# Hope for the Republican Party of the future? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423 "2014-03-11T13:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/241 "2014-03-21T22:02:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We can acknowledge that things like what Paul Ryan said are probably racist, even if he didn’t mean it that way. That’s not my point. I’m not sure what Paul Ryan or his statements have to do with white privilege at all. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/242 "2014-03-21T22:05:41Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > I don’t blame MOST White people for the sins of the past. I **DO** blame a number of them for the sins that they allow to continue. That’s what "White privilege "is. How is that "white privilege?"That’s you describing who you blame for it. And exactly who are these people you blame for “allowing to continue” sins of the past? How are they allowing it to continue? What do you suggest a white person do to eliminate white privilege? And how do you know they haven’t yet? > [@](#): > > When the playing field becomes level, let me know. This isn’t about whether the playing field is level, it’s how to level it the best way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/243 "2014-03-21T22:26:47Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Okay. New question - SHOULD it exist? NO. Absolutely not! We need to kill it, kill it with fire! > [@](#): > > LOL! Yeah, that’s it. Millions of white people in America live like barons. Sigh. I said “very low-grade”. I assumed you were capable of understanding nuance. > [@](#): > > Why not just say that? Why make up this weird thing called “whiteness,” as if it’s some kind of complex thing? It just means white people. Except that it doesn’t just mean white people. It means the system that has been in existence for centuries that makes it just a bit easier for white people to get by and just a bit tougher for people of color (and for most of those centuries, it was a lot more than “just a bit”). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/244 "2014-03-21T22:28:42Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I think you’re wrong: > > "White privilege is an assumption that whiteness, **and white people,** are benign. White privilege is also an assumption of preeminent good intent and innocence. > > The historical record suggests otherwise: whiteness was born of violence towards people of color." > > I read this as saying that all white people are guilty of the sins of history by virtue of being white. It’s the sociological version of original sin. I do not read it this way at all. I read it as an accurate description of how American society has, in general, created and treated “whiteness” and white people. It does not say all white people are guilty of anything at all. Have you considered that perhaps you might be reading the author’s intentions wrong? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/245 "2014-03-21T22:58:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > NO. Absolutely not! We need to kill it, kill it with fire! Is that a serious answer? > [@](#): > > Sigh. I said “very low-grade”. I assumed you were capable of understanding nuance. Take my answer as nuanced. > [@](#): > > Except that it doesn’t just mean white people. And there you have it. That’s my point. That’s calling it “whiteness” is misleading and hazardous. > [@](#): > > It means the system that has been in existence for centuries that makes it just a bit easier for white people to get by and just a bit tougher for people of color (and for most of those centuries, it was a lot more than “just a bit”). Then just call it that. It’s a racist system. We don’t need a new name for it, especially one so ripe for abuse and confusion. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/246 "2014-03-21T23:00:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I do not read it this way at all. I read it as an accurate description of how American society has, in general, created and treated “whiteness” and white people. It does not say all white people are guilty of anything at all. So what’s all the talk about “White privilege is an assumption that whiteness, and white people, are benign. White privilege is also an assumption of preeminent good intent and innocence.” What’s the mean to you? Why is that there? How does that relate to just a general statement about society? > [@](#): > > Have you considered that perhaps you might be reading the author’s intentions wrong? Absolutely. I’m considering it now. I invite you to explain why I’m wrong. But you could be reading it wrong too. (By the way, thanks for a respectful discussion and tolerating my style. I’ve been experiencing some less-than-respectful and less-than-productive discussions about this here lately, so I appreciate it). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/247 "2014-03-21T23:21:46Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Is that a serious answer? Absolutely! “Whiteness” as a social construct is very, very bad and should end. > [@](#): > > Take my answer as nuanced. So you recognize my point about whiteness as a very low-grade nobility? > [@](#): > > And there you have it. That’s my point. That’s calling it “whiteness” is misleading and hazardous. I don’t think so. If you find it misleading, I don’t find that as an indictment of the name – I think it’s relatively clear if one thinks about it in relation to history. It’s “whiteness”, not “white people”. > [@](#): > > Then just call it that. It’s a racist system. We don’t need a new name for it, especially one so ripe for abuse and confusion. All this whining about etymology… I don’t choose the names. I’m just talking about the concepts that already have names. