# Honest Question: Why are the republicans so pissed about this health care thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682 "2010-03-24T22:55:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/121 "2010-03-26T16:39:40Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Such as…? I dunno, eating, having a solid roof over your head, access to getting to work, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/122 "2010-03-26T16:39:54Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I hear what you’re saying, and on the surface, you’re right. Everyone’s health fails at some point. But, as you put it, “it is true of everyone”; this can be applied to many things in life and it sets a dangerous precedent does it not? Is making people pay their fair share a dangerous precedent? Unless you plan on dying early and inexpensively, you will eventually need more health care than you can pay for out of your pocket. You can consider this as investing in an annuity you will get when you get older. You don’t get money from the annuity unless you pay in, same here. You also get the benefit of insurance now, which is not limited to the dollars it pays - if that were true, no one would buy life insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/123 "2010-03-26T16:47:41Z")
Here’s what’s bothering me… my payment (if I paid) for my company’s insurance plan is $300 a month. I don’t make much money so I refused to buy into it. Will my employer be approaching me soon saying, sorry buddy, you HAVE to pay into it now? I really can’t afford it right now. THAT’s what scares me. It isn’t that I don’t want health insurance, it’s that extra 300.00 a month for bills, rent, food etc. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/124 "2010-03-26T16:50:49Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > 1. I would like the government to have as little say in my life as possible because I can manage my life far better than an impersonal bureaucracy. I believe this to be true for the vast majority of people. > > 2. My interactions with big government tend to be negative. They are categorized by massive waste, arbitrariness, and dehumanization. > > 3. I believe that laws and government should be kept to the minimum necessary to maximize freedom. Yeah, I used to think like that too, until I realized that in most cases I don’t have a say in those things that government gets out of; corporations do. Government may be an evil, but in this case it’s the lesser of two evils. At least the government has to answer to the polls. Corporations aren’t people and don’t answer to shit except profit, which is almost never in my best interest. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/125 "2010-03-26T17:12:16Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Here’s what’s bothering me… my payment (if I paid) for my company’s insurance plan is $300 a month. I don’t make much money so I refused to buy into it. Will my employer be approaching me soon saying, sorry buddy, you HAVE to pay into it now? I really can’t afford it right now. THAT’s what scares me. It isn’t that I don’t want health insurance, it’s that extra 300.00 a month for bills, rent, food etc. Depending on how much you make, you might qualify for a tax credit to help offset the added expense. You can look at [this calculator](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/) to get an estimate. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/126 "2010-03-26T17:25:15Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Here’s what’s bothering me… my payment (if I paid) for my company’s insurance plan is $300 a month. I don’t make much money so I refused to buy into it. Will my employer be approaching me soon saying, sorry buddy, you HAVE to pay into it now? I really can’t afford it right now. THAT’s what scares me. It isn’t that I don’t want health insurance, it’s that extra 300.00 a month for bills, rent, food etc. The new law has subsidies for those who can’t afford it. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/127 "2010-03-26T17:27:12Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Here’s what’s bothering me… my payment (if I paid) for my company’s insurance plan is $300 a month. I don’t make much money so I refused to buy into it. Will my employer be approaching me soon saying, sorry buddy, you HAVE to pay into it now? I really can’t afford it right now. THAT’s what scares me. It isn’t that I don’t want health insurance, it’s that extra 300.00 a month for bills, rent, food etc. > [@Terraplane](#): > > Depending on how much you make, you might qualify for a tax credit to help offset the added expense. You can look at [this calculator](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/) to get an estimate. Darth, yes you will be asked to sign up by 2014 at the latest. The new insurance exchanges will offer four different plans, bronze, silver, gold and platinum. Your employer might do the same and offer a lower-cost plan like a bronze plan. If not you could purchase a basic bronze plan from the new exchanges. .. and as noted, you might qualify for a tax credit. If you still choose to not sign up, you will pay a tax what will help cover the costs of treatment you might get. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/128 "2010-03-26T18:04:20Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I dunno, eating, having a solid roof over your head, access to getting to work, etc… Ah yes, the slippery slope that we have been on for decades with food stamps, public housing, roads and public transportation. You still haven’t answered my question about what you, with no insurance, plan to do if you get seriosuly injured or sick. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/129 "2010-03-26T18:39:32Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Ah yes, the slippery slope that we have been on for decades with food stamps, public housing, roads and public transportation. You still haven’t answered my question about what you, with no insurance, plan to do if you get seriosuly injured or sick. You missed my above post… it’s not that I don’t WANT health insurance, Gangster, it’s just that atm I can’t afford my company’s plan. Hopefully, when the new bill kicks in with the exchange options I’ll be on a more financially stable footing. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/130 "2010-03-26T18:44:49Z")
