# Hong Kong, 2047, and the current protests. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 16, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620 "2019-06-16T22:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/81 "2019-08-06T02:03:32Z")
I read a very interesting article in the South China Morning Post today by an economist who’s spent considerable time in HK. Graeme Maxton, an economist, suggests that this is really a debate about HK’s economic future and that many of the problems in HK specifically are traceable to British rule, and that this isn’t just a fear of Chinese authority (although he doesn’t necessarily seem to be arguing against that idea, either). > **[Opinion | Police can’t end Hong Kong protest chaos, economic reforms can](https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3021423/how-hong-kong-can-put-end-protest-chaos-its-about-economy-so-fix)** > > Hong Kong is a free market on steroids that serves the rich. As discontent over an unjust system boils over, it’s time to introduce easy policy fixes, starting with targeting oligopolies and better welfare. > [@](#): > > It was always going to end this way because an unrestricted market economy always creates a huge gulf between rich and poor, low wages for the majority, extreme wealth from speculative investments and vast economic sectors dominated by a handful of enormously powerful companies. If his analysis is correct, then this explains why Beijing has a lot to be worried about. It’s a weakening middle class giving the finger to its unresponsive government, and its a government with increasingly few ideas on how to respond. It’s worth mentioning that there is a labor movement in China that is increasingly showing a willingness to fight back against what it considers to be abuses by the elite. On that note, I hadn’t heard of Graeme Maxton, and I’m sorry I haven’t because he seems like a really avant garde thinker. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/82 "2019-08-06T02:16:54Z")
He makes good points, kinda, but his focus is very narrow and he writes stuff like this: > [@](#): > > The good news is that this deeply divisive economic system can be fixed, and relatively easily in policy terms. All it needs is for the rich to be taxed properly, the powerful oligopolies to be broken up and for Hong Kong’s wealth to be much more fairly distributed. If it was done easily, these folks wouldn’t need to be out in the streets, risking their lives every day for the past month or so. And fixing the economic problems alone isn’t enough, IMO. There has to be a government system that will respond to the population, and the current one and the one in China aren’t that, except to react adversely, apparently. He’s on target with this, tho: > [@](#): > > Hong Kong’s response to this crisis matters, and not just to its citizens – it matters in many other parts of the world, too. It matters in the UK (ironically), as well as in Singapore, Brazil and South Africa. In all those places, and many more, anger is rising because the free-market economic system has been allowed to get out of control. > > Without change, Hong Kong is a taste of what will come in all these places. It now has the chance to show the world that there is a better way. Except he doesn’t mention the United States. My advice to my fellow Americans is to watch what’s going on in Hong Kong now and learn the techniques that the revolutionaries are using; I’m afraid that we’re gonna need them here in the US before too long. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/83 "2019-08-06T05:50:05Z")
[This is NOT going to please either Beijing or the current Hong Kong authorities](https://apnews.com/756a508bf3ec4cc582d5ebc84bf5bfc6): > [@](#): > > Hong Kong protesters have condemned what they call the government’s “empty rhetoric” and instances of alleged police abuse in an inaugural “People’s Press Conference.” > > Three protesters who spoke to reporters Tuesday said the briefing was intended to counter the regular government and police news conferences in which authorities have repeatedly decried violent acts by some pro-democracy demonstrators. > > An activist using the pseudonym Jerry Chan said some officers have shown “total lack of self-discipline,” adding that some tear gas was fired on residential buildings during clashes across several districts Monday. > > The protesters apologized for the inconveniences brought on by a general strike Monday that paralyzed regular workday operations in the city. The Freedom Fighters are asserting control of the narrative; good for them. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/84 "2019-08-06T10:08:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > He makes good points, kinda, but his focus is very narrow and he writes stuff like this:If it was done easily, these folks wouldn’t need to be out in the streets, risking their lives every day for the past month or so. His point is that the solutions themselves are obvious, not necessarily that the people upholding the current policies are going to give that power away easily. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And fixing the economic problems alone isn’t enough, IMO. There has to be a government system that will respond to the population, and the current one and the one in China aren’t that, except to react adversely, apparently. The fight in Hong Kong isn’t entirely dissimilar to that of protesters in Moscow or Istanbul; they’re fighting corruption and incompetence. It’s been an assumption that there’s no hope; modern capitalists argue that wealth can only grow if the economy grows at 4-7%, thereby creating such great demand for labor and consumption that the market inevitably has to raise wages. People are growing tired of waiting; they want economic justice and equality. That’s true in the streets of Kowloon, and it’s true in the streets of Long Beach. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > He’s on target with this, tho:Except he doesn’t mention the United States. My advice to my fellow Americans is to watch what’s going on in Hong Kong now and learn the techniques that the revolutionaries are using; I’m afraid that we’re gonna need them here in the US before too long. Couldn’t agree more, and I’m in agreement that there’s going to be a moment when things come to a head. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/85 "2019-08-13T12:15:05Z")
