayed in your own selfish bubble and avoided any media so you weren’t subjected to every horrible thing he said day after day after day. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/52 "2024-09-22T20:06:08Z")
What I see in this thread is that we people don’t understand why someone would vote for Trump. It makes no sense to us. And that is bad, because to beat your enemy (yes: enemy. Not mere political rival) you should know him. Be this as it may, I have not read one single rational bona fide argument for voting for Trump so far. And I can’t come up with one either. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/53 "2024-09-22T20:24:07Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Be this as it may, I have not read one single rational bona fide argument for voting for Trump so far. And I can’t come up with one either. What do you mean? Say I am vehemently opposed to abortion. Or gay rights. Or immigration. Or environmental regulation. I could well believe a Trump administration would support those better than a Harris one. You may not agree with those choices (nor do I), but how can you declare that they are not bona fide arguments for someone who differs from you. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/54 "2024-09-22T20:28:29Z")
To the degree you think a trump admin will be a typical R admin, you (rhetorical you) could think that. An honest assessment of what trump and his cronies say a trump administration will consist of and what policies it will pursue cannot possibly be honestly squared with the idea they’ll be a conventional R admin. That’s the cognitive disconnect at the center of the non-MAGA R voter. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/55 "2024-09-22T20:39:53Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > You may not agree with those choices I not only don’t agree with those statements, I honestly don’t believe they are bona fide arguments. They don’t feel rational to me. I may be wrong: perhaps they are. I admit I don’t understand how anybody would want to vote for Trump. Which, unfortunately, makes his victory more likely, I am afraid. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/56 "2024-09-22T20:43:43Z")
I’d like to grant that any number of Trump supporters may support any number of positions _they believe_ he holds or any number of things _they believe_ he accomplished. But it’s exceedingly difficult, in _my_ head, not to draw a parallel with a battered spouse: - “He’s good to the children” - “He’s an excellent provider” - “He bought me a new Mercedes-Benz SUV for Christmas” There’s a Stockholm Syndrome aspect to it that _absolutely requires_ they never leave their information bubbles, like, just to simply understand what really happened on January 6th, and what the “alternate slate of electors” scheme was really about. Or about 5,000 other things that conservative media simply _didn’t_ and _doesn’t_ cover, and that they blithely disregard as “fake news.” But which inarguably isn’t fake. There have been any number of comparable threads about “sincerely-held beliefs.” Like the targets of all demagogues, propagandists, charlatans, and con men throughout history, I have little doubt that the beliefs of Trump supporters are sincerely held. More’s the pity. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/57 "2024-09-22T20:47:06Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m not sure if this reflects a shortcoming of these boards, or simply reflects how some legitimate discussions are not possible given the current environment. I think you’re right. Posters can, and have in this tread, note the arguments for Trump that his supporters honestly believe. But the vast majority of posters on this board will find these arguments inherently dishonest, illegitimate or contrary to (their own perceived) reality. And then it’s just another pile on about how bad Trump is and how stupid it is to support him. Which I just find kind of boring. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/58 "2024-09-22T20:50:27Z")
I don’t know exactly what trump’s redeeming qualities are, but anybody who has two mega MAGA hotties like Laura Loomer and MTG fighting over him has _got_ to have something going for him! ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/59 "2024-09-22T21:00:29Z")
What I learned after decades in communications is that everybody looks at things through the issue of _How does this affect **Me**?_ That’s a bit of an oversimplification, but not too much of one. For a Trump voter it boils down to some combination of three basic factors. I was doing better under Trump, so I’m going to vote for him I’m for/against to issue X, and so is Trump People say Trump is a crook, but all politicians are crooks, so it doesn’t much matter one way or another If what Trump does helps you as well as me, that’s fine. If it hurts you but helps me, well that’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/60 "2024-09-22T21:09:52Z")
Would dishonesty on our part be more exciting? If not, what _would_ be? I mean, I hear there are honest and sincere discussions on the more right wing board, so what are they? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576.md?page=4)