# Hope for the Republican Party of the future? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423 "2014-03-11T13:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/201 "2014-03-21T13:44:58Z")
Relevant article: [“How the GOP became the white supremacy party — and got away with it”](http://www.salon.com/2014/03/21/how_the_gop_became_the_white_supremacy_party_%e2%80%94_and_got_away_with_it_partner/). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/202 "2014-03-21T14:24:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s true only if prices don’t go way up, which they will be this fall. That’s not going to look good. “Way up” is a term that lacks precision, don’t you think? Or don’t you? Perhaps, if you are not too busy, you might tell us just perzackly what those words mean? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/203 "2014-03-21T17:10:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Relevant article: [“How the GOP became the white supremacy party — and got away with it”](http://www.salon.com/2014/03/21/how_the_gop_became_the_white_supremacy_party_%e2%80%94_and_got_away_with_it_partner/). From this article: "White privilege is an assumption that whiteness, and white people, are benign. White privilege is also an assumption of preeminent good intent and innocence. The historical record suggests otherwise: whiteness was born of violence towards people of color." Wow. Sorry, but a white person is not responsible for the sins of whites in the past. Using “white privilege” as an excuse for racial prejudice against whites by blaming them for past injustice is evil. And it even defines “whiteness” as white privilege, as if a white person can’t possibly be white any other way. (Meanwhile, people are busy saying race isn’t even a real thing, but a social construct). ALL people should be treated as innocent until proven guilty, and presumed to have good intent until otherwise shown. That’s the basic principle behind opposition to racial prejudice. This is a very disturbing, but not surprising, abuse of the concept of white privilege – using it as an excuse for racism directed at whites. People should be treated as individuals and judged by their actions, not by race. Pretty simple. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/204 "2014-03-21T17:56:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Way up” is a term that lacks precision, don’t you think? Or don’t you? Perhaps, if you are not too busy, you might tell us just perzackly what those words mean? Up more than the normal annual increase in premiums. The administration has specifically said they will be lower than they were before ACA was passed. The insurers disagree, and they are the ones who decide these things, not the administration. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/205 "2014-03-21T18:01:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Relevant article: [“How the GOP became the white supremacy party — and got away with it”](http://www.salon.com/2014/03/21/how_the_gop_became_the_white_supremacy_party_%e2%80%94_and_got_away_with_it_partner/). What it should have said: “How Democrats lost the white vote and found a way to make themselves feel morally superior for losing the white vote.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/206 "2014-03-21T18:02:49Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > From this article: > > "White privilege is an assumption that whiteness, and white people, are benign. White privilege is also an assumption of preeminent good intent and innocence. > > The historical record suggests otherwise: whiteness was born of violence towards people of color." > > Wow. > > Sorry, but a white person is not responsible for the sins of whites in the past. Using “white privilege” as an excuse for racial prejudice against whites by blaming them for past injustice is evil. > > And it even defines “whiteness” as white privilege, as if a white person can’t possibly be white any other way. (Meanwhile, people are busy saying race isn’t even a real thing, but a social construct). > > ALL people should be treated as innocent until proven guilty, and presumed to have good intent until otherwise shown. That’s the basic principle behind opposition to racial prejudice. This is a very disturbing, but not surprising, abuse of the concept of white privilege – using it as an excuse for racism directed at whites. > > People should be treated as individuals and judged by their actions, not by race. Pretty simple. You are demonstrating a misunderstanding of white privelige and even “whiteness” (as used in this article) – both of these are societal concepts, not racial concepts. “Whiteness”, as in the societal concept (not the race), really was born of violence – in the US, it was “born” as a way to distinguish the people-that-can-be-enslaved from the people-that-cannot-be-enslaved, through extreme violence and terror (which grew and grew for decades afterwards). You are falling into the trap of assuming it is reasonable to treat any anti-white bias and bigotry similarly to anti-black (or other non-white groups) bias and bigotry. They are not the same. Bias and bigotry from members of an out-power group towards members of an in-power group is different than the other way around. It has always been different. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/207 "2014-03-21T18:06:26Z")