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/248 "2014-03-21T23:33:23Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So what’s all the talk about “White privilege is an assumption that whiteness, and white people, are benign. White privilege is also an assumption of preeminent good intent and innocence.” > > What’s the mean to you? Why is that there? How does that relate to just a general statement about society? As one example, it means that white people (in general) are given the benefit of the doubt after saying things/making mistakes like Paul Ryan did, while non-white people (in general) are not. > [@](#): > > Absolutely. I’m considering it now. I invite you to explain why I’m wrong. But you could be reading it wrong too. I could, but my agreement with the author (and the reasonableness in which I’m framing the argument [yay for awesome me]), for the most part, might be an indication that I am interpreting it more closely to how it was intended, as opposed to the inflammatory and extremely unreasonable way that you are interpreting it. > [@](#): > > (By the way, thanks for a respectful discussion and tolerating my style. I’ve been experiencing some less-than-respectful and less-than-productive discussions about this here lately, so I appreciate it). Different styles work with different folks and at different times. Sometimes pissing people off is a sign that they are misinterpreting you, sometimes that you’re arguing poorly, and sometimes that one of you is just an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/249 "2014-03-21T23:35:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Absolutely! “Whiteness” as a social construct is very, very bad and should end. I see that the original question was about “blackness”, which (as a social construct) is also bad and should end. All such divisive social constructs are bad and should end. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/250 "2014-03-22T03:30:30Z")
what I want to know is what Paul Ryan said that was any different from what the President has said on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/251 "2014-03-22T03:34:45Z")
From Obama’s arguably most famous speech at the DNC in 2004: \*\* Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach our kids to learn; they know that parents have to teach, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white. They know those things.\*\* Is that not a criticism of “culture”? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/252 "2014-03-22T04:14:30Z")
And here’s what Paul Ryan said: **We have got this tailspin of culture, in our inner cities in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work, and so there is a real culture problem here that has to be dealt with.** Now there are similarities. They both mentioned culture and inner cities. Obama’s statement was not divisive. He was telling people to go to the inner cities and talk to the people there. People would find out they have problems in common. Ryan, on the other hand, was telling his audience that people in the inner cities were the problem. It was a message of us vs them. He certainly wasn’t suggesting that “we” should get together with “them”. Obama was also telling people they have to take an active hand in solving their own problems. He was telling his listeners to take responsibility. Ryan was telling his audience that their problems were external. They don’t need to change - they’re fine the way they are. It’s somebody else’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/253 "2014-03-22T05:24:28Z")
Which means that if anything, he was making a concession. Let’s get real now, he isn’t being criticized for what you’re talking about, he’s being criticized for an observation about inner city culture. It’s not that he didn’t tell the truth, it’s just that white politicians aren’t supposed to speak that truth. But it’s not as if it’s not known. that was the whole purpose of the Million Man March. And Obama’s line about getting accused of acting white. That is obviously not a problem we all share. He was making an overt criticism of inner city culture there. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/254 "2014-03-22T09:53:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s not that he didn’t tell the truth, it’s just that white politicians aren’t supposed to speak that truth. Racism is not truth. ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Merton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Frank\_Merton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_Merton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/255 "2014-03-22T11:36:21Z")
If Republicans could get just twenty percent of the black vote in America they would be unassailable. The problem is how to get that without losing the racists. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/256 "2014-03-22T11:58:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Racism is not truth. Then the President is racist for criticizing black culture on numerous occasions? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/257 "2014-03-22T12:00:56Z")
> [@Frank\_Merton](#): > > If Republicans could get just twenty percent of the black vote in America they would be unassailable. The problem is how to get that without losing the racists. Well, if Democrats call enough black Republicans Uncle Toms or much worse names, just for being Republican, a larger percentage of black voters just might realize that a certain party hasn’t really changed as much as they claim. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/258 "2014-03-22T12:59:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then the President is racist for criticizing black culture on numerous occasions? When did the President say or imply that inner city people are lazy? Paul Ryan did, and he’s not the first Republican to do so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/259 "2014-03-22T13:00:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which means that if anything, he was making a concession. > > Let’s get real now, he isn’t being criticized for what you’re talking about, he’s being criticized for an observation about inner city culture. It’s not that he didn’t tell the truth, it’s just that white politicians aren’t supposed to speak that truth. But it’s not as if it’s not known. that was the whole purpose of the Million Man March. > > And Obama’s line about getting accused of acting white. That is obviously not a problem we all share. He was making an overt criticism of inner city culture there. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Ryan is being criticized for saying that inner city people are lazy. Especially considering that rural poverty rates are higher than urban poverty rates, it’s just a very dumb thing to say, aside from the implications about race. So no, he didn’t tell the truth. He told a falsehood. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/260 "2014-03-22T13:02:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, if Democrats call enough black Republicans Uncle Toms or much worse names, just for being Republican, a larger percentage of black voters just might realize that a certain party hasn’t really changed as much as they claim. LOL. And if my grandma had wheels… There is no evidence that the percentage of black voters that vote Democrat is shrinking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423.md?page=14)