# Honestly, Honesty **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289 "2013-08-04T01:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/41 "2013-08-11T07:23:25Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > True, Honesty is solid on genetics. Do you agree that there are many genetic differences among humans which do in fact lead to different proteins being synthesized? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/42 "2013-08-11T07:25:55Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Absolutely. I’m no expert, but I have a BS in molecular biology which helps me to detect when somebody is either full of shit, or knows what they are talking about. Do you agree that there are many genetic differences among humans which do in fact lead to different proteins being synthesized? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/43 "2013-08-11T07:30:13Z")
Nevermind ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/44 "2013-08-11T07:35:00Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Nevermind Most reasonable post you’ve made all thread.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/45 "2013-08-11T08:54:57Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > By the way, I do not engage with **Honesty** due to his past dishonesty. What did Honesty do that was dishonest? > [@](#): > > **brazil84** > I don’t engage with this poster because of his insistence on hiding his position behind a cloak of ambiguity. Huh? What does that even mean? Can you link to the post **Evil Economist** posted that offended you? > [@](#): > > **brazil84** > I do not engage with this poster due to his past dishonesty. What did Colibri do that was dishonest? Thank you in advance. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/46 "2013-08-11T09:45:38Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Do you agree that there are many genetic differences among humans which do in fact lead to different proteins being synthesized? Well, yes. Obviously. That’s introduction to human genetics 101. I fear that people on both sides are using this simple fact to argue bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/47 "2013-08-11T10:42:26Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Well, yes. Obviously. That’s introduction to human genetics 101. Thank you for answering. And you agree that if **Honesty** had stated or implied otherwise, it shows a stunning lack of comprehension of human genetics on his part? > [@](#): > > I fear that people on both sides are using this simple fact to argue bullshit. That’s a reasonable fear. One way to deal with this kind of fear is to look at the actual underlying facts of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/48 "2013-08-11T12:22:12Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Thanks!! And another nice attempt at changing the subject too. It’s not changing the subject, genius. You brought up your stupid rules of debate by mentioning that you don’t interact with someone. You had no reason to do this, as you can simply just not interact with them. Since you brought it up in the thread, it becomes fair game to tell you that we think the whole thing is stupid–particularly the part where you constantly tell us you aren’t engaging with us. Also, I deliberately tried to get on your list in the past, when I was much more annoyed with you. (I thank you for becoming a less annoying poster by avoiding a topic that offends everyone and you know you won’t convince anyone of.) So I do think the idea that you use your rules to avoid debates you can’t win is at least possible. The other possibility being, of course, that I’ve failed in breaking your rules since I did it entirely as a form of insult. But, still, that does make your rules rather subjective and open to abuse, even if unintentional. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/49 "2013-08-11T14:08:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s not changing the subject, genius. I disagree since the topic of this thread is **Honesty**. When I mention that I don’t interact with someone, I generally keep my statement short and I do not respond to the person further in the same thread. > [@](#): > > So I do think the idea that you use your rules to avoid debates you can’t win is at least possible. Well it depends what you mean by “win.” I have no interest in engaging with someone who insists on weaseling, strawmanning, and so forth. In a sense, you can’t “win” against someone who doesn’t argue against your actual position but instead argues against a position he wishes or imagines that you would take. > [@](#): > > The other possibility being, of course, that I’ve failed in breaking your rules since I did it entirely as a form of insult. But, still, that does make your rules rather subjective and open to abuse, even if unintentional. I agree that it’s difficult to apply the rules perfectly consistently but I really do try. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/50 "2013-08-11T17:33:57Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Well it depends what you mean by “win.” I have no interest in engaging with someone who insists on weaseling, strawmanning, and so forth. > > In a sense, you can’t “win” against someone who doesn’t argue against your actual position but instead argues against a position he wishes or imagines that you would take. In other words, someone who employs your own tactics. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/51 "2013-08-11T17:39:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In other words, someone who employs your own tactics. BTW **Colibri** , as he is ignoring you I wonder, is \*\*Honesty \*\*completely off the wall on his post about protein syntheses? It seems to me that he is more on the money but I want to hear a little from a biology expert like you. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/52 "2013-08-11T17:54:14Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I agree that it’s difficult to apply the rules perfectly consistently but I really do try. I do not engage with this poster because he’s an utter fucking moron. Ridicule, however is certainly on the table. Such as how he tries to consistently apply his “rules”. The only consistency I’ve ever seen him display is in interpreting his rules in such a way that it allows him to duck out of a debate he’s losing, and unilaterally declare victory. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/53 "2013-08-11T17:57:10Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > The only consistency I’ve ever seen him display is in interpreting his rules in such a way that it allows him to duck out of a debate he’s losing, and unilaterally declare victory. Please provide 3 examples of this with cites quotes and links. (Of course I don’t seriously expect you to back up your claims, but I feel honor-bound to give you a chance.) ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/54 "2013-08-11T18:01:44Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Please provide 3 examples of this with cites quotes and links. (Of course I don’t seriously expect you to back up your claims, but I feel honor-bound to give you a chance.) You are so funny. This isn’t GD, it’s the pit. Everyone knows you are a dishonest cowardly moron who couldn’t debate a shoe. It doesn’t need a citation. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/55 "2013-08-11T18:06:57Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Please provide 3 examples of this with cites quotes and links. (Of course I don’t seriously expect you to back up your claims, but I feel honor-bound to give you a chance.) While you’re waiting, could you please answer my question from earlier. by showing where the posters broke your rules. I’ll repost it here. > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by brazil84 > By the way, I do not engage with Honesty due to his past dishonesty. > What did Honesty do that was dishonest? > > Quote: > brazil84 > I don’t engage with this poster because of his insistence on hiding his position behind a cloak of ambiguity. > Huh? What does that even mean? Can you link to the post Evil Economist posted that offended you? > > Quote: > brazil84 > I do not engage with this poster due to his past dishonesty. > What did Colibri do that was dishonest? > > Thank you in advance. This would really help us in terms of evaluating your judgement and credibility. Once again, thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/56 "2013-08-11T18:22:21Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > You are so funny. Thank you!! > [@](#): > > It doesn’t need a citation. Lol, I’m free to ask for backup and you are free to make unsupported conclusions. But none of this changes the fact that **Honesty** is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/57 "2013-08-11T18:43:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > BTW **Colibri** , as he is ignoring you I wonder, is \*\*Honesty \*\*completely off the wall on his post about protein syntheses? It seems to me that he is more on the money but I want to hear a little from a biology expert like you. If you are referring to **Honesty’s** post #12 in this thread, it is quite correct. Most point mutations are either silent (involving redundant codons), affect non-coding parts of the DNA, or cause lethal changes in the protein synthesized. The majority of genetic differences between populations are going to involve such invisible variation, rather than differences that code for proteins. Other genetic differences may result in differences in gene regulation rather than actual changes in the proteins produced. This is not to say that _some_ of the genetic variation between populations doesn’t result in differences in _some_ proteins, but it’s not the predominant kind of variation. At least from that post, **Honesty** knows more about genetics than **brazil84** does, but I think the average raccoon knows more than **brazil84**. Incidentally, **brazil84** can’t put me on ignore because I’m a mod. The downside of this is that I can’t put him on ignore either. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/58 "2013-08-11T18:50:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Incidentally, **brazil84** can’t put me on ignore because I’m a mod. The downside of this is that I can’t put him on ignore either. Now there’s a humorous idea. “This post is hidden because ( **poster name** ) is on the Global Ignore List.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/59 "2013-08-11T18:51:33Z")
Thanks **Colibri** , indeed my motto is to consult the experts before going about declaring some one to be stupid, as \*\*brasil84 \*\*demonstrates once again he fits the definition of the [Dunning-Kruger](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) effect. He is unskilled and unaware of it. Although after several years of seeing him it is clear that he is worse, he is a willful ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/60 "2013-08-11T19:12:32Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Now there’s a humorous idea. > > “This post is hidden because ( **poster name** ) is on the Global Ignore List.” > > 😃 vBulletin does have that facility, called [Tachy goes to Coventry.](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tachy%20Goes%20To%20Coventry) We don’t use the option here, but it would be particularly amusing to use it for **brazil84** , since he must have most of the rest of the board on Ignore by now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289.md?page=4)