# Honorable Republicans - are you out there? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691 "2005-07-22T19:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/121 "2005-07-25T06:44:29Z")
> [@choie](#): > > … Christ, even Barry freakin’ Goldwater is looking pretty good these days! Ah, nostalgia! When LBJ was the “peace” candidate… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/122 "2005-07-25T06:52:15Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Spin, spin, spin, talking point, talking point, talking point. > > If the above is _your_ best work, then you should definitely keep your yap shut for the sake of your party – you do them an _enormous_ disservice. On second thought, you’re exactly the kind of non-thinking party drone they lap right up. You ought to be ashamed, but instead you’re actually proud. Stunning. Shayna, your hard work and persistence is admirable, but this is hardly the first time we’ve seen this kind of thing! I’m stunned you are still stunnable! Remember the link back during the eleciton to that long blog entry that was supposed to be such a brilliant assessment of the flaws of Kerry and the Dems? Buckeye could have written it! It’s just more “lalalalalaIcanthearyou!” I listen to ALan Colmes on the XM version of Air America, who has more callers than most Air America shows do, and I hear this kind of thing over and over and over again. it’s deeply depressing, but no longer even a little bit surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/123 "2005-07-25T07:00:09Z")
> [@xbuckeye](#): > > What exactly was proved by Iran Contra? You can’t say on one hand that Plame deserved to be protected and then use the other to applaud Kerry for outing another covert operation. \*\* What in God’s name is this supposed to mean? Do you have ANY idea whatsoever what the whole Plame thing is \* about? \* Any at all? Please, please, please explain this. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/124 "2005-07-25T08:28:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ah, nostalgia! When LBJ was the “peace” candidate… 😃 It was also a time when the Democrats were politically competent, and managed to smear their opponents with lies. Goldwater was in favor of immediate withdrawal from Vietnam. He championed civil liberties and free enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/125 "2005-07-25T08:37:01Z")
Reminds me of an old statement: “Hitler was a political genius. This goes a long way towards showing the fundamental nature of politics.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/126 "2005-07-25T16:56:23Z")
> [@](#): > > What exactly was proved by Iran Contra? You can’t say on one hand that Plame deserved to be protected and then use the other to applaud Kerry for outing another covert operation. In your defense, you wrote that you’re too young to remember Iran Contra. So you may not know that Congress passed a law prohibiting the United States from funding the Contras and a different law prohibiting arms sales to Iran. A group of White House staffers then broke both of these laws by sending money to the Contras that they had earned by selling weapons to Iran. And several of them, including Oliver North, skimmed a little of the top for their own personal profit. Iran Contra wasn’t a covert operation being run by some intelligence organization; it was a crime being committed by government employees. So the connection between Iran Contra and the Plame situation is that in both cases you have some White House staffers who broke the law. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/127 "2005-07-25T17:16:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Shayna, your hard work and persistence is admirable, but this is hardly the first time we’ve seen this kind of thing! I’m stunned you are still stunnable! > > Remember the link back during the eleciton to that long blog entry that was supposed to be such a brilliant assessment of the flaws of Kerry and the Dems? Buckeye could have written it! > > It’s just more “lalalalalaIcanthearyou!” > > I listen to ALan Colmes on the XM version of Air America, who has more callers than most Air America shows do, and I hear this kind of thing over and over and over again. it’s deeply depressing, but no longer even a little bit surprising. I know, I should have known better. They don’t listen. They don’t care about the truth. I expect to hear the same lies regurgitated by these ill-informed drones ("[Kerry] voted for the war before [he] voted against it." Only he didn’t, even though he mistakenly phrased it that way. Nevermind that [Republican Representative Nick Smith’s speech to the Committee on International Relations](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5257376#post5257376) 100% supports what Kerry clarified he was saying as true – the damage was done and The Machine pounded it and pounded it and pounded it, just like the schoolyard bullies that they are, and the drones drank it up like, well, the proverbial kool-aid.), which is why I didn’t waste my time doing a point-by-point response to this one. But what I would never have dreamed in a million years is that someone would actually compare the outing of a law-abiding CIA operative _by_ a corrupt administration, to the exposure _of_ a corrupt administration that was _illegally_ selling arms to our enemy, then using those ill-gotten funds to _illegally_ fund a rebel war that Congress had voted not to support. And worse yet, the way I read her comment, it sounds like she’s actually trying to _defend_ what the CIA and the Regan/Bush administration did! It’s just damn depressing to know that there are people out there who are more concerned with (and cast their votes based on) what other people drive and drink as opposed to learning the facts about events that shape our very world, and the integrity of the parties to those events. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > In your defense, you wrote that you’re too young to remember Iran Contra. That’s no defense at all. I GAVE her the links to read. Google/Ask Jeeves/Yahoo/MSN/Wikkipedia could all have filled in blanks she didn’t know. She WILLFULLY ignored the information I posted and proved me right that she wasn’t interested in learning the truth, by not only regurgitating the same old, same old lies, but brazenly admitting that she doesn’t know what the hell she’s talking about, as if that’s an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/128 "2005-07-25T18:49:41Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > IIt’s just damn depressing to know that there are people out there who are more concerned with (and cast their votes based on) what other people drive and drink … I see you’re at least not too young to remember Chappaquidick. 🙂 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/129 "2005-07-25T18:56:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I see you’re at least not too young to remember Chappaquidick. > > 🙂 > > Regards, > Shodan Cite that Ted Kennedy was drunk? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/130 "2005-07-25T19:16:33Z")
It would be better to ask for a cite that he was sober. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/131 "2005-07-25T19:27:57Z")
