# Honeybadger warning over global warming disinformation **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 29, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881 "2023-09-29T20:52:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/21 "2023-09-29T22:24:31Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, it’s exactly the psychological equivalent. There is power in numbers, and a natural human inclination to be part of the mob rather than to defend the victim. You see it all over the Pit, and it’s especially evident in certain long-running threads. Well I’ve been physically attacked by 3 guys, and I’ve been internet-attacked by dozens at the same time… they were pretty damn different. The former was one of the most intense and frightening experiences of my life, and the latter was no big deal at all, and it certainly didn’t feel like bullying. I was free to engage each attack at my leisure, and however I wanted, or bypass them altogether. But I’m fine with leaving it here. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/22 "2023-09-29T22:29:25Z")
Outside the specifics of the warning which I already addressed, I am apparently in the majority opinion that taunting HB over the issue when he cannot respond is certainly in poor taste and should be avoided. And I appreciated it in thread when @Riemann explicitly called it out. They were too modest to quote themselves, but at least @wolfpup did. In fact, the discussion was slowly moving towards how / why others evolved their POV on the issue off-board, as well as other complaints about the poster before HB popped back in to get the last word. Which is understandable of course, but … well, what have you. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/23 "2023-09-29T22:31:05Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But I think the overall principle of whether a topic ban should extend to everyone in a dedicated Pit thread when the Pittee has been topic banned should be addressed separately. As I said, I kind of agree. As a principal of fairness, I don’t think we should be baiting a poster by ridiculing them on topics they’re banned from discussing. It’s the need for a specific rule that I don’t agree with. What about clear jokes that aren’t directed at him, like this example? What if HB posts somewhere about how we need to open up everywhere for drilling, increase coal production, reduce gas milage requirements? He’s not violating his topic ban, but am I forbidden from commenting that of course he’d want to do that because he doesn’t believe in climate change? That creates a different kind of unbalanced dynamic. I thought your posts in the Pit thread were the right way to handle it. We can all shame each other to quit picking on someone who can’t defend themself, without making a rule. It allows for more nuance. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/24 "2023-09-29T23:11:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > We here are not dedicated to absolute free speech. An idea several other internet operators have pretty thoroughly demonstrated is unworkable and leads simply to runaway trollery and abject ignorance. Gresham’s Law applies to thinking just as it applies to money. > > There is a difference between being dedicated to a free for all, and being dedicated to sound thinking and soundly constructed honest rhetoric. I don’t know how better to explain it. Basically, what [iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii) said. I have no issue with a topic ban in isolation. The issue that I have is with people being allowed to bring up a topic, and then when another person responds, they get a formal warning. Several posters have remarked about how my comments about Venus were meant in jest. Indeed they were. But if you scroll up, I and others were talking more substantively about the evidence for climate change. No-one has to listen to my opinion on running this forum, of course. But I am free to say it’s a bad look IMO. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/25 "2023-09-30T01:59:53Z")
Granted completely that any pitter attacking the pittee HBDC _now_ over climate change posts he wrote _back then_ is a turdbird. That is not nice poster behavior and deserves community censure if not a mod note. There’s inherently going to be a short interval of a couple days while everybody catches up to the current state of play. As I said in my second post. We can move on to pitting about other things as and when those other things arise. And it would be appropriate IMO for a mod to fuss at anyone now who continues to beat HDBC’s immobile corpse about climate change. That’s _not_ appropriate now, although it certainly was totally appropriate just before the topic ban, and continued to be decreasingly so for a short interval just after the topic ban. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/26 "2023-09-30T02:18:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is just like a slow, painful ban. If we want to get rid of him, ban him. If we just don’t want him derailing climate change threads with bullshit, then keep the topic ban and mod the thread so posters aren’t attacking him in a way he’s not allowed to defend or explain himself. > > All IMO. As always, @iiandyiiii is wise beyond his years. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/27 "2023-09-30T02:25:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is just like a slow, painful ban. If we want to get rid of him, ban him. If we just don’t want him derailing climate change threads with bullshit, then keep the topic ban and mod the thread so posters aren’t attacking him in a way he’s not allowed to defend or explain himself. IIRC, there is precedent for this with **lissener** and Verhoeven; he got a topic ban and everyone else was told to quit prodding him. