# Honest opinions on these cars? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430 "2005-03-20T16:10:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/21 "2005-03-21T03:27:29Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > GM is a minority (though a significant minority) in Fuji Heavy Industries, the congomerate that owns and manufactures the chassis and engine for Subaru. So far as I know, there is no crossover of technology or styling (and if there were, I’d be manifestly distressed. GM…ugh!) I think that’s because GM’s not fully gotten their clutches into some of it’s other victims yet. IIRC, they just managed to escape taking over Fiat, they’re still trying to figure out what to do with the civilian division of Hummer that they bought, and they’ve been having trouble funding their pensions. I’ve been hopeful that with Lutz in charge GM could be turned around, but either the problem’s worse than what Ross Perot described or Lutz isn’t as good as he appeared to be when he was running Chrysler. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/22 "2005-03-21T05:45:00Z")
1. **Land Rover Freelander.** We have an '02 Freelander S. We purchased it on a year-end clearance in November of 2002, just before the 2003 model year came out, so we got a great deal. After taxes, license, doc fees and extended warranty, we were still just under the original sticker price. It just passed 50,000 miles last week. We haven’t had any problems to speak of. There was a problem with one of the door latches, and a piece of plastic from somewhere broke loose and was rubbing against the u-joint at one point. Everything was covered under warranty, and our dealer gives a freee loaner whenever your car is in for service, so there was very little inconvenience. We have taken it off-road several times. It is a “mini-SUV”, and it doesn’t compare off-road to a Jeep Wrangler, for example; but it is more than capable enough for me. It handles great, and is just plain fun to drive! It also is wonderful in the snow. It’s also good for hauling horse-feed, and we used it to pull out old fence-posts and small tree trunks when we were helping to re-fence our friend’s pasture. Highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/23 "2005-03-21T13:37:16Z")
Re the Liberty. My Wife almost bought one. Even ordered it. Changed her mind at the last minute and bought a Grand. Couldn’t be happier. The Grand get’s a little less mileage, but is twice the vehicle in my opinion. I’m going to be buying in a year or two, and there’s a good chance I’ll take my Wife’s car and get her a New Grand. It’s the right size, and you can get a V8 in it. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/24 "2005-03-21T14:12:27Z")
> [@Boscibo](#): > > 1. **Pontiac Vibe**. I’ve seen these at a local dealer, but haven’t test driven one. > Pros: Cheap, has AWD. > Cons: I still base my Pontiac experience on two Trans Ams I owned back in the 80’s. Lots of problems there, I don’t know if they’ve improved. I own a Vibe, so I’ll give you my impressions: First of all, realize (as **Enola Straight** already said) that the Vibe is just a Toyota Matrix with different exterior sheet metal. Same chassis, same engine, same suspension, same interior. So as far as reliability is concerned, think Toyota Corolla as opposed to Pontiac Trans Am. Second, I think the Vibe is a great value. You’re right – it’s inexpensive. But you say you’re budgeting $28K, a full $10K more than the price of the Vibe. I don’t think the Vibe’s performance is going to be on par with vehicles in the higher price range, so how much are the extras worth to you? I’ve got the 2WD version, and it handles decently in the snow, but I don’t think I’d put it up against an unplowed road (and I’d recommend you switch out the stock tires). The AWD version is more money up front and would tend to reduce gas mileage and acceleration, if that’s acceptable to you. As far as acceleration, the 2WD isn’t a dog. I can still accelerate smoothly even at 80 mph, and the performance is certainly way better than my brother’s older underpowered Camry. Still, it’s not great, and the AWD would drop it, I imagine. Just a thought: have you looked at the Toyota RAV4 or the Honda CRV? ---
**Author:** ![Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b3f665/32.png) [@Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hanna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/25 "2005-03-21T19:12:16Z")
Thanks for all the feedback! We really aren’t looking for a SUV so haven’t considered the Toyota RAV4, Honda CRV or Element; the Liberty and Freelander were thrown in as some vehicles I liked and wanted to see how others liked. In reality we probably won’t buy a SUV. After review, the top contenders are the Subaru Impreza WRX wagon and the Mini Cooper. The more I read about hte Mini, the more I want one. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/26 "2005-03-21T19:21:29Z")
