# Honorable Republicans - are you out there? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691 "2005-07-22T19:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/141 "2005-07-26T14:18:06Z")
If only we’d had more snark at the Alamo, Davy Crockett might have died in bed. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/142 "2005-07-26T14:29:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **SteveG1** - > > You forgot “Clinton got impeached for a blow job”. Try to keep up, won’t you? > > Regards, > Shodan Do you ever add to a debate or conversation, or is your whole life just a series of bullshit driveby comments? Stop being such a partisan hack. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/143 "2005-07-26T14:46:37Z")
A thread like this one gets exactly what it deserves from me, darlin’ boy. Partisan bullshit begets partisan bullshit. Deal with it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/144 "2005-07-26T14:53:19Z")
Aww, c’mon, **Steve** : what’s a punchbowl without a log floating serenely? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/145 "2005-07-26T15:02:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Aww, c’mon, **Steve** : what’s a punchbowl without a log floating serenely? It’s an example of what so disgusts me. People don’t care that their country is held in contempt and is viewed with disdain. They don’t care that their own people are getting killed fighting for “what are we fighting for - the story kept changing”. They don’t care that that every one of those reasons proved false. They don’t care that we are seeing our constitution being shredded - due process, trial by jury, quick and speedy public trial, unreasonable search and seizure, privacy, free press, propery ownership rights, separation of church and state, all of it is being chipped away. Instead it’s party before country and a personality cult (how the FUCK did that happen, when Bush has no personality???). People believe lies and either ignore or shout down truth, even when that truth comes with witnesses and evidence. Party before country. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/146 "2005-07-26T15:03:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > A thread like this one gets exactly what it deserves from me, darlin’ boy. > > Partisan bullshit begets partisan bullshit. Deal with it. > > Regards, > Shodan Should I assume the whole Rove investigation is just partisan bullshit as well? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/147 "2005-07-26T15:13:31Z")
I’m just shocked that anyone expects better from **Shodan** , for Og’s sake… ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/148 "2005-07-26T15:14:49Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Should I assume the whole Rove investigation is just partisan bullshit as well? Yes, I think that is the idea. > [@Shodan](#): > > Partisan bullshit begets partisan bullshit. Deal with it. Problem is, the liberal on this board aren’t spotting bullshit, they are stating real examples of problems caused by the current administration, while you (Shodan) are simply posting examples of things that are bad, but not nearly as bad the problem demonstrated by your party. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/149 "2005-07-26T15:43:40Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Should I assume the whole Rove investigation is just partisan bullshit as well? Not Rove - Ken Starr. 😉 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/150 "2005-07-26T17:08:36Z")
Gee, I hate to interrupt this dick-measuring contest amongst you boys, but may I drag the thread back on topic? Far be it for a liberal like me to stray from partisan bullshit, but I’ll do so (for the second time in this discussion, ignored by **Shodan** ) by mentioning another honorable Republican who has cropped up. [According to a reporter from the _Wall Street Journal_](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05207/543937.stm), Scott Bowen, a former aide to GWB and lobbyist for contracts in Iraq, has removed his rose-garden-colored glasses and is daring to reveal some of the corruption going on during Iraq reconstruction. For example (emphasis mine): > [@The above linked article from Post-Gazette.com](#): > > During a routine audit last summer of an American office in charge of doling out reconstruction funding in Hillah, Iraq, U.S. government investigators made a series of startling discoveries. > > The office had paid a contractor twice for the same work. A U.S. official was allowed to handle millions of dollars in cash weeks after he was fired for incompetence. _Of the $119.9 million allocated for regional projects, $89.4 million was disbursed without contracts or other documentation. An additional $7.2 million couldn’t be found at all._ > > To many officials in both Baghdad and Washington, the only thing more surprising than the problems was the identity of the man who had uncovered them: Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction. > > … > > In one of his most attention-grabbing reports, issued on Jan. 30, 2005, Mr. Bowen concluded that the American occupation authority _failed to keep track of nearly $9 billion_ that it transferred to Iraqi government ministries, which lacked financial controls and internal safeguards to prevent abuse. One Iraqi ministry cited in the audit inflated its payroll to receive extra funds, claiming to employ 8,206 guards when it actually employed barely 600. Should be a surprise to no one that Bowen is now being being lambasted and shunned by people he once called friends, even though he still professes admiration towards Bush (hey, I didn’t say he was perfect): > [@](#): > > Despite endorsements from initially skeptical Democrats, Mr. Bowen insists that his work shouldn’t be seen through the prism of partisan politics. He says he rarely hears from anyone in the White House these days – either professionally or socially. He says he remains an admirer of President Bush. The only picture in Mr. Bowen’s suburban Virginia office other than a photograph of his children is a framed shot of the two men at a White House dinner. Thank God Bowen doesn’t have a wife working undercover. Really, one can almost understand why so few Republicans in the public eye have spoken against the administration. Those who dare to say anything negative are tarred, feathered, and hung out to dry by a group of some of the most vindictive and nasty politicians in recent memory. Please pardon my hijack of the hijack. You may now return to your dick-measuring contest – here, I’ll even supply the magnifying glass. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/151 "2005-07-26T17:17:07Z")