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/28 "2023-09-30T07:46:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not really fair that, in the Pit thread on Honeybadger, we can bring up global warming but he can’t defend or explain himself. It’s the Pit, it’s inherently not fair. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the topic ban should be removed for that Pit thread (and only that Pit thread). Alternately, institute the same topic ban for every poster for that Pit thread (and only that Pit thread). I vote “No” to both of those. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/29 "2023-09-30T08:06:30Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > If someone is banned completely, we close any dedicated Pit thread completely. We can still freely mention them in other Pit and even ATMB threads, though. It’s not like they or their past posts become _totally_ off-limits. Not that I agree with the closing of banned posters’ Pit threads, anyway, but that ship sailed long ago. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > An internet pile on isn’t like a physical one - one on one is the same as one on twenty I agree with the first sentence but not the second. When there’s a pile-on (in the Pit or GD or wherever) the single person has to struggle to respond to every post timeously, especially if they need to back things up with quotes or cites. Not responding timeously is a losing tack. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > No doubt HBDC will provide fresh non-climate material for on-going pitting. It’s worth noting that climate denial is only a fraction of what they’ve been pitted for. > [@Mijin](#): > > The issue that I have is with people being allowed to bring up a topic, and then when another person responds, they get a formal warning. They are free to _not_ respond. They are free to never post in their Pit thread again, in fact, as some do. Now, bringing up the banned topic in, say GD or FQ should be _verboten_. No argument from me there. But the Pit shouldn’t be constrained that way. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > That is not nice poster behavior and deserves community censure if not a mod note. “Meh” to the former, if that’s how people feel (but people bring up past posts in the Pit all the time) “Hell no!!!” to the latter. It’s not Miller’s job to enforce popular opinion. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > he got a topic ban and everyone else was told to quit prodding him. In the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/30 "2023-09-30T08:09:22Z")
Same here. I had extremely limited interaction with that poster, so limited it wasn’t even memorable. It really should have been memorable, though, given the odd take on science on display. Then my recent thread regarding the creation of the American Climate Corps, a rather important issue IMHO, was defecated on, highjacked, and run straight off the bridge into the chasm solely by the guest of honor here. That poster is presumably an adult and thus knows how to follow instructions. They made a couple of choices in rapid succession and found out that there are consequences for certain actions. If the topic ban doesn’t work, they have nobody else to blame. And it shouldn’t matter that they’re banned from a particular topic for others to discuss said topic. I’m not feeling all that much dismay here for them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/31 "2023-09-30T08:12:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Skywatcher](#): > > > > he got a topic ban and everyone else was told to quit prodding him. > > In the Pit? Answering my own question: apparently _not_ in the Pit: > [@Trolls R Us redux \[Now the argument clinic\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/2107): > > Fair–and Miller sez whatever the topic ban was it doesn’t apply in the Pit, so lissener is free to tell us all what moronic philistines we are. A difference, of course, is that lissener’s topic ban is for him alone, whereas climate change denial is off the menu for all posters, across the board. This had to be specifically called out for HBDC, but I’m sure the same would be done for any other denialist if they didn’t stay told. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/32 "2023-09-30T13:44:48Z")
Pit threads are usually one person the pittee, sparring with twenty attackers simultaneously many of whom are verbally assaultive towards the pittee. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/33 "2023-09-30T13:46:09Z")
Indeed! Not sure what you’re disputing, but I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/34 "2023-09-30T13:50:11Z")
IMO, in the majority of the cases, the pittee never responds in the pit thread. When pittees do respond, it’s often a precursor to them getting banned. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/35 "2023-09-30T14:09:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Granted completely that any pitter attacking the pittee HBDC _now_ over climate change posts he wrote _back then_ is a turdbird. That is not nice poster behavior and deserves community censure if not a mod note. That’s a pretty misleading way of putting it though (plus insult). I obviously wasn’t aware, and not trying to beat up on someone who couldn’t fight back, otherwise why would I have made this thread? And I don’t think others were aware either. We could say: “Well, now you know” But in the meantime, HB got a warning. > [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s the Pit, it’s inherently not fair. Sure, we’re free to have unfair rules on SD. But again, I think that’s a bad thing for the forum. I’ve often promoted the straight dope elsewhere as what a _real_ free speech marketplace of ideas should be: where the only prohibitions are against things that aren’t really stating an opinion or fact, like ad hominems, racial pejoratives, bringing sex into non-sexual discussions and so on. But … If we’re allowed to point out the evidence of climate change and anyone that disagrees gets banned. Or if we’re allowed to debunk anti-vax but anyone pushing antivax gets banned. …we’re going down a road where people will say we’re no better than truth social. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/36 "2023-09-30T14:16:41Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > If we’re allowed to point out the evidence of climate change and anyone that disagrees gets banned. Or if we’re allowed to debunk anti-vax but anyone pushing antivax gets banned. > …we’re going down a road where people will say we’re no better than truth social. No. Poor argument. It assumes both sides have credibility. But they don’t. You can use you exact same line of argument for allowing antisemites free reign here. Or open misogynists. Or anti-homosexual tirades. But you clearly think they’re different - how so? Some shit has already been proved wrong. We did the work already. Our posts, thousands of them, across every forum, for the entire existence of this board, are our cites > [@Mijin](#): > > I’ve often promoted the straight dope elsewhere as what a _real_ free speech marketplace of ideas should be Why would you do that, when we’re one of the _most_ heavily moderated forums I’ve ever been on. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/37 "2023-09-30T14:17:26Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > That’s a pretty misleading way of putting it though (plus insult). > I obviously wasn’t aware, and not trying to beat up on someone who couldn’t fight back, otherwise why would I have made this thread? And I don’t think others were aware either. Which is exactly why my next paragraph said (in both my posts) that there is a completely reasonable transition period after the topic ban occurred and before the rest of the members became aware of that ban. During which time reasonable posters will inadvertently beat that now-dead horse. You happened to slip in under that very wire and are feeling a bit remorseful that it happened. Hence this thread. Which feeling on your part is commendable. But stuff happens and as long as folks collectively don’t keep beating the dead horse for days and weeks, this too shall pass. You meant no harm and made no material foul IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/38 "2023-09-30T14:22:13Z")
@MrDibble I covered that in the post you’re responding to. Racial pejoratives, ad hominems etc aren’t debate and there’s no issue with moderating that. A thread on why homosexual marriage should be banned or whatever though, I think should be fair game (even though I vehemently disagree with the position of course), as long as the OP can put their point without descending into hate-filled diatribes. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Why would you do that, when we’re one of the _most_ heavily moderated forums I’ve ever been on. Because what I said: that the moderation isn’t about suppressing opinions it’s about encouraging civilized debate. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/39 "2023-09-30T14:28:39Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Racial pejoratives, ad hominems etc aren’t debate Neither is climate change denial nor anti-vax propaganda. And I said nothing about pejoratives. Antisemitism, like other racism, has usually not been phrased pejoratively here. > [@Mijin](#): > > A thread on why homosexual marriage should be banned or whatever though, I think should be fair game[…]as long as the OP can put their point without descending into hate-filled diatribes. That’s the same kind of argument that used to be advanced for debating scientific racism. Which kind of overlooks that the very argument itself, and others like it, _is_ hate-filled, regardless of how politely it’s worded. > [@Mijin](#): > > that the moderation isn’t about suppressing opinions I can think of various now-departed racists, misogynists and transphobes who’d probably differ on that. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881/40 "2023-09-30T16:02:50Z")
I still think you guys are giving HBDC too much credit. I want to note that this is @Mijin’s thread, and perhaps due to some (misguided? admirable?) sense of personal guilt. HBDC could have created an ATMB thread about the topic ban. No such issued. Instead, they participated in a thread and touched on the same arguments again, without apparent care, despite how recent the ban was. And in the thread, and I’m repeating myself here from upthread, got a semi-friendly “hey this is touching on your topic ban which isn’t allowed even in the Pit” from a mod (no mod color), a FORMAL note from a mod (in mod color, saying a warning would be next), and then the Warning. That’s… pretty egregious for this place. I would be more understanding of the unfairness guilt and argument in this thread if this had resulted in a ban (which doesn’t seem to be on the table right now), or if the poster hadn’t had TWO mulligans immediately prior to the warning. Honest question, would any of those suggesting the warning was undeserved or unfair at least, have objected if the warning had been for failure to obey mod instructions instead? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadger-warning-over-global-warming-disinformation/990881.md?page=3)