# Honolulu to Nairobi (and back) in 1961 **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008 "2011-04-28T09:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/41 "2011-04-28T16:48:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It would in fact have been extremely unusual for any woman, let alone an 18-year-old, to travel so far at such a late stage in her pregnacy, especially to someplace in the third world. I absolutely totally disagree. It is not unusual, nor ludicrous, for a, any, 8 month pregnant woman to fly in a commercial airliner, even today. Ditto for an 18 year old married women to be flying on a commercial airliner. You also do not seem to know that not all 8 month pregnant women are totally incapacitated and unable to do a normal thing like sit in a jet airliner seat. My gosh!!! Do you think that the wagon trains accross America to California back in the 1850’s all come to a sudden halt whenever any of the women travelers entered late stage pregnancy? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/42 "2011-04-28T16:53:16Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > The fact is, that Stanley Ann Dunham DID!!! fly, and she flew often, back and forth to Hawaii, to Washington, to Indonesia, etc. > > Anyone who says Stanley Ann Dunham could not have flown in the 1960’s, doesnt know what they are talking about. Just curious, why the hell would she be flying regularly to Washington (also are you talking about Washington D.C. or Washington state)? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/43 "2011-04-28T16:53:59Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > One of the comments also points out > Quote: > Misha, another fact that gravitates against this already incredible story is that\*\* air serve between London and Nairobi was “fortnightly” – every 14 days. \*\*This means that unless Ann and Barack Sr. had to plan the timing of their trip just right to arrive in London before the BOAC flight left, else they would have spent precious dollars on a hotel room while awaiting the next flight out. Even Ilsa and Victor had more travel options … . I dont remember that at all, nor do I believe it. Maybe sometime in the 1920’s and 1930’s there were flights only every 2 weeks, but by the 1960’s there were daily flights. I definitely remember African Safari hunt travel trips to Tanganyika, that left no less often than every week. I would most certainly wager that there were daily flights in the 1960’s. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/44 "2011-04-28T16:56:49Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Just curious, why the hell would she be flying regularly to Washington (also are you talking about Washington D.C. or Washington state)? _"…Stanley Ann Dunham … spent her childhood in California, Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas and her teenage years in Mercer Island, Washington, and much of her adult life in Hawaii and Indonesia…Friends in_\* Washington State\*\* recall her visiting with her month-old baby in 1961. She took classes at the University of Washington from September 1961 to June 1962, and lived as a single mother in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle "\* > **[Ann Dunham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham)** > > Stanley Ann Dunham (November 29, 1942 – November 7, 1995) was an American anthropologist who specialized in the economic anthropology and rural development of Indonesia. Born in Wichita, Kansas, she studied at the East–West Center and at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa in Honolulu, where she earned a Bachelor of Arts (1967), a Master of Arts (1974), and a PhD (1992) in anthropology. > Drawing on her interest in craftsmanship, weaving, and the role of women in cottage industries, Dunham cond... ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/45 "2011-04-28T17:01:44Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > The fact is, that Stanley Ann Dunham DID!!! fly, and she flew often, back and forth to Hawaii, to Washington, to Indonesia, etc. It’s known that she traveled from Hawaii to Washington state in the fall of 1961 and then went back to Hawaii, and she moved to Indonesia in 1967. That’s not flying “often” by most definitions; it’s two round trips in six years. Are you aware of other trips? When her son moved back to Hawaii in the early 1970s, I don’t think she traveled back to Hawaii very often to see him, and that was a decade later. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/46 "2011-04-28T17:03:16Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > I absolutely totally disagree. > > It is not unusual, nor ludicrous, for a, any, 8 month pregnant woman to fly in a commercial airliner, even today. Ditto for an 18 year old married women to be flying on a commercial airliner. > > You also do not seem to know that not all 8 month pregnant women are totally incapacitated and unable to do a normal thing like sit in a jet airliner seat. > > My gosh!!! Do you think that the wagon trains accross America to California back in the 1850’s all come to a sudden halt whenever any of the women travelers entered late stage pregnancy? You know she didn’t fly to Kenya, right? There are records when you fly out of the country. Did you also know that Obama was born in Hawaii? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/47 "2011-04-28T17:09:20Z")
I’m still waiting for an answer about the Stanley thing, too. It was her legal name but not the one she used most of the time. The wikipedia quote seems to be edited to make it appear otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/48 "2011-04-28T17:12:39Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Obviously, your father was not Stanley Ann Dunham. Since he’s alive, and Ann Dunham died about 15 years ago, I’m pretty sure he’s not. However, by the end of 1961 he had travelled from Australia to England twice in his lifetime, and had still not travelled by plane. You are simply not understanding how rare air travel was then. When Ann Obama travelled from Hawaii to Washington State in 1961, I would think it likely that she travelled by ship and by train: it would have been cheaper and more comfortable for her and her new baby. Do you have any evidence that she did it by air? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/49 "2011-04-28T17:14:13Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > The fact is, that Stanley Ann Dunham DID!!! fly, and she flew often, back and forth to Hawaii, to Washington, to Indonesia, etc. > > Anyone who says Stanley Ann Dunham could not have flown in the 1960’s, doesnt know what they are talking about. Disregarding the fact that there’s an enormous difference in cost and complexity between flying from Hawaii to Seattle and flying from Hawaii to Kenya, do you have a cite that Stanley flew back and forth to Hawaii as opposed to taking a boat? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/50 "2011-04-28T17:25:56Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > I absolutely totally disagree. > > It is not unusual, nor ludicrous, for a, any, 8 month pregnant woman to fly in a commercial airliner, even today. Ditto for an 18 year old married women to be flying on a commercial airliner. This is irrelevant to the situation in the 1960s. > [@](#): > > You also do not seem to know that not all 8 month pregnant women are totally incapacitated and unable to do a normal thing like sit in a jet airliner seat. > > My gosh!!! Do you think that the wagon trains accross America to California back in the 1850’s all come to a sudden halt whenever any of the women travelers entered late stage pregnancy? Again, this is irrelevant to the discussion. [Moderator Instructions] For a second time, I am instructing you to not distort the arguments of other posters. If you continue to so, you may receive a warning. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/51 "2011-04-28T17:34:05Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > 1. You are simply not understanding how rare air travel was then. > > 2. When Ann Obama travelled from Hawaii to Washington State in 1961, I would think it likely that she travelled by ship and by train: it would have been cheaper and more comfortable for her and her new baby. Do you have any evidence that she did it by air? 1. …and you sir, simply do not understand how rare it was for any Kansas born American to move to Indonesia in the 1960’s. 2. The OP question is not whether Stanley Ann Dunham did or did not go to Kenya in 1961, but rather, how do the older folks on Straight Dope remember long distance travel back in the 1960’s, and how arduous was travel in the 1960’s. And my answer is that I remember travel being not arduous at all, rather, it was fun, enjoyable, roomy, unfilled seats, good food, and comfortable traveling back then, totally unlike today. Also, in the 1960’s Pan Am Airlines, my favorite, had luxurious jet airliners that traveled at the same speeds as jet airliners do today. Of course, if Stanley Ann Dunham traveled by ship or train, it would have been even more!!! comfortable and luxurious than the Pan Am jet, albeit much slower. My point is, that traveling in the 1960’s, in my opinion, was not arduous at all, but rather was BETTER than traveling today, much better. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/52 "2011-04-28T17:38:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This is irrelevant to the situation in the 1960s. > Again, this is irrelevant to the discussion. > [Moderator Instructions] > For a second time, I am instructing you to not distort the arguments of other posters. If you continue to so, you may receive a warning. > Colibri > General Questions Moderator I give up. I am done. I made my point. I remember traveling in the 1960’s, how enjoyable (not arduous) it was, and I am not going to change my memories. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/53 "2011-04-28T17:40:34Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > And my answer is that I remember travel being not arduous at all How many of those trips were 10,000 miles and made while you were eight months pregnant? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/54 "2011-04-28T17:42:04Z")
