# Honest arguments for Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 22, 2024, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576 "2024-09-22T03:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/101 "2024-09-23T17:15:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > …fiscally advantageous to _whom_? I assume the answer is “me, now”. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/102 "2024-09-23T17:26:48Z")
This is a good response! I was thinking about starting a new thread, with not quite so much well-poisoning, but I don’t think I’d get anything better than this. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/103 "2024-09-23T17:28:53Z")
I think there are a lot of honest reasons to vote for trump. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > > > Be this as it may, I have not read one single rational bona fide argument for voting for Trump so far. And I can’t come up with one either. > > What do you mean? Say I am vehemently opposed to abortion. Or gay rights. Or immigration. Or environmental regulation. I could well believe a Trump administration would support those better than a Harris one. You may not agree with those choices (nor do I), but how can you declare that they are not bona fide arguments for someone who differs from you. For instance, The above. > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > They don’t feel rational to me. If you are a small business owner, government regulations cost you money and give you hassles every day. How is that not rational? And is it rational to want to save lives? Many abortion opponents truly think that every abortion is a murder. Or at least, every abortion after x weeks, as many understand that there’s a real difference between a blastula and a newborn, but draw the line a lot closer to “blastula” than i do. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There’s plenty of “honest” reasons for supporting Trump. It’s just that the honest ones are all irrational, false or malignant. He’ll hurt women, persecute brown people, and likely user in a new fascist regime culminating in genocide in and out of the country; and that’s what a great many people _honestly_ want. This is true, too. Some of his voters are really upset that America is less white, and women and Blacks get too much respect. That there are more Hispanics than there used to be, and thus, we see signs in Spanish. That queers are tolerated in public. Maybe not rational, but an honest reason. > [@Moriarty](#): > > Their honest arguments for Trump are based on **misinformation** And then there’s this. I’ve seen young voters who despaired at inflation and believe Trump will bring prices “back”. There are blue collar workers who believe trump will bring back good American jobs. These people are just wrong, but these are things they desperately want, and it’s hard not to chase hope. The other thing most Trump voters have in common is not caring that he’s personally vile. Most of them are willing to admit it. Except the bigots, who revel in it. But while bigots are an important voting segment, i don’t think they are a majority of Trump’s voters. His other voters don’t think his personality is as important as his policies, and what his administration will do. Ant don’t believe that our democracy is in any special danger. It is it is, that’s less important than the danger to our society of leftist policies. And a lot of American political rhetoric is firmly in the “me first, i worked for it” camp. Much of American believes that charity should stay in the home and church, and that “society” doesn’t have a responsibility towards those who suffer misfortune. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/104 "2024-09-23T17:30:19Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > “The Democratic Party seems to be more concerned about things like racial and gender identity than the concerns of hard-working voters like me. I see a tyranny of over-educated “experts” who failed with the pandemic but still want to dictate every aspect of my life. There’s an illegal immigrant crisis that they don’t really care about. The economy did pretty well under Trump and we didn’t have this awful inflation. I’m tired of my tax money going to support foreign wars and want foreign countries to pay their fair share." The thing is, someone doesn’t have to be a Trump supporter to agree with everything here. A non-Trump supporter may have more nuance about Trump’s term and agrees that Trump should not be elected again and may be willing to hold their nose and vote for Harris. Doesn’t mean they’ll like it, doesn’t mean they won’t split the ticket downballot, but that doesn’t make them Democrat supporters. People, including lots of posters here, are perfectly happy to use a very wide brush to condemn millions of people in a way that they wouldn’t tolerate for a number of other groups or identities. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/105 "2024-09-23T17:35:44Z")
His positions on matters may influence some voters, but only if they openly disregard the fact that Trump’s moral weather vane swings towards public opinion and can change just as fast. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/106 "2024-09-23T17:38:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What you call "centrist’ _is_ conservative, and if you think this board is “all the way left” on anything it’s because you don’t know any actual leftists (and no, I don’t qualify, I’m nowhere near “left” enough to count). Uh no. What you are calling “centrist” (i.e. this board), is very much LEFT of “centrist”, as that word would be defined by any defensible definition. Maybe not anarchist overthrow the government Antifa leftist (generally, there are certain exceptions), but definitely left of center. Your point of view is skewed due to your lack of personal association with anyone who is right of center. Most everyone wants to be thought of as part of the reasonable, rational, not at all radical centrist point of view. The problem is your baseline of what centrist means is shifted. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/107 "2024-09-23T17:41:41Z")
This is my ex-best-friend’s honest arguments for Trump: > Personally, I just want wars to end… I liked the peace we had with Trump. I liked that my dollar went farther. I liked that houses were more affordable, and that he was cutting regulations. I like that other countries were contributing to NATO more. I liked that the southern border was more secure. I liked less crime. I liked affordable gas and groceries. I liked lower taxes which are set to expire next year I believe. These last 3.5 years have been a total disaster, I can’t believe people are voting for Kamala, especially with her proven record of supporting crime, bailing out felons, and her being the border czar and totally messing that up. If she was meat, she’d be sausage because she’s the wurst… > > You don’t have to like Trump to vote for him. His policies are objectively better for everybody. The last 4 years have shown that republicans may not be the solution to our problems, but democrats and the democrat agenda is, without a doubt, the cause of many of our problems. Vote for Trump, I know you want to! 🤷‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/108 "2024-09-23T17:46:24Z")