I don’t know how reliable CNBC is in reporting HK/China but if this article is true, it looks like things are about to get potentially very, very messy. > **[China media says Hong Kong protesters are 'asking for self-destruction' as...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/13/hong-kong-protests-china-media-says-military-assembles-nearby.html)** > > Chinese propaganda outlets warned on Tuesday that protesters in Hong Kong are "asking for self-destruction," as they released a video showing military vehicles amassing near the border of the city. Regardless, I don’t think China feels it’s in a position to let this protest burn itself out. They’re getting fed up, and I have no doubt they’re worried that HK will encourage uprisings on the Mainland. China may be blocking out most of the protests, but there are people on the Mainland, especially in Guangdong Province, who must know what’s happening and China’s worried that word will spread. The last thing China wants now with their economy tumbling down is an inspired labor and anti-corruption movement. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/86 "2019-08-13T12:46:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t know how reliable CNBC is in reporting HK/China but if this article is true, it looks like things are about to get potentially very, very messy. > > [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/13/hong-kong-protests-china-media-says-military-assembles-nearby.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/13/hong-kong-protests-china-media-says-military-assembles-nearby.html) > > Regardless, I don’t think China feels it’s in a position to let this protest burn itself out. They’re getting fed up, and I have no doubt they’re worried that HK will encourage uprisings on the Mainland. China may be blocking out most of the protests, but there are people on the Mainland, especially in Guangdong Province, who must know what’s happening and China’s worried that word will spread. The last thing China wants now with their economy tumbling down is an inspired labor and anti-corruption movement. It’s really complicated. You are thinking of the Chinese as a monolith, but even in the CCP there are different factions. Basically, part of the issue is that Xi’s faction doesn’t want a confrontation with the protesters in Hong Kong at this time. He’s already in a really bad position with the economy stalled and tanking, talks with the US going no where and companies leaving China for other manufacturing areas. Basically, since he’s the new Mao, all of this is on his head, and there is blood in the water. At the same time, there are several other factions that WANT him to fail. In addition and more relevent to China, there are factions that want to put down the protests in the harshest manner possible. In fact, the faction that gave us the Tiananmen Square massacre is still there and they are one of the ones who would love to send in the tanks. It would kill several birds with one stone for them, including making Xi look bad and further weakening him. For the most part the mainland Chinese don’t really sympathize much with Hong Kong. But…they do see that the Hong Kong people are protesting and haven’t been stepped on or squashed, and that could be a very bad thing at this time, when things are not going very well in China. It’s a real mess, and I think one wrong move or one faction trying to knife the other could bring a lot of death to a lot of kids in Hong Kong. I’ve been following this protest in Hong Kong through several of my channels, including China Uncensored who actually were there for about 2 weeks and had some interesting insights. I’m actually to the point where I dread checking up on it, thinking that maybe today the PLA has been ordered in to put down the ‘riots’. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/87 "2019-08-13T13:07:03Z")
Your point about the various factions and vested interests in China is illuminating. Sounds like a recipe for abrupt destabilization which, I guess, is often how things change in this world. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/88 "2019-08-13T13:18:15Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Your point about the various factions and vested interests in China is illuminating. Sounds like a recipe for abrupt destabilization which, I guess, is often how things change in this world. Definitely. And there is, of course, another wrinkle. Many of the CCP elite or folks who are part of the Chinese elite with patrons in one faction or another (read: Rich Chinese business people, because every rich Chinese business person you read about or hear about is in this camp) have property and vested interests in Hong Kong. I think Xi is hoping this will all just blow over. But pressure is mounting, and he really can’t do anything without making a huge mess one way or another, and also weakening his own position and that of his faction. Think about what the blowback on China would be if they rolled the PLA in there for Tiananmen part 2. :eek: Yet, that might happen, and it might not even be Xi who orders it or who is pushing for it. Might happen anyway. On the other hand, if left unchecked, it could spread to the mainland. Like I said, the sympathy level for Hong Kong by most mainlanders is pretty low. But the mainland has a lot of it’s own issues, especially with the economic slowdown and economy tanking, and now this trade war with the US seems like it’s not going to be resolved (to paraphrase Vin Diesel, should have taken the money, Xi). I think China’s hope is to kick the can down the road, hope the Hong Kong protests stay contained and fade into the background, hope Trump et al are not re-elected, and hope that whoever is elected is willing to work with the Chinese (read: give China everything it wants without asking for concessions). I think that even if Trump isn’t elected, I seriously doubt at this stage that any potential candidate, nor the house or senate is going to do that, but I’m sure that’s what they are hoping for. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/89 "2019-08-13T17:05:33Z")