Oh, and don’t forget…The April issue of Consumer Reports is their annual Automobile issue. It should be on news stands now. More than you’ll ever want to know about the 2005’s. ---
**Author:** ![chaparralv8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@chaparralv8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaparralv8)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/27 "2005-03-21T21:12:31Z")
> [@Boscibo](#): > > Thanks for all the feedback! We really aren’t looking for a SUV so haven’t considered the Toyota RAV4, Honda CRV or Element; the Liberty and Freelander were thrown in as some vehicles I liked and wanted to see how others liked. In reality we probably won’t buy a SUV. > > After review, the top contenders are the Subaru Impreza WRX wagon and the Mini Cooper. The more I read about hte Mini, the more I want one. Drive them both before making a decision. They’re very different cars. You could also run the budget all the way to the limits and try an Impreza STi. Remember, no automatics! Both BMW and Subaru are committed to offering lousy slushboxes and that goes double for the quicker machines. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/28 "2005-03-21T21:13:44Z")
I have a '03 Mini S and I still love it to pieces. As I live in Texas, I can’t honestly tell you how it handles in a lot of snow. There is a winter package available (which I highly reccomend if only for the heated seat feature!). The Mini handles like a champ in the rain, though. Someone recommended an Element. My friend has one. Yes, you get a great deal on them but the one thing that would make me think twice about them is the acceleration. They are SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW to accelerate. I thought for sure we would get hit trying to merge onto the highway. People say that the Mini has bad back seats (in regards to roominess) but the Elements are worse, IMO. They are hard and really uncomfortable for the long haul. ---
**Author:** ![chaparralv8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@chaparralv8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaparralv8)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/29 "2005-03-22T02:59:55Z")
The Element, like every other car the House of Soichiro has ever built, has an engine that is almost pathetically weak until it’s revved up. Above 4000 RPM, it’s fun to run down the backroads - other drivers do a double take when the Flying Refrigerator passes them. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/30 "2005-03-22T05:28:58Z")
Always remember: JEEP stands for “Junk, Each & Every Part”. Also, Jeep owners always were comfortable walking shoes. Ask them why. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/31 "2005-03-22T05:43:26Z")
> [@gatopescado](#): > > Always remember: JEEP stands for “Junk, Each & Every Part”. Also, Jeep owners always were comfortable walking shoes. Ask them why. 😉 Actually, it stands for “Just Every Essential Part” and the guy who built the first Range Rover did so using Jeep parts and prefers the current incarnation of Jeeps over Rovers. If you’re a “Jeep person” you understand your vehicle and don’t have any problems with it. If you’re _not_ a Jeep person, you’ll absolutely hate the thing, even if you _don’t_ have problems with it. For anyone who buys a Jeep, I urge you to pick up a copy of [_The Jeep Owners Bible_](http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=UH08gBmAhA&isbn=0837611172&itm=1) by Moses Ludel. It’s _the_ book to own. It tells you how to properly care for your Jeep and how to fix some of the quirks which can be found in certain models. (The Chrysler electronic controlled trannys are _notorious_ for poor shifting, fortunately, there’s plenty of inexpensive aftermarket solutions to this problem.) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/32 "2005-03-22T05:48:36Z")
I’m shopping now right now, too, and I saw in one of the Consumer Reports editions that the Mini Cooper was rated off-the-charts-bad for reliability. Literally - the bar went all the way to the left (that’s the bad side), and the number read “99.9+”. ---
**Author:** ![mike1dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@mike1dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mike1dog)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/33 "2005-03-22T06:13:09Z")
The Jeep-Like everyone else here, unless you’re a Jeep Fanatic, you won’t like it. Especially the Wrangler, which is awfully expensive for such a crude vehicle. Subarus-Almost unknown in my part of the country, since it doesn’t snow here. I’ve seen two in the past three years, both WRX’s. Pontiac Vibe-rebadged Toyota, you can probably get a better deal on it than a Toyota though. Mini-Cooper- I don’t think this thing has much ground clearance, so I don’t think I’d want one where it snows. Land Rover-They’ve really had a lot of reliability problems. May have improved since Ford bought them, but with a british vehicle I always say: All hail Lucas the prince of darkness! ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/34 "2005-03-22T06:24:17Z")
