# Honest Question: Why are the republicans so pissed about this health care thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682 "2010-03-24T22:55:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/201 "2010-03-27T17:03:05Z")
It is not dangerous, and it is not even a precedent. Are you seriously attempting to make an equivalency between the inconvenience of not owning a car, and the the very real consequences of untreated illness? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/202 "2010-03-27T17:03:49Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > State government or Fed government is still government. This is so incredibly simplistic it’s actually painful. You might as well say “Bad government or good government, it’s still government.” ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/203 "2010-03-27T17:17:00Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Maybe I should start selling medical bracelets: > > DO NOT TREAT. I REFUSE UHC FOR MYSELF AND MY FAMILY. > > ETA: Err wait a minute, that should be a tattoo, a bracelet is to easy to remove when needs be. How about adding this to the back of all drivers licenses? **EMERGENCY CARE DIRECTIVES** You must check one or more of the following checkboxes: [ul] [li]I am an organ donor.[/li] [li]I have medical insurance. (If this box is unchecked, refer to previous checkbox)[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/204 "2010-03-27T17:19:40Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Oh, also: The Republicans are pissed because it’s not their bill. They are pissed because they don’t have a majority in Congress. They are pissed because there’s a Democrat in the White House. I think a lot of them, actually, are pissed because there’s a black family in the White House, but of course they wouldn’t say that. This. I swear – ask anyone who knows me – that I am VERY reluctant, as a rule, to ever ascribe anything to racist thinking. But after months of resisting this explanation, I have been forced to conclude that an underlying racist attitude must be an important driver behind what many people have said against “Obamacare”. This saddens me greatly. We’re not talking about something that can be quantified exactly, but the people I’m referring to seem to be around twenty percent of the electorate; that is, perhaps half of the people who are opposed to this health care reform bill. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/205 "2010-03-27T17:40:34Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I’m willing to pay the fine if I decide not to opt in, it’s just that I’m worried if the gov will step in somewhere else saying YOU NEED THIS is all. Based on your posts, I have to disagree with you assessment of your own position on this matter. You contradict yourself that you are being forced to buy something you do not want, then you tell us that you want health insurance, which is what you were being forced to buy that you did not want. You throw out arguments of such stunning cognitive dissonance, such as your attempt to equivocate automobiles with health care, that it seems your only purpose is to argue. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/206 "2010-03-27T17:44:51Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If they do take over the house and Boehner is the speaker, I’m not going to be surprised if they push for impeachment on some trumped up charge. Quite frankly, I see impeachment (or at least the threat of it) as being SOP any time we have a two term president from now on. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/207 "2010-03-27T18:50:29Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > snip > There are many people who are very healthy, such as myself, who don’t need or want health insurance. I would prefer to save the money, see alternative doctors, nutritionists, chiropractors and personal trainers, and spend the extra money on healthy food to eat, rather than spend it on insurance for medical care that I would never use. You may say, “but what if you are in an accident, or get cancer?” Well, I probably won’t because I am very careful and eat healthfully. In a free society, I should be allowed to take that risk. > snip > . You may be very careful, but that doesn’t mean everyone is. Other drivers could injure you in an accident, no matter how careful you yourself have been. And cancer can pop up in anyone. There are certainly ways to reduce the chance of getting it, but nobody is 100% cancer-proof. And then there’s age-related illness. You are aging, no? I really hope you never develop Alzheimer’s or have a stroke or fall and need a hip replacement. But again, you can’t know for sure that these things won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/208 "2010-03-28T11:55:44Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I understand that I will be taxed extra if I don’t buy into it and that there will be exchanges set up by around 2014. I’m just worried about the the whole setup is all. Like I said previously, I don’t make much money and I’m afraid of the extra money taken out of my paycheck. Please don’t misunderstand me, I WANT health insurance. It’s the affordability right now I’m concerned about, exchanges existing or not. As I understand it, there is a provision for people who can’t afford insurance to still get aid from the government. I could be wrong and someone else wo read the bill could correct me, but I think there is a provision for people under a certain income bracket to still get help without penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/209 "2010-03-28T12:16:16Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Quite frankly, I see impeachment (or at least the threat of it) as being SOP any time we have a two term president from now on. Only if the President in question is a Democrat. If Bush demonstrated anything, it’s that there is essentially no limit to what a Republican President can do and just walk away unscathed. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/210 "2010-03-28T13:33:59Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > As I understand it, there is a provision for people who can’t afford insurance to still get aid from the government. I could be wrong and someone else wo read the bill could correct me, but I think there is a provision for people under a certain income bracket to still get help without penalty. You are correct. Most people who make under 50k a year will qualify for tax credits to help pay for the cost of insurance. In addition the new law also limits the amount that people with lower incomes can be charged to a certain %. Also, Catastrophic plans cost as little as 30.00 a month to keep and would thus keep you from having to pay the tax. Theoretically, with the tax credit you could pay for the whole coverage and possibly make a little money back on the deal assuming you don’t become ill as such plans carry very high deductibles and out of pocket costs. Either way, if you went with such a plan of action the gov. would basically pay for you to carry SOME insurance thus alleviating the costs of a catastrophic accident or major illness. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/211 "2010-03-28T16:49:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Only if the President in question is a Democrat. If Bush demonstrated anything, it’s that there is essentially no limit to what a Republican President can do and just walk away unscathed. It does seem that way. Bush was much worse than Obama can ever hope to be. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/212 "2010-03-31T06:04:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “No handouts” IS their alternative. And if that kills you, tough. Helping people in any way is Socialism, and therefore Pure Evil in their eyes. They don’t like Medicare or Social Security, either; in their ideal society the poor and sick would be left to die in the streets. And as well, they oppose anything whatsoever proposed under Obama, anything he supports regardless of its necessity, worth, or whether they themselves have supported it in the past. > > You seem to want some answer that makes them look like reasonable, moral people with good reasons for their behavior; the answer is, they aren’t and there isn’t. The point is simple: there is no authority in the Constitution for the federal government to implement Obamacare, Social Security or Medicare. Period. And fuck you and the horse you rode in on with that “in their ideal society the poor and sick would be left to die in the streets” bullshit. In an ideal society, even fucking morons like you would understand that it is not the government’s place to provide healthcare or social security. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/213 "2010-03-31T06:12:37Z")
Is that a Trifecta? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/214 "2010-03-31T06:17:03Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The point is simple: there is no authority in the Constitution for the federal government to implement Obamacare, Social Security or Medicare. Period. Wrong. > [@](#): > > And fuck you and the horse you rode in on with that “in their ideal society the poor and sick would be left to die in the streets” bullshit. In an ideal society, even fucking morons like you would understand that it is not the government’s place to provide healthcare or social security. Dude, we’re not in the pit. It’s the government’s place to ensure that health care is available. Just like they make sure that healthy food is available. Currently insurance companies don’t make health insurance available to millions of people. They make it impossible to purchase coverage for a large portion of the populace. The government’s job is to make sure that things like that are fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/215 "2010-03-31T06:55:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And fuck you and the horse you rode in on with that “in their ideal society the poor and sick would be left to die in the streets” bullshit. In an ideal society, even fucking morons like you would understand that it is not the government’s place to provide healthcare or social security. Uhhh . . . _“The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States”_ ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/216 "2010-03-31T07:46:52Z")
The irony of course is that the final bill that passed is a lot like the [Republican health care plan](http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2010/February/23/GOP-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx) they proposed as an alternative to Clinton’s plan back in 1993. e.g. > [@Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993](#): > > **Subtitle F: Universal Coverage** - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program Hopefully next time they get on the Hypocrisy Horse more people will notice. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/217 "2010-03-31T09:21:17Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The point is simple: there is no authority in the Constitution for the federal government to implement Obamacare, Social Security or Medicare. Period. Wrong, as pointed out. > [@Clothahump](#): > > And fuck you and the horse you rode in on with that “in their ideal society the poor and sick would be left to die in the streets” bullshit. In an ideal society, even fucking morons like you would understand that it is not the government’s place to provide healthcare or social security. :dubious: Um. You just denounced me for claiming exactly what you say in the very next sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/218 "2010-03-31T10:54:36Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And fuck you and the horse you rode in on with that “in their ideal society the poor and sick would be left to die in the streets” bullshit. In an ideal society, even fucking morons like you would understand that it is not the government’s place to provide healthcare or social security. You’re not allowed to insult other posters in Great Debates, **Clothahump**. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![IClaudius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c37758/32.png) [@IClaudius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IClaudius)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/219 "2010-03-31T11:36:54Z")
[http://www.pennumbra.com/debates/debate.php?did=23](http://www.pennumbra.com/debates/debate.php?did=23) The debate linked above covers the legal wrangling over healthcare in good detail. I think it’s pretty clear Balkin is on the firmer terrain in regards to the modern jurisprudence for the tax and commerce clauses. If you combine that context, ie. decent controlling precedents, with the pro-business (cf. libertarian) nature of Alito and Scalia, I think you’ve got a fairly predictable majority against invalidating the mandate. That’s if, and it’s a big if, the states’ suits aren’t dismissed on standing or ripeness, etc., in any event. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/220 "2010-03-31T12:16:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > …They portrayed Obama as a Socialist-Marxist-Facist who is a muslim with a racist christian pastor. He was not born in the US,and is a pretender to the presidency. He is inherently evil, and just may be the Antichrist who is determined to destroy the country. > … He isn’t? Damn, that’s why I voted for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682.md?page=12)