This guy Bowen does sound like the genuine article. For a needle-dick bug-fucker, that is. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/152 "2005-07-27T00:02:16Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Thank God Bowen doesn’t have a wife working undercover. > > Really, one can almost understand why so few Republicans in the public eye have spoken against the administration. Those who dare to say anything negative are tarred, feathered, and hung out to dry by a group of some of the most vindictive and nasty politicians in recent memory. 😛 Did Bowen ever prove he was not beating his wife? Did his wife give him that cushy assignment? Does he still hate freedom? Why does he hate America? [LBJ]I can’t call him a pig fucker, but I can sure as hell make him deny it.[/LBJ] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/153 "2005-07-27T00:59:30Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Instead it’s party before country and a personality cult (how the FUCK did that happen, when Bush has no personality???). I think it operates kind of like tofu – it just picks up the flavor of whatever it’s presented with. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/154 "2005-07-27T02:36:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Instead it’s party before country and a personality cult (how the FUCK did that happen, when Bush has no personality???). What do you guys want? He’s already cleared all the brush in Texas… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/155 "2005-07-27T12:45:58Z")
> [@mstay](#): > > What do you guys want? He’s already cleared all the brush in Texas… Hmmmmm. Macho talk. Macho acts. Must be “compensating” for ummm shall we say a “deficiency down under”? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/156 "2005-07-27T13:29:13Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Instead it’s party before country I’d back up a little and say it’s \*money \* before either party or country. Doesn’t it depress you that so many people put their votes up for auction, supporting whoever says they’ll cut their taxes the most? Don’t they greatly outnumber the people who look further than the ends of their own noses, who feel themselves to be a part of a community, who feel responsibilities toward that community, who recognize that government is the instrument used to execute those responsibilities, not some alien occupying entity whose only purpose is to take your money? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/157 "2005-07-27T13:50:44Z")
> [@mstay](#): > > What do you guys want? He’s already cleared all the brush in Texas… How do you know it’s not the same bit of brush? One taping/photo op session of brush clearing, endlessly recycled? Who’d ever know the difference? I mean, c’mon! You see one patch of Texas brush, you’ve seen 'em all. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/158 "2005-07-27T14:35:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’d back up a little and say it’s \*money \* before either party or country. Doesn’t it depress you that so many people put their votes up for auction, supporting whoever says they’ll cut their taxes the most? Don’t they greatly outnumber the people who look further than the ends of their own noses, who feel themselves to be a part of a community, who feel responsibilities toward that community, who recognize that government is the instrument used to execute those responsibilities, not some alien occupying entity whose only purpose is to take your money? Actually, no, not exactly. And this is where I think both sides make a mistake – by villifying the other side instead of recognizing and accepting that each side does have some reasonableness in many (even if not all) of their positions. That’s why this thread isn’t about debating whether it’s honorable to _be_ a Republican, but whether there are any honorable ones out there who will step up and admit the serious problems with this particular administration. I think we’d all prefer our taxes be lower. If a Democratic candidate made that part of his or her platform, I don’t think you’d hear we Dems scoffing and rallying, “No Lower Taxes!” That’s absurd. And I honestly believe that most Republicans understand and agree with the need to provide tax dollars for some of the public services we all receive. We just differ on how much and for what purpose. And there’s nothing inherantly dishonorable about that. Don’t forget that it was a Democratic president who managed to initiate and pass welfare reform. And even as a Democrat, I can at least understand and appreciate that one of the objections to welfare in the first place is the wanton abuse by lazy and/or tricky people, not necessarily that it exists at all (though there are some individuals who certainly do disdain its existence, I don’t believe that’s the view of the Republican party as a whole). I’m damn glad we’ve worked to clean it up. It was a waste of taxpayer funds and even I hold some resentment for those who abuse the system, while still appreciating that it’s critical that we, as a society, have a safety net for families who fall on hard times. We may differ on issues such as abortion, or stem cell research, but at least we should be able to respect the feelings of those who truly believe in their hearts that embryos are human beings and that terminating their growth is akin to taking a life. I don’t necessarily agree, but I can at least understand where they’re coming from, and I know that if I did believe that, and I saw my government sanctioning such an act, I’d be horrified, too. We could go on and on, picking dissenting issues and debating those from each perspective – and we have, all over Great Debates and on the floor of Congress for decades. I think this is a good thing! It keeps all of us in check. But therein lies part of the problem with this particular administration. The key players in it are so damn good at their manipulative game that they’ve managed to hoodwink and/or extort (in some cases) support for their own greedy, power-hungry purposes. It’s this _administration_ that I think are evil, not necessarily the people in the party they’re supposed to be representing. That’s why some of us are hoping to find other Bowens within the party representation, and likewise, constituents who will do as he has and step up and call bullshit bullshit when they see it instead of justifying, excusing and, worse yet, _allowing and condoning_ the corruption that’s going in in this Administration. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/159 "2005-07-27T14:49:04Z")
Fair enough, **Shayna**. Actually, I should have mentioned the drumbeats aimed at the “God, Guns, and Gaybashing” segment of our society by only one party, as well, without it looking like simple vilification. At some point, the descriptions do add up to reality. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691/160 "2005-07-27T15:33:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’d back up a little and say it’s \*money \* before either party or country. Doesn’t it depress you that so many people put their votes up for auction, supporting whoever says they’ll cut their taxes the most? Don’t they greatly outnumber the people who look further than the ends of their own noses, who feel themselves to be a part of a community, who feel responsibilities toward that community, who recognize that government is the instrument used to execute those responsibilities, not some alien occupying entity whose only purpose is to take your money? From the viewpoint of the politicians, I don’t think it even is about money. I think it’s all about power. The money is just a points system for keeping score. From the voter’s viewpoint, is it about taxes? That is one thing true. But becoming ever more cynical and jaded, I suspect more and more that it is about selfishness, bigotry and ignorance. “Good Ol Joe hates them same people I hate, so I’m gonna vote for him. Yeah, it’s a free country, so long as everyone is just like me.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honorable-republicans-are-you-out-there/313691.md?page=9)