In your mind, perhaps. I think Reginald Denny would disagree that his beating was different from Rodney King’s except for the weapons used. So how does minority/minority prejudice fit into your worldview? Is it less awful for blacks to hate Koreans than for Koreans to hate blacks? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/208 "2014-03-21T18:14:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In your mind, perhaps. I think Reginald Denny would disagree that his beating was different from Rodney King’s except for the weapons used. > > So how does minority/minority prejudice fit into your worldview? Is it less awful for blacks to hate Koreans than for Koreans to hate blacks? Nope, you’re not getting it. If we’re just talking about individuals, then I would judge bigotry the same. But when society is in the mix, then they’re not. Black bigotry towards whites does not register on the radar of “harm to individuals and society” when compared to white bigotry towards blacks, both through history and in the present. [Here](http://jamietheignorantamerican.tumblr.com/post/72154890106/go-forth-and-educate-yourselves) is a simplified primer on white privilege. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/209 "2014-03-21T18:15:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You are demonstrating a misunderstanding of white privelige and even “whiteness” (as used in this article) – both of these are societal concepts, not racial concepts. And that demonstrates how preposterous they are! White is a race. Not a “societal concept.” By confusing the two, it gives one permission to take a societal concept and apply it to those in a race instead. > [@](#): > > “Whiteness”, as in the societal concept (not the race), really was born of violence – in the US, it was “born” as a way to distinguish the people-that-can-be-enslaved from the people-that-cannot-be-enslaved, through extreme violence and terror (which grew and grew for decades afterwards). No, that’s white supremacy, which is a belief, not race. You don’t see any problem with using a class of people and labeling it as a historical concept? What if I chose to do that with “blackness” – you don’t see the pitfalls? > [@](#): > > You are falling into the trap of assuming it is reasonable to treat any anti-white bias and bigotry similarly to anti-black (or other non-white groups) bias and bigotry. They are not the same. Bias and bigotry from members of an out-power group towards members of an in-power group is different than the other way around. It has always been different. Bullshit! This is absolutely and totally false. Bigotry and prejudice are always wrong, regardless of the victim. There is no possible way to justify bigotry against a white person that doesn’t open up justification of bigotry against a black person, or anyone else, too. All people should be judged by the content of their character. Period. If you can’t accept that, you have no business even discussing racism. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/210 "2014-03-21T18:16:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Nope, you’re not getting it. If we’re just talking about individuals, then I would judge bigotry the same. You’re not getting it. We are ALWAYS talking about individuals. People are individuals, not “society.” If you want to talk about society, just do that. > [@](#): > > Black bigotry towards whites does not register on the radar of “harm to individuals and society” when compared to white bigotry towards blacks, both through history and in the present. It’s still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/211 "2014-03-21T18:20:10Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > And that demonstrates how preposterous they are! > > White is a race. Not a “societal concept.” By confusing the two, it gives one permission to take a societal concept and apply it to those in a race instead. It’s also a societal concept, as is color. It can be both. > [@](#): > > No, that’s white supremacy, which is a belief, not race. You are wrong here. “Whiteness” can describe a societal concept as well as a race. > [@](#): > > You don’t see any problem with using a class of people and labeling it as a historical concept? What if I chose to do that with “blackness” – you don’t see the pitfalls? “Blackness” is probably also a societal concept – as is the more general “people of color”. When used as a societal concept, it does not necessarily overlap/synonymize with the entire race that uses the same word. > [@](#): > > Bullshit! > > This is absolutely and totally false. Bigotry and prejudice are always wrong, regardless of the victim. There is no possible way to justify bigotry against a white person that doesn’t open up justification of bigotry against a black person, or anyone else, too. This doesn’t contradict anything I said. I never said any sort of bigotry is acceptable or not wrong, I just said they are not all the same. > [@](#): > > All people should be judged by the content of their character. Period. If you can’t accept that, you have no business even discussing racism. Again, not contradicting anything I’ve said. You’re still missing my point, so I’ll think and read about it and try again. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/212 "2014-03-21T18:21:13Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You’re not getting it. > > We are ALWAYS talking about individuals. People are individuals, not “society.” If you want to talk about society, just do that. Society exists (and has people in it). I can talk about both. > [@](#): > > It’s still wrong. Which I have not contradicted. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/213 "2014-03-21T18:24:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Society exists (and has people in it). I can talk about both. But you can’t mix them up. You can’t blame individuals for society, or for what others have done just because they are members of a certain group. That’s what racists do. You can’t use the logic of racism when opposing racism. > [@](#): > > Which I have not contradicted. Sure as hell looks like you have to me. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/214 "2014-03-21T18:26:29Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But you can’t mix them up. > > You can’t blame individuals for society, or for what others have done just because they are members of a certain group. > > That’s what racists do. You can’t use the logic of racism when opposing racism. I’m not blaming any individuals (except Paul Ryan, and others who have said racist things, whether they meant to or not). > [@](#): > > Sure as hell looks like you have to me. LOL. I’m sorry that you’ve misunderstood me. Perhaps you’d like to point out where I blamed any individuals (besides people who actually said or did racist stuff) “for society”. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/215 "2014-03-21T18:29:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s also a societal concept, as is color. It can be both. So for instance, when someone says a black person should “stop acting so black” would that be okay with you? > [@](#): > > You are wrong here. “Whiteness” can describe a societal concept as well as a race. But it’s a racist way of describing a societal concept. It implies that all whites accept or are responsible for it. It invites confusion between the two, perhaps deliberately. > [@](#): > > “Blackness” is probably also a societal concept – as is the more general “people of color”. When used as a societal concept, it does not necessarily overlap/synonymize with the entire race that uses the same word. Okay, so please tell me how you define “blackness” as a societal concept. > [@](#): > > This doesn’t contradict anything I said. I never said any sort of bigotry is acceptable or not wrong, I just said they are not all the same. But it sure appears that you did: > [@](#): > > Bias and bigotry from members of an out-power group towards members of an in-power group is different than the other way around. It has always been different. I read “different” to mean one is more acceptable than the other. So what do you mean by “different” exactly? More acceptable? How does this “difference” matter? Maybe you could give a concrete example. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/216 "2014-03-21T18:31:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not blaming any individuals But the Salon article does. > [@](#): > > LOL. I’m sorry that you’ve misunderstood me. Perhaps you’d like to point out where I blamed any individuals (besides people who actually said or did racist stuff) “for society”. I’m saying the use of a race to describe a societal concept invites this. It assumes all members of that group are part of that concept and not individuals. Back to the article: \*\*White privilege is an assumption that whiteness, and white people, are benign. White privilege is also an assumption of preeminent good intent and innocence. \*\* Do you not see the problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/217 "2014-03-21T18:33:20Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > From this article: > > "White privilege is an assumption that whiteness, and white people, are benign. White privilege is also an assumption of preeminent good intent and innocence. > > The historical record suggests otherwise: whiteness was born of violence towards people of color." > > Wow. > > Sorry, but a white person is not responsible for the sins of whites in the past. Using “white privilege” as an excuse for racial prejudice against whites by blaming them for past injustice is evil. > > And it even defines “whiteness” as white privilege, as if a white person can’t possibly be white any other way. (Meanwhile, people are busy saying race isn’t even a real thing, but a social construct). > > ALL people should be treated as innocent until proven guilty, and presumed to have good intent until otherwise shown. That’s the basic principle behind opposition to racial prejudice. This is a very disturbing, but not surprising, abuse of the concept of white privilege – using it as an excuse for racism directed at whites. > > People should be treated as individuals and judged by their actions, not by race. Pretty simple. What about this bit, then? > [@](#): > > Colorblind racism inverts reality and distorts the facts. It involves denying that racism still exists as a serious social problem; black and brown people are limited in their life chances not because of institutional discrimination but because of their “bad culture” or “laziness”; white supremacy and systems of white racial advantage are dismissed as either exaggerated or non-existent; racism is reduced to mean words by white people, as opposed to systematic institutional discrimination against people of color. > > The most perverse result of colorblind racism is that many white people now believe that they are “victims” of “racism”, and that “anti-white racism” is a larger problem in the United States than is discrimination against black and brown Americans. Mountains of research and empirical data detail how Americans society is oriented around maintaining white privilege and white material advantages over people of color. > > Colorblind racism overrides those facts by distorting white people’s (and some others’) ability to process and understand reality. > > Paul Ryan’s “inner city” comment is a quintessential example of colorblind racism. He cannot plainly state that lazy black people are genetically predisposed to idleness, crime, violence, and sexual promiscuity. However, Ryan can suggest that the supposed failures of black people are really their own fault, and that all they need to do is “work hard” and have “good culture” to get ahead in America like “normal” (read: white) people. > > Paul Ryan’s defenders are enabling colorblind racism by trafficking in its other distortion of reality: white victimology. Paul Ryan is portrayed as a victim of political correctness. Black conservatives such as Ron Christie claim that Ryan is a “truth-teller”. Ryan will tell interviewers that he is just misunderstood and is being unfairly criticized. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/218 "2014-03-21T18:34:45Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Back to the article: > > \*\*White privilege is an assumption that whiteness, and white people, are benign. White privilege is also an assumption of preeminent good intent and innocence. > \*\* > > Do you not see the problem with that? Of course I see the problem with it, but the statement is an accurate diagnosis of a real social phenomenon; the problem is that that phenomenon **exists.** ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/219 "2014-03-21T18:35:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What about this bit, then? What about it? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/220 "2014-03-21T18:36:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Of course I see the problem with it, but the statement is an accurate diagnosis of a real social phenomenon; the problem is that that phenomenon **exists.** Huh? It’s not a diagnosis of a problem, it’s a declaration that some people can be judged by their race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423.md?page=12)