As always… > You can’t reason a person _out of_ a belief that they didn’t use reason to hold in the first place. – [Paraphrasing] Jonathan Swift ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/109 "2024-09-23T17:48:57Z")
I’m sorry, but it looks like your friend wasn’t even honest with them self. Just saying those things without backing them up with facts, even to the point of disregarding opposing facts, does not count as “honesty” in my book-it is, at best, willful ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/110 "2024-09-23T17:51:50Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > As always… > > > You can’t reason a person _out of_ a belief that they didn’t use reason to hold in the first place. > > – [Paraphrasing] Jonathan Swift Funny how that never gets deployed against those who say they would vote for a ham sandwich over Trump. Again, Trump’s given plenty of reasons he should not be elected. But it’s not like every voter the Democrats get is perfectly rational and enlightened. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/111 "2024-09-23T17:54:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but it looks like your friend wasn’t even honest with them self. Just saying those things without backing them up with facts, even to the point of disregarding opposing facts, does not count as “honesty” in my book-it is, at best, willful ignorance. Just sharin’ what I see. Thats how he honestly feels. I don’t agree with any of it but I’m sure if I engaged he’d prompt me to do my own research. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/112 "2024-09-23T17:56:30Z")
Never? The right does it all the time. You seem to be saying that you want _both_ sides to do it…which of course would render it useless. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/113 "2024-09-23T17:57:13Z")
This is getting to be a hijack, but > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > What you call "centrist’ _is_ conservative, and if you think this board is “all the way left” on anything it’s because you don’t know any actual leftists (and no, I don’t qualify, I’m nowhere near “left” enough to count). > > Uh no. What you are calling “centrist” (i.e. this board), is very much LEFT of “centrist”, as that word would be defined by any defensible definition I think @Der_Trihs is European? The American political spectrum leans very far to the right of the European political spectrum. That’s what i was getting at when i said " > [@puzzlegal](#): > > And a lot of American political rhetoric is firmly in the “me first, i worked for it” camp. Much of American believes that charity should stay in the home and church, and that “society” doesn’t have a responsibility towards those who suffer misfortune. That’s a common American sentiment, but less common in Europe. Which is why Europe has a stronger social safety net than we have, and why Trump is popular among many non-bigots in the US. Getting back to the topic, i think you need to acknowledge the strong individualistic strain in US politics to understand Trump’s popularity. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/114 "2024-09-23T18:08:06Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Funny how that never gets deployed against those who say they would vote for a ham sandwich over Trump. Personally, I’d have to know more about the ham sandwich _if_ the ham sandwich had tried to overthrow the legitimately elected US government. But I haven’t seen any evidence that the ham sandwich did that. Trump, OTOH, most assuredly did. IOW: I don’t buy your premise At. All. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/115 "2024-09-23T18:14:03Z")
I haven’t studied things terribly closely, but my impression is that Trump was quite successful in: -reducing taxes on the wealthy; -attacking the permanent bureaucracy and reducing many categories of information/services provided to the public; -opposing any meaningful addressing of immigration; -appointing judges/justices who seem willing to be very activist and decide cases reflecting religious and - um - conservative principles; -lessening our obligations to various international organizations. Too many folk say that he accomplished nothing during his presidency. I’d agree, with the qualifier nothing GOOD. But he was QUITE effective in these areas - possibly more. If someone really liked any one or more of those accomplishments, there’s your honest reason. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/116 "2024-09-23T18:51:36Z")
Thank you for sharing. That stuff is gold The last sentence is super revealing ("Vote for Trump, I know you want to!). That’s what I would say to a friend…but I’d say Harris. The underlying genuine thinking for both is: you can’t possibly like Harris/Trump for all these reasons, and on some basic level that you won’t admit, deep down you want to vote for Trump/Harris. Such a disconnect. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/117 "2024-09-23T19:27:18Z")
Who knew the result, _no matter what the actual content_, would end up with a totally artificial “both sides do it”? I did. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/118 "2024-09-23T20:24:02Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > So, their “honest” argument for Trump is usually that the country did well under him for 3 years, Not really. Yea, Inflation had been down under Obama, but it started to go up again- until Covid. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/119 "2024-09-24T00:01:49Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think @Der_Trihs is European? The American political spectrum leans very far to the right of the European political spectrum. No, I live in California. That said, in my lifetime the politics of the US have moved increasingly rightward, the Left has become basically irrelevant, and the so-called “center” has let itself be dragged steadily rightward for decades while claiming to be the “moderates” the whole time. And I refuse to let the Far Right define what the “center” is. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576/120 "2024-09-24T00:21:39Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > The last sentence is super revealing ("Vote for Trump, I know you want to!). That’s what I would say to a friend…but I’d say Harris. The way I read “I know you want to” is that some reptilian part of the brain wants to vote for the candidate, perhaps because the same people who look down on the candidate look down on me. My answer to that is — I believe you want to, but you shouldn’t because DJT’s a con man. To me, it doesn’t work the other way. It is hard for me to imagine many voters wanting to vote for Harris while knowing they shouldn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-arguments-for-trump/1007576.md?page=7)