# Honest Question: Why are the republicans so pissed about this health care thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682 "2010-03-24T22:55:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/101 "2010-03-26T07:04:19Z")
Besides, who cares about who’s in control of the government, so long as its bigger! ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/102 "2010-03-26T10:52:20Z")
Democrats defend the opposite of what they actually wanted but their corporate bought representatives fought hard for, pointing out to hysterical Republicans that it’s actually pretty similar to Romneycare and there are a lot of Republican amendments. Wait, who’s the dupe again? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/103 "2010-03-26T11:17:00Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Democrats defend the opposite of what they actually wanted but their corporate bought representatives fought hard for, pointing out to hysterical Republicans that it’s actually pretty similar to Romneycare and there are a lot of Republican amendments. > > Wait, who’s the dupe again? The Republicans, since they seem to be outright delusional about the subject. The general response I see from the left boils down to “it’s better than nothing. Barely.” That’s not much of a “defense”. As opposed to the lunatic Republican frothing about socialism, the Antichrist, death panels, the end of freedom, and threats of violence. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/104 "2010-03-26T12:27:55Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > I am not a Republican, yet I see this health care bill as a disaster. Our country is bankrupt. There IS NO MONEY. As we are seeing throughout the country, government is unable to deliver on their promises any longer and the infrastructure is crumbling around them. Just look at California. From any perspective, liberal, conservative, independent, libertarian, this is a disaster. This mandates EVERYONE buy insurance from the insurance companies. This gives more power to the insurance companies. It does everything possible to perpetuate the exact same system we have today. For those who support it let me ask you this: What is the more ethical and compassionate option for our government at this point, to promise people and make claims that they can deliver goods and services that they really can’t and sucker people into an insolvent system that will eventually quit working due to fiscal reality setting in leaving people TRULY out of luck, or coming clean with people and cutting back on spending and transitioning people towards private savings accounts or other non-government alternatives while striving to take care of those truly dependent on the system? It seems an easy choice to me, yet when I hear the liberals taking the moral high ground it really pisses me off because I can see that those who truly believe that our Federal Government can follow through on its commitments will be in the worst shape when that illusion is shattered. > > A major reason for our economic crisis is the fact that our government is completely insolvent and unable to fulfill its commitments. We need to reform Medicare and Social Security, not pretend that we can cover millions more! As I’ve said, I am an Independent, but one thing that bothers me about the liberals especially is that they seem to think that the laws of economics don’t apply to the government. They just say “the government will pay”. Well where does the government get the money to pay for something? They either steal it from someone else or debase the money by printing more of it causing the standard of living to go down for everyone. Then there is more who need assistance, thus perpetuating a fraudulant system, and accelerating our national bankruptcy. The only way out is accepting the fact that we need to balance the budget, cut spending across the board and live within our means. If we don’t do this the only inevitable consequence is hyperinflation and the destruction of our currency. This is what we are on the verge of. Many great economists and trends forecasters see this coming within a few years. This new health care legislation will only accelerate the process. > > What this health care bill does is put a government bureaucrat between you and your doctor, eliminates medical independence, privacy, and patient choice. It gives the Health Insurance Industry massive new power over our medical system. Why not allow medical freedom once again? Why not allow people to seek safer, alternative treatments, and natural supplements to treat illness? Why should we force them into a “sick-care” system which promotes needless surgery and harmful prescription drugs? > > There are many people who are very healthy, such as myself, who don’t need or want health insurance. I would prefer to save the money, see alternative doctors, nutritionists, chiropractors and personal trainers, and spend the extra money on healthy food to eat, rather than spend it on insurance for medical care that I would never use. You may say, “but what if you are in an accident, or get cancer?” Well, I probably won’t because I am very careful and eat healthfully. In a free society, I should be allowed to take that risk. > > So, there are many objections. The main one obviously is that we are completely broke. This will just accelerate the bankruptcy that is inevitable. When gas is $8 a gallon and a loaf of bread is $15, ask yourself whether it was worth it to have a massive subsidy to the Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industries in the form of health “reform” People are so ignorant of the economic implications of government meddling. Your point of being healthy now can seem like a good argument. I have a friend who’s sister ate only healty foods excerised every day and died at the age of 60 from cancer. Eating healthy and living a healthy life style is a commenable thing, but it is no proof of a long life, unexpected things come up we have no control over. One can fall and get hurt badly. One never knows what the next year may bring. If one had enough money saved to cover any unexpected illiness, say if they are a trillionaire,then they wouldn’t need health insurance. One could say they do not need flood,car or fire Insurance either, but one would sure be glad if they had it, should the unexpected arise. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/105 "2010-03-26T13:18:23Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > - “A mandate that individuals buy insurance, subsidies for the poor to buy insurance and the requirement that insurers offer a standard benefits package and refrain from discriminating based on pre-existing conditions were **all in the 1993 GOP bill**.”\* Wow. I didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/106 "2010-03-26T14:16:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its always like that, pretty much. Any progressive action is fought tooth and nail, hammer and tong. We fight like hell, demand everything, settle for less than we want, swear never to ask for anything more, and start committees to ask for more. > > Its far too slow, agonizingly slow, but we don’t have to shoot anybody to get our way. That’s a good thing. “Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing . . . after they have exhausted all other possibilities.” – Winston Churchill ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/107 "2010-03-26T14:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Please, at least quote my name when you address me. When you use the ubiquitous ‘they’ you shift part of the hysterical blame on yourself. Radio talk show hosts and political pundits (from both sides) apparently feel no shame in spouting diarrhea, but every adult in this country should. Don’t take this personal, Sitnam, but I have no idea who you are and what you’ve been saying about health care. But I doubt that, behind your username, you’re a nationally known conservative pundit or a spokesman for the Republican party. So what you’ve said about healthcare is not really part of the national debate on the subject. “They” are the talk show hosts and pundits and elected officials - they’re the face of the conservative movement. And they have been acting like unprincipled idiots. And they’ve been doing it long enough that the conservative rank and file have had all the opportunity it needs to disavow them if it chose and seek a more principled group to represent it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/108 "2010-03-26T14:22:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Wow. I didn’t know that. But you’ll be hearing a lot about it in the future. In ten years when public health care is successful and popular, the Republicans will use this fact to claim all the credit for it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/109 "2010-03-26T14:49:39Z")
No matter how you spin it, I am being forced to buy into something I do not want. And be penalized in the process if I do not buy it. It’s NOT the same as paying for police protection, roads or what have you. It’s more akin to buying automobile insurance (and yes, I do realize its state not Fed mandated). If I choose not to drive, then I do not have to purchase it. I know you’re all HUGE O’Reilly fans here… but this Dem dodged the question 5 times: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw) ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/110 "2010-03-26T14:55:01Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I believe (note the caveat) that a lot of the current HRC bill comes from a similar proposal from the Republicans in 1993 (it would be ironic, if true). Sorry, can’t look this up as I’m at the air port and my phone sucks for doing research. > > More recently, the Republicans (not that Republican=conservative, but I figured that’s what you meant) tried to focus first on Social Security reform, instead of HCR. 6 to 1, half dozen to the other, but they did try. Now, you might not think that their plan was good, and certainly they were unable to get it passed, unlike this one, but I think it’s incorrect to say that they haven’t tried at all to reform some of the systemic faults in our system.-XT That proposal was a reaction to Clinton’s healthcare proposal at the time and they couldn’t even get more than 20 Republicans to support it. I think it’s a stretch to call that a ‘big conservative push to ensure that healthcare is available and affordable to everybody in the country.’ They do deserve credit for offering an actual compromise instead of just trying to throw a monkey wrench into every gear they can find. I think it’s interesting (depressing) that the current bill that causes republicans to scream ‘socialist government takeover’ was described then by John Chafee, a republican, as a grab for the center. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/111 "2010-03-26T14:58:17Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] But you’ll be hearing a lot about it in the future. In ten years when public health care is successful and popular, the Republicans will use this fact to claim all the credit for it. [/QUOTE] Good luck with that! After the way they have played things so far during this bill? I seriously doubt they will be able to spin this in a positive way down the road. If THIS bill is successful then all the credit is going to fall on the Dems and Obama. All of it. Of course, if it’s not successful, or if the Republicans can spin it so that it seems unsuccessful (two different things) then the Dems and Obama are going to get all the blame. Who is in power in the US for the next 20 years or so may very well hinge on the outcome of this thing. Say what you like about Obama, but he has big brass ones afaiac. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/112 "2010-03-26T14:59:51Z")