> [@mike1dog](#): > > Land Rover-They’ve really had a lot of reliability problems. May have improved since Ford bought them, but with a british vehicle I always say: All hail Lucas the prince of darkness! Now, now, Lucas denies that they ever invented darkness. Sudden, unexpected darkness, on the other hand. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/35 "2005-03-22T09:32:45Z")
Another vote for what everyone said. Down with Jeep Subaru is good. WRX I owned and was perfect (though I might note that a solid iron Ford minivan’s rear bumper will cut through your aluminum front end like it was butter.) Down with GM Saab is darn good but expensive–and I would trust that it can handle all the snow you could throw at it Volvo is the most practical car to buy period. Driving one just feels horrible (particularly if you were driving a WRX as your normal car 😃 ) Mini is good, but definitely not much ground clearance and I don’t know I would trust the ground clearance And personally Audi always seemed to me a good buy if you can afford more than a WRX. Much funner than a Volvo and still pretty darn safe. Most people seem to turn down because of the styling or seems preppy or something. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/36 "2005-03-22T09:35:05Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > Mini is good, but definitely not much ground clearance and I don’t know I would trust the ground clearance Hm. Let’s just change that to: Mini is good, but definitely not much ground clearance and I don’t know I would trust it in the snow. \<- ---
**Author:** ![MrFantsyPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MrFantsyPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFantsyPants)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/37 "2005-03-22T12:36:05Z")
> [@Pensandfeathers](#): > > Don’t buy a Jeep of any kind. > > I long for the day where I can get a new (used) car and get rid of my hellish Jeep Wrangler… Just to stand up for Jeep for a sec, I’ve got a '97 Cherokee, bought new. It’s now at about 170k, and other than regular maintenance, has been in once for a belt that died before its time. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/38 "2005-03-22T13:49:35Z")
Considering your list you should also check out a [Chevy Equinox](http://www.chevrolet.com/equinox/). or a [Saturn VUE](http://www.saturn.com/saturn/showroom/vue/) Both are very nice small suvs with reasonable gas mileage. the Hummer H3 looks pretty cool if the 4WD is high on your list, but it’s not out yet. The mileage is supposed to be a lot better than the H2, though that’s not really saying much. People have their opinions… but I don’t understand the verocity of the GM hate here. The Corsica is from 10 years ago from pete’s sake, I don’t think it’s realistic to compare it to a new Forester. In my experience for the past 20 years my family has always owned GM and Chrysler vehicles and have been very satisified with relaibility and service. I love the ‘down with GM’ followed by ‘Saab is darn good’ when Saab is a GM brand There are many GM models that recieve a Consumer Reports ‘Recommended Buy’ ---
**Author:** ![Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b3f665/32.png) [@Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hanna)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/39 "2005-03-22T15:24:36Z")
Speaking of Consumer Reports “recommended by”… I went and bought the April 2005 issue car issue, as was recommended above. To my surprise, many of the cars that people here told me to avoid were recommended by Consumer Reports. The PT Cruiser, the Jeep Liberty, and the Pontiac Vibe all made their recommended list. The Mini did not, because of lower than average reliability (but it does look like more recent models are improving). They loved the Subaru Impreza and it was one of their Top Picks, and the WRX model was rated the “most fun to drive”. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430/40 "2005-03-22T15:24:40Z")
> [@MrFantsyPants](#): > > Just to stand up for Jeep for a sec, I’ve got a '97 Cherokee, bought new. It’s now at about 170k, and other than regular maintenance, has been in once for a belt that died before its time. The Cherokee is a whole different waxy ball than the Liberty. The Cherokee was solid, reliable, if a bit stodgy on the throttle. The Liberty (which replaced it) has more thrust but is in every way an inferior vehicle. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-opinions-on-these-cars/295430.md?page=3)