And as far as public housing, a buddy of mine waited a month before a room was available to him. So he lived in a tent out in the woods until then. Public transportation? You’re kidding, right? Buses just pull up to anyone’s door? Try living in North Jersey where you’re pretty much SOFL unless you’re closer to urban areas. Fact of the matter is, New Jersey Transit RAISED fare rates WHILE cutting all Morris County bus routes. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/131 "2010-03-26T21:05:59Z")
Basically, [this guy says](http://nyti.ms/aubucp) what I’ve been thinking. The republicans are looking like asses and not really helping the country at all with the way they are handling this. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/132 "2010-03-26T21:10:05Z")
And just how would you suggest they handle it so as to continue to oppose it (which they must do for reasons of their values) and yet still gain your approval and admiration? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/133 "2010-03-26T21:20:14Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Yeah, I used to think like that too, until I realized that in most cases I don’t have a say in those things that government gets out of; corporations do. Government may be an evil, but in this case it’s the lesser of two evils. At least the government has to answer to the polls. Corporations aren’t people and don’t answer to shit except profit, which is almost never in my best interest. Funny, I like Corps better than Gov, because Corps answer to competition. At least if I don’t like Aetna I can switch to Blue Shield. Replacing the IRS or the DMV is not an alternative, hence their is no check on their bloated nature or abuses. The profit motive seems to get beaten up unfairly. Lots of companies make good profits charging a fair price for an essential product: KMB, CL, etc etc. The real evil isn’t profit, it’s bureaucracy. Companies get out of control when they’re run for the benefit of their management as opposed to their shareholders. That’s when the real abuses, the real waste and the real evil occurs. Govs are more prone to bureaucracy bloat where they run for their own benefits and those at the top because they are not answerable on the level a corporation is. You can’t switch. You have no regulation on a government other than itself. Those on the left will often moan (with some justification) that SROs are oxymorons, but that’s all the government is. Most any government organization that was created to help me, first protects itself, provides salaries and meaning to its own employees, and then typically makes me jump through hoops, do all the work, and act like it’s doing me a favor to take my money for a driver’s license or somesuch. I don’t want more bureacracy. I want less. In the private sector I at least have some competition and can opt out. In the private sector if enough people get frustrated with a provider it creates a market opportunity for an enterpriser with an alternative. But… I’m stuck with the government monopoly. I have to do what it tells me to do. I have to take it right up the ass without alternative. That sucks. So thank you, I prefer the profit motive over the uncaring, self-interested, bloated, omnipotent, baleful, tentacularly inescapable clutches of government. ---
**Author:** ![capeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@capeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capeo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/134 "2010-03-26T21:21:06Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > No matter how you spin it, I am being forced to buy into something I do not want. And be penalized in the process if I do not buy it. It’s NOT the same as paying for police protection, roads or what have you. It’s more akin to buying automobile insurance (and yes, I do realize its state not Fed mandated). If I choose not to drive, then I do not have to purchase it. I know you’re all HUGE O’Reilly fans here… but this Dem dodged the question 5 times: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O6Jk7icfMw) No, you’re being forced to pay for your share of something you WILL use and if at that time you weren’t insured we’d all foot the, more expensive, bill for. So, thanks in advance for saving me some loot. It is the exact same thing as paying taxes for any other public service be it firemen, cops, whatever. You have the right to not be insured? Does that mean a hospital has the right to turn you away after a horrible car accident? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/135 "2010-03-26T21:24:53Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > Basically, [this guy says](http://nyti.ms/aubucp) what I’ve been thinking. The republicans are looking like asses and not really helping the country at all with the way they are handling this. Ya, but what does Paul Krugman know about anything anyway? It’s not like he’s written any articles or books or anything. Stupid Nobel prize committee was probably high on mushrooms when they awarded him the prize. Hippies. ---
**Author:** ![capeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@capeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capeo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/136 "2010-03-26T21:27:06Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Funny, I like Corps better than Gov, because Corps answer to competition. At least if I don’t like Aetna I can switch to Blue Shield. Replacing the IRS or the DMV is not an alternative, hence their is no check on their bloated nature or abuses. > > The profit motive seems to get beaten up unfairly. Lots of companies make good profits charging a fair price for an essential product: KMB, CL, etc etc. > > The real evil isn’t profit, it’s bureaucracy. Companies get out of control when they’re run for the benefit of their management as opposed to their shareholders. That’s when the real abuses, the real waste and the real evil occurs. Govs are more prone to bureaucracy bloat where they run for their own benefits and those at the top because they are not answerable on the level a corporation is. You can’t switch. You have no regulation on a government other than itself. Those on the left will often moan (with some justification) that SROs are oxymorons, but that’s all the government is. > > Most any government organization that was created to help me, first protects itself, provides salaries and meaning to its own employees, and then typically makes me jump through hoops, do all the work, and act like it’s doing me a favor to take my money for a driver’s license or somesuch. > > I don’t want more bureacracy. I want less. In the private sector I at least have some competition and can opt out. In the private sector if enough people get frustrated with a provider it creates a market opportunity for an enterpriser with an alternative. > > But… I’m stuck with the government monopoly. I have to do what it tells me to do. I have to take it right up the ass without alternative. > > That sucks. > So thank you, I prefer the profit motive over the uncaring, self-interested, bloated, omnipotent, baleful, tentacularly inescapable clutches of government. What is up with people? Did universal healthcare get passed while I was asleep? You CAN switch to any insurance provider you want. Jeebus. And you’re right. Corps are beholden to their shareholders… and only their shareholders. Not us. They do every underhanded thing they can to make a profit at our expense, get ridiculously rich, and cause economic meltdown while they flit away to their island homes. Thanks, but I like the CHOICE of a government plan or a private plan when that choice is available. Keeps everyone more honest. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/137 "2010-03-26T21:28:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And just how would you suggest they handle it so as to continue to oppose it (which they must do for reasons of their values) and yet still gain your approval and admiration? They could start by not trying to stop other government activity that has nothing to do with the Health Care Bill. They could stop using nonsense rhetoric like “armegeddon” and “socialism” and “End of America”. Just some ideas about not acting like spoiled children. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/138 "2010-03-26T21:33:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And just how would you suggest they handle it so as to continue to oppose it (which they must do for reasons of their values) and yet still gain your approval and admiration? How about if they actually do their jobs? Opposing every single thing about the elected government just because they’re the opposition does not seem to be productive, nor in the best interests of the electorate. Right now, the GOP is not just the party of “NO”, they are officially the [Party of “HELL NO”](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/26/palin-mccain-rally-in-ari_n_515026.html) ETA: And yes, as Gangster Octopus says, the politicos can stop with the overblown rhetoric with nasty imagery that just appeals to the more challenged portion of the party. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/139 "2010-03-26T21:34:06Z")
Well, this thread passed me by. Oh well. Can’t post as much as I used to. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682/140 "2010-03-26T22:11:18Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Funny, I like Corps better than Gov, because Corps answer to competition. At least if I don’t like Aetna I can switch to Blue Shield. Replacing the IRS or the DMV is not an alternative, hence their is no check on their bloated nature or abuses. > > The profit motive seems to get beaten up unfairly. Lots of companies make good profits charging a fair price for an essential product: KMB, CL, etc etc. > > The real evil isn’t profit, it’s bureaucracy. Companies get out of control when they’re run for the benefit of their management as opposed to their shareholders. That’s when the real abuses, the real waste and the real evil occurs. Govs are more prone to bureaucracy bloat where they run for their own benefits and those at the top because they are not answerable on the level a corporation is. You can’t switch. You have no regulation on a government other than itself. Those on the left will often moan (with some justification) that SROs are oxymorons, but that’s all the government is. It’s definitely true that efficiency is much worse when the corporations/bureacracies are not working for the shareholders/people. But corporations don’t profit the most when they outcompete the competition. They profit the most when there is no competition. Government can help out with that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honest-question-why-are-the-republicans-so-pissed-about-this-health-care-thing/533682.md?page=8)