Aha!! That’s the part of the legislative trick you do not get. The idea is to get your foot wedged in between the door of UHC, and with time swing it wide open. This country will be dragged kicking and screaming (maybe not) to UHC. It will happen. Next up… THE PUBLIC OPTION PLAN. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/113 "2010-03-26T15:06:57Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > No matter how you spin it, I am being forced to buy into something I do not want. And be penalized in the process if I do not buy it. It’s NOT the same as paying for police protection, roads or what have you. It’s more akin to buying automobile insurance (and yes, I do realize its state not Fed mandated). If I choose not to drive, then I do not have to purchase it. I know you’re all HUGE O’Reilly fans here… but this Dem dodged the question 5 times: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw) More like pay for something that you will need that when you need it and you ain’t covered by Insurance for it, the rest of us pay for your treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/114 "2010-03-26T15:09:01Z")
Then why have a bill at all if that’s happening in the first place? What’s next? You can’t make it to work? Should I pay for your cab fare? ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/115 "2010-03-26T15:25:18Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Then why have a bill at all if that’s happening in the first place? What’s next? You can’t make it to work? Should I pay for your cab fare? Not the same thing sir. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/116 "2010-03-26T15:34:01Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > No matter how you spin it, I am being forced to buy into something I do not want. And be penalized in the process if I do not buy it. It’s NOT the same as paying for police protection, roads or what have you. It’s more akin to buying automobile insurance (and yes, I do realize its state not Fed mandated). If I choose not to drive, then I do not have to purchase it. I know you’re all HUGE O’Reilly fans here… but this Dem dodged the question 5 times: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw) Sure, you can avoid driving, but you cannot avoid health care. Well I suppose you could, but seriously, unless youare willing to forgo all healthcare then the analogy fails with auto insurance. Plus ask yourself, WHY is it mandatory for drivers? Yes you can avoid it by not driving, but health care cannot be avoided, in any realistic way. It iis mandatory so that folks do not add costs or take advantage of the system when they do get sick or injured. May I ask, what do you plan on doing if you do need the emergency room and an extended hospital stay? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/117 "2010-03-26T15:57:08Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > No matter how you spin it, I am being forced to buy into something I do not want. And be penalized in the process if I do not buy it. It’s NOT the same as paying for police protection, roads or what have you. It’s more akin to buying automobile insurance (and yes, I do realize its state not Fed mandated). If I choose not to drive, then I do not have to purchase it. I know you’re all HUGE O’Reilly fans here… but this Dem dodged the question 5 times: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw) The point is that if you are alive, then you need health care, or will eventually. Since that is true of everyone, universally, it makes sense to have everyone pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/118 "2010-03-26T16:27:06Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The point is that if you are alive, then you need health care, or will eventually. Since that is true of everyone, universally, it makes sense to have everyone pay for it. I hear what you’re saying, and on the surface, you’re right. Everyone’s health fails at some point. But, as you put it, “it is true of everyone”; this can be applied to many things in life and it sets a dangerous precedent does it not? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/119 "2010-03-26T16:33:22Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I hear what you’re saying, and on the surface, you’re right. Everyone’s health fails at some point. But, as you put it, “it is true of everyone”; this can be applied to many things in life and it sets a dangerous precedent does it not? Such as…? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/120 "2010-03-26T16:36:46Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I hear what you’re saying, and on the surface, you’re right. Everyone’s health fails at some point. But, as you put it, “it is true of everyone”; this can be applied to many things in life and it sets a dangerous precedent does it not? It might be OK if you did not have health insurance as long as you had to pay cash up-front for all medical services. If you ever did require services, and you did not have the cash to pay (accident, serious illness), then you would be not even allowed entry to a hospital. Most people have deemed though, that they do not want to live in a society where one has to step over corpses to get to work (unless they work as a tax attorney, then it’s OK with them) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682.md?page=7)