# Hooliganism at sports events in America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 25, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176 "2003-06-25T00:11:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/1 "2003-06-25T00:11:59Z")
I was wondering what sort of levels of hooliganism (if any) you get at sports events in America? I find that crowd violence is fairly common amongst football fans in Europe (although more so in the Thatcherite 80’s in England) and that the game is often seen as incidental to some of the ‘firms’ who participate, in fact in some circles it seems that the game is merely the date on which to have a massive fight. Does this happen anywhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/2 "2003-06-25T00:50:01Z")
Well, Chicago Bulls fans get dammed rowdy. (Basketball) And college kids cut up at Homecoming games (American Football–the last game played by a college team on its home field in the regular season). Not much else. Oh, the occasional drunken punch up in a bar, but that’s an individual thing, & not the kind of riot you hint at. Oddly, given our rep for violence, sports riots are really, really rare in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/3 "2003-06-25T00:51:09Z")
Not at all really. I remember once reading an article written by a Londoner on the differences between Americans and the rest of the world. One of the biggies he listed was the lack of “hooliganism” at sporting events. He was shocked that he could bring his wife to any sporting event and not give a second thought to her safety. The closest we come to it are occasional riots after “x” team (usually a college team) wins some major championship. ---
**Author:** ![Ave\_Minerva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@Ave\_Minerva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ave_Minerva)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/4 "2003-06-25T00:56:26Z")
There is a judge on duty at Philadelphia Eagles (American Football) games. I don’t believe that people go to the games with the specific intent of getting in a fight. They just have way too many beers and get caught up in the excitement. It got so bad that they increased security and set up a little courtroom in the stadium. I read a book a while back about English Football (soccer) hooligans called “Among the Thugs”. I don’t believe we have anything quite like that here. The cost of tickets and the distances involved in the States aren’t conducive to bands of hooligans traveling to other cities and starting trouble. However, we do tend to have riots whenever a team wins a championship. So, yes we do have some violence at sporting events here. ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/5 "2003-06-25T01:00:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*. > > Oh, the occasional drunken punch up in a bar, but that’s an individual thing, & not the kind of riot you hint at. > > Oddly, given our rep for violence, sports riots are really, really rare in the US. \*\* That is essentially what I was hinting at, America has a reputation for violence but doesn’t seem to have a problem with organized sports hooliganism, and i’m talking about large groups of people who organise huge punch ups with other (willing) fans of the opposite side, creating if you will a ‘sport’ of its own. Maybe this is what keeps the general levels of violence down in the UK! It could be a way of meatheads venting there frustrations on other willing meatheads without disturbing the general populace, maybe in a big arena or something and possibly televised - then you run the risk of having hooligans causing trouble because their team of hooligans lost…it could get complicated. ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/6 "2003-06-25T02:09:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WILLASS \* > \*\*That is essentially what I was hinting at, America has a reputation for violence but doesn’t seem to have a problem with organized sports hooliganism, and i’m talking about large groups of people who organise huge punch ups with other (willing) fans of the opposite side, creating if you will a ‘sport’ of its own. Maybe this is what keeps the general levels of violence down in the UK! It could be a way of meatheads venting there frustrations on other willing meatheads without disturbing the general populace, maybe in a big arena or something and possibly televised - then you run the risk of having hooligans causing trouble because their team of hooligans lost…it could get complicated. \*\* Interesting theory of yours that you threw out regarding why violence in UK general populance vs US is less because the UK relieves pressure during sporting events. I am not sure there is more violence in the US than in the UK per capita. What we do have in the US is some nasty gangs in urban areas that cause violence to be higher in those neighborhoods. Violence at sporting events in the US is more likely in the high school/college level and sometimes is a gang related fight. This was that way even when I was in high school approx 25 yrs ago. When our school would play a few other schools there were always a gang fight either during or after the game (American football games being the worse for the fan violence) Professional sports tends to be more family oriented. I even know women who enjoy watching professional boxing (myself not included). The bottom line is important for the owners of a professional team. The more fan base you have the better it is, so it is to their benefit ($$$) to attract women and children and make it a safe environment for them to be at. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/7 "2003-06-25T02:50:49Z")
Is it just a Soccer thing? We seem to hear about this sort of violence in mainland European countries as well, and they are do not have a reputation for being violent. What about American countries? Is there football (soccer) violence in Brazil, for example? In Australian sports it seems like most of the violence is on the paddock. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/8 "2003-06-25T03:20:49Z")
Are you speaking about… Cricket Hooligans!? ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/9 "2003-06-25T03:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by antechinus \* > \*\* > > What about American countries? Is there football (soccer) violence in Brazil, for example? > > . \*\* South American countries have some of the most severe problems and dangerous hooligans in the world I will find a cite shortly ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/10 "2003-06-25T05:20:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WILLASS \* > **I find that crowd violence is fairly common amongst football fans in Europe (although more so in the Thatcherite 80’s in England)** It’s definitely not “fairly common” now, at least not at the games I have attended regularly (in Scotland, Ireland and Spain). In fact, it’s actually fairly _un_-common. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/11 "2003-06-25T08:18:04Z")
