# Honesty Experiments **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493 "2011-08-04T18:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wood\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Wood\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/1 "2011-08-04T18:58:33Z")
A major bank in Australia says they conducted honesty experiments. Link - [http://www.adverblog.com/2011/08/01/the-honesty-experiments/](http://www.adverblog.com/2011/08/01/the-honesty-experiments/) Are people really this ‘honest’? Firstly I think they need are new word. Giving back money to someone who drops it - is this honesty or something else? Of course the whole advertising campaigns would not work if the results said that only 20% of people returned the money. I think many people realise these days that every where they go they are on camera. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/2 "2011-08-04T19:04:14Z")
I have to admit not correcting clerks when they give me too much change, but I also tell people they’ve dropped money. One time, I entered a bank vestibule late at night to use the ATM. A middle-aged woman at the machine looked at me suspiciously and to reduce the invasion of her personal space, I stood as far back as possible until she was done. As I approached the machine and she headed for the door, I called her back to tell her she’d left a twenty in the bin. She returned for it and left, didn’t say a word. ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Wood\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/3 "2011-08-04T19:06:33Z")
Not sure that link is working. Try searching for ‘NAB honesty experiments’ or here - [http://www.contagiousmagazine.com/2011/07/nab.php](http://www.contagiousmagazine.com/2011/07/nab.php) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/4 "2011-08-04T19:09:17Z")
> [@Wood\_Man](#): > > Firstly I think they need are new word. Giving back money to someone who drops it - is this honesty or something else? Why wouldn’t it be honesty? Taking something that doesn’t belong to you is stealing. ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Wood\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/5 "2011-08-04T19:13:39Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Why wouldn’t it be honesty? Taking something that doesn’t belong to you is stealing. Is honesty the opposite of stealing? ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/6 "2011-08-04T19:14:27Z")
[This](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/20/honest-tea-honest-cities_n_904493.html)experiment/ad campaign seems to suggest people are pretty honest. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/7 "2011-08-04T19:20:53Z")
> [@Wood\_Man](#): > > Is honesty the opposite of stealing? What? The opposite of stealing? What the heck does that have to do with anything? Stealing is dishonest. As in not honest. But just because one thing is not another thing does not make them opposites. Why in the world would you think that? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/8 "2011-08-04T19:24:06Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Why wouldn’t it be honesty? Taking something that doesn’t belong to you is stealing. But one could turn this around. Is it your moral responsibility to correct someone else’s mistake when correcting that mistake costs you money. For the record I would return the money, and also if convenient I will correct cashiers if they make a mistake in my favor. But I wouldn’t necessarily say that those people who do otherwise are dishonest. Basically I see it like charity. It is more moral to do it but it is not immoral to decline. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/9 "2011-08-04T19:28:52Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But one could turn this around. Is it your moral responsibility to correct someone else’s mistake when correcting that mistake costs you money. > > For the record I would return the money, and also if convenient I will correct cashiers if they make a mistake in my favor. But I wouldn’t necessarily say that those people who do otherwise are dishonest. How is it costing you money? It was never yours in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Wood\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/10 "2011-08-04T19:33:13Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > What? The opposite of stealing? What the heck does that have to do with anything? > > Stealing is dishonest. As in not honest. But just because one thing is not another thing does not make them opposites. Why in the world would you think that? No. Stealing is wrong. Saying that you are beautiful when you are not, is dishonest. I just think that a different word should be used- perhaps integrity? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/11 "2011-08-04T19:50:51Z")
> [@Wood\_Man](#): > > No. Stealing is wrong. No offense, but you seem to a rather binary view of word meanings. Stealing can be both wrong \*and \*dishonest. And claiming something as your own when it is not is dishonest. It is a _false claim_. [Here’s one dictionary reference.](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/honesty) All three definitions apply. Stealing is neither upright nor fair. It is fraudulent and deceitful. As noted above, claiming stolen possessions as your own is untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Wood\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/12 "2011-08-04T20:01:05Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > No offense, but you seem to a rather binary view of word meanings. Stealing can be both wrong \*and \*dishonest. And claiming something as your own when it is not is dishonest. It is a _false claim_. > > [Here’s one dictionary reference.](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/honesty) All three definitions apply. Stealing is neither upright nor fair. It is fraudulent and deceitful. As noted above, claiming stolen possessions as your own is untrue. Thanks. I have read dictionaries before. I agree that stealing can be wrong and dishonest. What I am trying to say is that what is being tested in these so-called experiments is not ‘honesty’ but something else. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/13 "2011-08-04T20:03:43Z")
> [@Wood\_Man](#): > > Thanks. I have read dictionaries before. I agree that stealing can be wrong and dishonest. Stealing\* is\* dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Wood\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/14 "2011-08-04T20:09:58Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Stealing\* is\* dishonest. Does anyone else have anything to say? Contrapuntal can go back to writing his own dictionary. This - “Firstly I think they need are new word. Giving back money to someone who drops it - is this honesty or something else?” is just a sidebar to the main part of my post. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/15 "2011-08-04T20:13:59Z")
> [@Wood\_Man](#): > > What I am trying to say is that what is being tested in these so-called experiments is not ‘honesty’ but something else. Are you thinking of integrity? One definition of honesty matches the concept of integrity, but integrity doesn’t also mean truthful, just moral/ethical. I will point out that the wallet and dropped money experiments have 3 possible outcomes. Give the money back, keep the money, or walk away. Walking away is just as much “not stealing” as giving the money back, but does not show you to be a person of particular integrity. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/16 "2011-08-04T20:21:20Z")
> [@Wood\_Man](#): > > Does anyone else have anything to say? > > Contrapuntal can go back to writing his own dictionary. > This - “Firstly I think they need are new word. Giving back money to someone who drops it - is this honesty or something else?” is just a sidebar to the main part of my post. Jesus, I hope I’m not the only one who gets your point and finds **Contrapunal** ’s bickering over this to be tedious. We get that stealing is dishonest. So is, say, cheating, but if you’re going to do a test that measures people’s willingness to cheat, then call it that instead of an honesty test. They’re separate things; they have enormous overlap, yes, but we shouldn’t conflate the two. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/17 "2011-08-04T20:38:03Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Jesus, I hope I’m not the only one who gets your point and finds **Contrapunal** ’s bickering over this to be tedious. We get that stealing is dishonest. So is, say, cheating, but if you’re going to do a test that measures people’s willingness to cheat, then call it that instead of an honesty test. They’re separate things; they have enormous overlap, yes, but we shouldn’t conflate the two. Agreed. Plus, when the coffee cart guy is being obnoxious, I’d give him the money back just to embarrass him, if for no other reason. It’s honesty, but there’s also a hefty dose of schadenfreude mixed into that drink when you point out that he can’t run his business competently. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/18 "2011-08-04T20:53:12Z")
Point well taken. There are reasons to return the money other than “honesty.” But enough silliness over what they (perhaps poorly)titled the experiment/ad campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honesty-experiments/591493/19 "2011-08-05T18:11:38Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Jesus, I hope I’m not the only one who gets your point and finds **Contrapunal** ’s bickering over this to be tedious. We get that stealing is dishonest. So is, say, cheating, but if you’re going to do a test that measures people’s willingness to cheat, then call it that instead of an honesty test. They’re separate things; they have enormous overlap, yes, but we shouldn’t conflate the two. If you are devising a test that attempts to determine whether someone will steal, you are devising a test to determine whether they will commit a dishonest act. Therefore, you are testing their honesty. If you can show me where I am arguing (not bickering) alone I would be much obliged. Please try not to mischaracterize my posts.