> [@XT](#): > > For the most part the mainland Chinese don’t really sympathize much with Hong Kong. But…they do see that the Hong Kong people are protesting and haven’t been stepped on or squashed, and that could be a very bad thing at this time, when things are not going very well in China. Just to be clear, I agree that the mainlanders don’t have much regard for people in HK and the feeling is mutual. But there are simmering tensions that could explode into the open under the right/wrong circumstances, and these protests might inspire them to speak out against authorities. Look at the language that the government is using: terrorism. They’re laying down the groundwork, making the case for a crackdown of some kind. Maybe not a Tienanmen type crackdown, but something. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/90 "2019-08-14T05:28:21Z")
Having lived in both HK and China for years, I don’t see HK as a spark to drive protest and democracy in China. Note: I am painting with a very broad brush BUT Hongkongese treated visiting mainlanders like crap up until about a decade ago. When China first opened up in the 80’s and 90’s, an awful lot of Hong Kongese businessmen in China overlorded the locals by throwing around money and exploiting the local women. (I am a gweiloh but my mainland wife certainly experience more than her share when we lived in HK for many years in the 1990’s) Be that as it may, the mystifying thing is that the HK government could reasonably easily shut down access to the airport to anyone without a valid ticket. The HK airport is out on a remote island with a small population. Here is a [transportation map](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=FF59A4BE838471868E4CCF8376C50CD166486127&thid=OIP.Nop-qJtxj4eOAsiK1yM1qwHaDl&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chinatouradvisors.com%2FUpLoad%2FMaps%2FHongKong-Map%2FHongKong-Transportation-Map%2FHongKong-Transportation-Map_M.jpg&exph=310&expw=640&q=lantau+island+hk+transportation+map&selectedindex=0&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,2,6). There is a subway line, an airport express subway, and only one road. Checkpoints and tickets would be a headache and inconvenience, but logistically not all that daunting to screen at least most of the people coming in and out. How legal that is in HK, I’m not quite sure. But my point being logistically not that daunting. Which leads to the follow on “why not lock down the airport?” Multiple scenarios: 1. Local HK government never planned for such a scenario / incompetence 2. There have not been riots in HK since the 1960’s, so rusty on the crowd control 3. A faction of the mainland Chinese overlords haven’t upgraded their war games plan since 1997 passed with little more than a whimper 4. A faction or same faction of the mainland Chinese overlords are letting this burn out. Demonstrations went from about 1/8th of the HK population, and turning into a smaller but more activist group. I have no read on how well the general population views this. I will say HK is extremely densely populated, and no one wants tear gas seeping into their highrise, or in their subway station. 5. A faction of the Mainland Chinese overlords are formenting an excuse to show muscle (and I personnally believe this is a small group but their are extremist nutjobs in all societies that don’t care what the cost as long as it achieves the goal) 6. A less ominous crackdown but a crackdown nonetheless (ninja’d by asahi) 7. a combination of the above ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/91 "2019-08-14T09:46:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I remain surprised that this thread hasn’t seen more interest and activity; this is big stuff IMO and it continues to escalate daily: [Police fire tear gas, rubber bullets at Hong Kong protesters](https://apnews.com/2bbb3f1cbb5648b4aed0b85db4144ea1) We’re interested, just don’t have anything to contribute. But, as usual, thanks to everyone for your posts. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/92 "2019-08-15T05:07:54Z")
My colleague reported the HK airport was very quiet today with a lot of police and all the shops open. My customer reported they had a colleague 2 days ago who’s flight got cancelled, managed to get out of the airport, then had the train stopped by protesters somewhere out in the New Territories, then eventually got a taxi to take to the border with Shenzhen, crossed over on foot thru customs and immigration, then finally was able to get to the Shenzhen airport on the China side to find an alternate routing to get back to the US. Planes trains and automobiles honky version ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/93 "2019-08-16T06:43:32Z")
This weekend could get quite scary. A number of demonstrations, like student/teacher rallies, are planned for tomorrow and Saturday, and then a big march this Sunday. My skeptical side is niggling at me that this will not end well. > **[With buildup of forces on border, China displays waning tolerance for Hong...](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/with-buildup-of-forces-on-border-china-displays-waning-tolerance-for-hong-kong-protests)** > > Chinese military exercises Thursday near the border with Hong Kong reiterated the country’s waning patience with months of pro-democracy demonstrations, some turning violent. Beijing officials have referred to the protests as “terrorism,” and even... ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/94 "2019-08-16T11:59:54Z")