I was under the impression that most airlines would not accept a very late term pregnant woman for travel, especially for long flights. This is a risk they don’t want to have to deal with - of having to make an unscheduled stop or worse, being over an ocean and having no option. Not everyone is thrilled at the idea that a row of seats a few feet over is turned into a delivery room - assuming there’s even a doctor or nurse on the plane. Doctors have been sued for being good samaritans, so an airline I’m sure would also be wary of lawsuits over what happens on their plane. Not sure if this is a relatively recent phenomenon due to nanny-state-lawsuit type concerns, or whether it’s a fairly long standing tradition. Obvously it didn’t stop Sarah Palin from flying from Texas to Anchorage after her water broke, (with a stopover in Seattle) but I suspect she didn’t tell the airline she was in labour. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/55 "2011-04-28T17:45:52Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > My point is, that traveling in the 1960’s, in my opinion, was not arduous at all, but rather was BETTER than traveling today, much better. You’re right, it wasn’t arduous. However, (1) it cost more than now, relative to what people earned, and air travel cost a lot more. (2) it took longer, especially if (like most people) you travelled by train or by ship. And I remember my second long trip, at the age of 9, from England to Australia. (I don’t remember my first one, because I was only two.) It was fun, even though it took about four weeks, with lots of things to do on the ship, and visits to interesting foreign cities like Port Said, Suez, Aden, Bombay and Colombo. But it seems unlikely to me, apart from the complete lack of evidence, that Ann Obama travelled to Kenya and back just to give birth to young Barack. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/56 "2011-04-28T17:46:39Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > I remember traveling in the 1960’s, how enjoyable (not arduous) it was, and I am not going to change my memories. And I remember that a relatively major route like Vancouver to Mexico City was still DC6 prop planes in 1961. Once you got into the third world, South America was awful; DC3’s and plastic hose in the mouth instead of a mask for over-mountain flight. Depends on your budget and how far you got from civilization, I guess. Kenya… hmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/57 "2011-04-28T17:53:02Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s one faceless Internet person’s word over another. But **Susanann** used caps to write “NO”, which strengthens her argument. Thank you for this. You made my day! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/58 "2011-04-28T18:21:07Z")
> **[Encyclopedia of African Airlines](https://books.google.ca/books?id=KBmGpaD36cMC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=air%2Btravel%2Bafrica%2B1960&source=bl&ots=nCbJLp3Y8w&sig=kyM-f42A4-pafQVaZtjkqqQZXQw&hl=en&ei=M6y5TfPHDeLu0gHc2vzgDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=air%20travel%20africa%201960&f=false)** > > The rainy season, terrain, and financial hardships have made the construction of highways and railroads nearly impossible in many parts of Africa. This lack of modern infrastructure has been overcome in some part by the development of air... Encyclopedia of African Airlines - EAA bought 2 Comets and began twice-weekly flights to London from Nairobi in 1960, to compete with BOAC. Flights from NYC to London were stopping in Gander to refuel. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/59 "2011-04-28T18:34:35Z")
Originally Posted by Susanann I remember traveling in the 1960’s, how enjoyable (not arduous) it was, and I am not going to change my memories. > [@md2000](#): > > And I remember that a relatively major route like Vancouver to Mexico City was still DC6 prop planes in 1961. Once you got into the third world, South America was awful; DC3’s and plastic hose in the mouth instead of a mask for over-mountain flight. > > Depends on your budget and how far you got from civilization, I guess. Kenya… hmmmm… > [@md2000](#): > > Encyclopedia of African Airlines - EAA bought 2 Comets and began twice-weekly flights to London from Nairobi in 1960, to compete with BOAC.Flights from NYC to London were stopping in Gander to refuel. I was going to quit, but one more comment, bc I just remembered my first summer in Paris in 1962. I flew America to Paris via Air France, brand new Boeing 707, in June of 1962 for the summer. Is that close enough to September 1961 for comparison? Arduous? Ha Ha Ha!!! It was fast, comfy, roomy, luxurious, delicious food with silverware and china cups, the stewardesses were at my beck and call offerring me free playing cards, free cigarettes, free drinks, magazines, . I would definitely recommend that relaxing flight to any lady, pregnant or not. No searching, no metal detectors, no one (from TSA) groped me, no lines, plane was about half full like most flights in the 1960’s, etc. You guys have no idea how beautiful flying used to be in the 1960’s …mmmmmmmmmmmmmm and no, we did not stop to refuel in Gander to refuel, we filled up our tanks in NYC before we left, so we had plenty of gas from NYC to Paris non-stop! The Boeing 707 quite easily went from NYC to Paris on a tank of gas. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008/60 "2011-04-28T18:58:08Z")
Susanann, do you believe that Stanley Ann Dunham traveled to Kenya in her last month of pregnancy and gave birth to Barack there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honolulu-to-nairobi-and-back-in-1961/580008.md?page=4)