Nor is it common in England any more. Where do you watch your football **WILLASS**? BTW, this thread might answer a few questions about football crowd behaviour: Football (soccer) and hooliganism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/12 "2003-06-25T09:42:39Z")
Its not common in England… but you can’t honestly claim that England away games are anything other than dangerous. Incidentally, there IS fan violence in the US- witness the Kansas City Royals (baseball team) coach that was mauled by a father and son (how sweet) a few months ago, and there have been several similar incidents since. Also, I go quite regularly to Orlando Magic basketball games, and although the O-Rena (or TD Waterhouse Center now) is fairly small as urban arenas go, there are ALWAYS at least a dozen small fights that the entire crowd cheers every game. Here’s the rub, though- how often do you seen PLAYERS involved in serious brawls in European sport? Baseball games in particular involve what they call “bench-clearing brawls” (even the guys who aren’t starting, and occasionally the coaches, paunch and all, join in). When I was growing up in England the only time you ever saw that sort of thing was on rugby tours of South Africa… ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/13 "2003-06-25T10:10:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > **I remember once reading an article written by a Londoner on the differences between Americans and the rest of the world. One of the biggies he listed was the lack of “hooliganism” at sporting events. He was shocked that he could bring his wife to any sporting event and not give a second thought to her safety.** That article must have been written a while ago. In my recent experience wives and girlfriends don’t need much persuading to go to football (unless they just don’t like the sport). I’ve often had nieces and nephews sitting on my knee during a game because they were too small to see from their own seat. No, **dutchboy208** , of couse I wouldn’t claim there are no problems at internationals (that’s why I only do club matches). ---
**Author:** ![Doctordec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Doctordec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctordec)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/14 "2003-06-25T12:12:16Z")
We had the now famous beer bottle throwing incident a few years ago at a Cleveland Browns game. The crowd pelted the field with plastic bottles after a terribly bad call by the officials and the game was ended early. I don’t recall that anyone was seriosly hurt at the game and they don’t sell beer in bottles anymore at the stadium. The Pittsburgh-Cleveland football game is a bit scary at times, I’ve seen a few fights in the stands and cars with Pennsylvania license plates have had their tires cut in the parking lot. Baseball is usually safer but I was fortunate to have attended the “Nickel Beer Night” riot at the old Cleveland stadium. The Indians ended up in a forfeit because they couldn’t keep the drunken crowd off the field, not because of violence. But hey, you sell unlimited beer for five cents a cup and what do you expect ? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/15 "2003-06-25T12:15:35Z")
But there is no _ongoing tradition_ of sports violence here. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/16 "2003-06-25T12:20:09Z")
I guess many of you have never been to a Rangers-Islanders hockey game. Hooliganism galore. (For those outside North America, New York has two hockey teams. Their fans tend to dislike each other, and when the two teams meet there is always a faction of the other team’s supporters on hand due to the proximity of each team’s arena.) I saw such an event on St. Patrick’s Day (a brilliant moment in scheduling) at the Nassau Coliseum (the Islanders home arena). I was safely seated in the last row with my friend and his father. Our section was relatively low key, (mostly taunting and cursing) but extreme brawls broke out all over the place, many involving the security team. And yes, the Islanders won.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/17 "2003-06-25T13:42:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*But there is no _ongoing tradition_ of sports violence here. \*\* What would count as an _ongoing tradition_ **Bosda**? **BwanaBob** & **Doctordec** : Alcohol and scheduling both play a big part in crowd behaviour whetever the sport. A notorious incident occurred last March at the game between [Aston Villa and Birmingham City](http://www.ananova.com/sport/soccer/PREM/AstonVilla/story/sm_756885.html?menu=). Those two teams share a city, their fans don’t like each other and there had been some trouble at the reverse fixture earlier in the season. Yet at the request of a Rupert Murdoch-owned satellite TV station, the match was scheduled for the evening of a public holiday, giving fans all day to fuel up on beer if they wanted to. A couple of controversial refereeing decisions and bad responses from players was all it needed for some idiots in the crowd to act up. Nevertheless, incidents like that are rare these days and I’m still waiting for the OP to justify his observation that “crowd violence is fairly common”. His remark that “in some circles it seems that the game is merely the date on which to have a massive fight” is also misleading. Policing at stadiums (and control of alcohol sales) makes large-scale violence a thing of the past _except miles away from the stadiums themselves_, and although that’s obnoxious if it happens it has no impact on the enjoyment of people watching the game. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/18 "2003-06-25T13:54:25Z")
[This LINk pertains to Soccer Hooligans. It is also very funny.](http://www.grudge-match.com/History/soccer.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/19 "2003-06-25T14:42:06Z")
_…very funny._ You’re going to get us bumped to IMHO at this rate. I’m groaning not laughing over here ;). ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176/20 "2003-06-25T15:17:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*_…very funny._ > > You’re going to get us bumped to IMHO at this rate. I’m groaning not laughing over here ;). \*\* Why shouldn’t we get bumped? Everything said here, except historical cites, **is** opinion! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hooliganism-at-sports-events-in-america/184176.md?page=2)