I think China probably doesn’t want bloodshed. They won’t necessarily go into Hong Kong with a shoot everyone in sight mentality. My guess is, the PLA will enter HK and give the protests time to die down. But if they don’t…they’ll do whatever they deem necessary. If anyone thinks that because it’s HK and not the mainland, the PLA won’t actually kill anyone, think again – they’d do it to send a clear message to anyone in China who might be following events. That message is, “Protest, and this is what happens.” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/95 "2019-08-19T18:08:43Z")
Apparently, [Facebook and Twitter have been allowing Xinhua (China’s state-run news agency) to buy ads with which to smear Hong Kong protesters](https://gizmodo.com/chinas-biggest-propaganda-agency-buys-ads-on-facebook-a-1837361928?fbclid=IwAR1oYNiY3WbUV2tirv5aj7j5AibpEGQQnXisafZo62z2gCEySm5Xz6lAB2o). Seriously, Zuckerberg and Co., develop a spine! ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/96 "2019-08-19T23:50:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Apparently, [Facebook and Twitter have been allowing Xinhua (China’s state-run news agency) to buy ads with which to smear Hong Kong protesters](https://gizmodo.com/chinas-biggest-propaganda-agency-buys-ads-on-facebook-a-1837361928?fbclid=IwAR1oYNiY3WbUV2tirv5aj7j5AibpEGQQnXisafZo62z2gCEySm5Xz6lAB2o). Seriously, Zuckerberg and Co., develop a spine! As terrific and meaningful as it would be for FB to do so, it’s hard for a publicly traded corporation to take on China, at least if it operates traditionally (e.g. tries to maximize shareholder profits). On the other hand, there has been [a very recent ‘manifesto’](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/19/lobbying-group-powerful-ceos-is-rethinking-how-it-defines-corporations-purpose/) issued by some credible people that the time has come to ‘balanc(e) the needs of shareholders with customers, employees, suppliers and local communities’. Shame they added the qualifier ‘local’ to communities. A global perspective would have been a natural. Even with that omission, it would be a welcome change. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/97 "2019-08-20T03:00:03Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think China probably doesn’t want bloodshed. They won’t necessarily go into Hong Kong with a shoot everyone in sight mentality. My guess is, the PLA will enter HK and give the protests time to die down. But if they don’t…they’ll do whatever they deem necessary. If anyone thinks that because it’s HK and not the mainland, the PLA won’t actually kill anyone, think again – they’d do it to send a clear message to anyone in China who might be following events. That message is, “Protest, and this is what happens.” If it happens it won’t be the PLA but rather the PAP. The Chinese People’s Armed Police Force (abbreviated: PAP) is a Chinese paramilitary police (Gendarmerie) force primarily responsible for internal security, riot control, antiterrorism, law enforcement, and maritime rights protection in China, as well as providing support to the PLA Ground Force during wartime. I read the press conference write up with the HK Police. Basically, the HK police said they have no protocols, communication or anything in place if the PAP or PLA were to come into HK. Hopefully, the authorities have learned a thing or three since Tiananmen about crowd control. My father was a MP in post WW2 Philippines, where there were massive crowds and riots. He said all it took was a couple of squads to go in with rifle butts on the upstroke and downstroke to go thru the crowd and divide them into more manageable segments until a critical mass is reached and the crowds evaporate. I hate to say this be he was \*professionally \*insulted that the Chinese went in as they did. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/98 "2019-08-20T03:03:32Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > As terrific and meaningful as it would be for FB to do so, it’s hard for a publicly traded corporation to take on China, at least if it operates traditionally (e.g. tries to maximize shareholder profits). Sergey Brin pulled google out of China in 2010. "a[t the time,](https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/08/17/sundar-pichai-sergey-brin-defend-googles-investments-china/) he compared the government’s attempts to enforce censorship and hack Gmail as having “the earmarks of totalitarianism” of the Soviet Union. In this week’s meeting, he said management about Chinese projects requires “a certain set of trade-offs.” ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/99 "2019-08-20T14:56:33Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > As terrific and meaningful as it would be for FB to do so, it’s hard for a publicly traded corporation to take on China, at least if it operates traditionally (e.g. tries to maximize shareholder profits). On the other hand, there has been [a very recent ‘manifesto’](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/19/lobbying-group-powerful-ceos-is-rethinking-how-it-defines-corporations-purpose/) issued by some credible people that the time has come to ‘balanc(e) the needs of shareholders with customers, employees, suppliers and local communities’. Shame they added the qualifier ‘local’ to communities. A global perspective would have been a natural. Even with that omission, it would be a welcome change. It looked like Facebook and Twitter have [blocked the fake accounts China was using to undermine the HK protesters.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-twitter/twitter-facebook-accuse-china-of-using-fake-accounts-to-undermine-hong-kong-protests-idUSKCN1V91NX) China, naturally, is shocked. Shocked, I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hong-kong-2047-and-the-current-protests/835620/100 "2019-08-30T03:41:08Z")
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