No. if the allegation is that he was drunk then that allegation needs to be supported. If the allegation cannot be supported then it should be withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/132 "2005-07-25T19:38:36Z")
The Boston Irish version: Poor Teddy was jist takin’ that Mary Jo girl to midnight Mass, when he went across a bridge built by one o’ them Eyetalian contractors. [Wikipedia:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy): > [@](#): > > Due to a lack of evidence other than Kennedy’s own word, allegations persist that he was drunk, that he did not try to save Kopechne, and that he intentionally turned onto the road crossing the bridge going to the beach in order to have sex with her. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/133 "2005-07-25T20:57:32Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No. if the allegation is that he was drunk then that allegation needs to be supported. If the allegation cannot be supported then it should be withdrawn. Not according to **Finn** ’s Rules of Discussion… I’m a borderline Libertarian/Republican. I’d be more of a Libertarian if I was less pragmatic. I do my part by voting for the people who I think will do the best job, with my goals in mind formost. Currently, the political landscape offers little difference in economic views, which is sadly where I’d like more conservativity. I’d like a lot of political reform, removing corruption, pork and special interest influence. I don’t like a lot of the rhetoric from either side, especially the doom-sayers on the left. But life rarely offers the ideal, just the chance to strive for it. As for the current administration, I think it’s done some very good things and a few bad things. Sadly, I think it has done a worse job of implimenting these things. I wish the GOP would stop pandering to the Moral Majority so much. Who are they gonna vote for? The Dems? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/134 "2005-07-26T00:55:37Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I wish the GOP would stop pandering to the Moral Majority so much. Who are they gonna vote for? The Dems? That’s really nothing new. I remember it during the Reagan years, and that’s when I left the party and turned into a Democrat. It was one of the bigger reasons. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/135 "2005-07-26T06:54:07Z")
Are there any honorable Republicans? > [@Rev. Timothy Lovejoy](#): > > “…ooooh short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but…” Personally, I know of some descent Republicans who, philosophically, appear to be in turmoil. When I tell them that the Bush government, is the largest government ever (that’s adjusted for GDP percentage) they can’t use the good old “big government” whine. As I had lamented before, the old William F. Buckley type conservative is gone forever. I wonder if republicans realize how hard it was to argue against a small government philosophy. It had legitimate merit and was very hard to defend against. Alas, now all we have is cranks like **Sam Stone** who pedal the standard republican hypocrisy that is force fed him from Faux. Another thing they can’t complain about is politicians now that they control all 3 branches of the government. They can’t complain about term limits because once they had power they decided that was not a good idea. Honestly, I find that good conservatives have gone to the libertarian party and that the best republican president, that is, the one who reduced the size of government, reformed welfare, and was very involved with running a healthy economy, was William Jefferson Clinton. This is the reason for the hate towards our brother Slick Willy. Perjury doesn’t have an effect on their opinion it would seem. Finally, I think that the republican party is the one who has brought mean-spirited partisan politics into the mainstream. Everyone slings mud but Rove and those like him have sunk to new and ever lower scum-filled levels. I think that the republican party no long has a guiding philosophy other than to capitalize on whatever hate filled reason to motivate ignorant voters that they can cling to. And there in lies one the the greatest problems with the republican party, it’s power comes from an uninformed and ignorant constituency. There’s a reason why universities are nests for liberals and that is because it is a more intellectually sound position. There is a reason why artists and intellectuals are liberal. Bottom line, I think that republicans are having a hard time justifying there behavior over the past 20 years now that they are in power. They basically had to sell their political souls to gain the world as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/136 "2005-07-26T12:19:19Z")
> [@The Highwayman](#): > > Alas, now all we have is cranks like **S… S** who pedal the standard … hypocrisy … Neato metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/137 "2005-07-26T12:26:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I liked it better before the two parties started the whole time-share thing. Republicans used to stand for economic freedom, and Democrats used to stand for personal freedom. It was all very simple. It was easy to discern which dick was up your ass at a given time. This is the greatest political statement I have ever seen. Bravo!!! If it were a bit shorter I’d want it for a signature! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/138 "2005-07-26T13:34:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I see you’re at least not too young to remember Chappaquidick. > > 🙂 > > Regards, > Shodan Fuck Chappaquidick. That has shit to do with this conversation. It has shit to do with what your frat boy did to this country. I despise Ted kennedy for my own reasons, but it has nothing to do with anything right here and right now. Let’s talk about Bush, and how he used to get stoned ad go drovong, shall we? Let’s talk about his college days when drinking and partying were more important than get educated (with obvious results). Let’s talk about he and his chickenhawk draft dodging friends started two wars for personal glory and lied to us all to do it. Let’s talk about Jack Kemp, who was too infirm for the draft but strong enough for pro football. Let’s talk about Iran-Contra. Shit, let’s talk about Remembering the Maine too while we’re at it. It’s all about as relevant. I’m shocked shocked that you failed to mention The Mandate this time. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/139 "2005-07-26T14:09:17Z")
**SteveG1** - You forgot “Clinton got impeached for a blow job”. Try to keep up, won’t you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/140 "2005-07-26T14:16:19Z")
Clinton was impeached for daring to get reelected. The blow job “prejury” trap was just a last ditch tactic after Starr proved utterly unable to find any wrongdoing in Whitewater. I hope all those who feigned such outrage at Clinton’s “perjury” will show equal outrage that Karl Rove apparently perjured himself by his statements that he was not the first source of the Plame leak. I’m not holding my breath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691.md?page=8)