# Hope for the Republican Party of the future? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423 "2014-03-11T13:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/341 "2014-03-25T19:27:05Z")
Not comfortable with your line of argument. People murdering people is a greater problem in society than false convictions for murder. Does this argue for making it easier to put away accused murderers? Couldn’t the same argument be made that the burden of proof for rape should also be lowered? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/342 "2014-03-25T19:32:23Z")
Here;s the other problem I have with the line of argument. It assumes that the views of whites don’t matter. Playing the race card in ways that most reasonable people would consider stupid will tend to alienate whites. Whites don’t like being accused of racism, so when some pundit says that opposition to Obama is based on racism, it tends to piss off whites who oppose Obama but don’t regard themselves as racist, which in turn makes them less likely to take such accusations seriously. Once white America doesn’t care about racism because they are inured to the complaints, who does that serve? I myself never get angry at the racist charges being flung around. It’s just something liberals do for temporary advantage, and I treat it with the seriousness that deserves. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/343 "2014-03-25T19:34:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Where have they gone so far? I can’t say I know where they went, but they are definitely shrinking in DC. Are they? The black population of DC in 2000 was 350K. In 2012, it was 315K. A loss of 35,000, which is equal to 5 percent of the present total population, which grew from 534k in 2000 to 633K in 2012. Most of the change is due to whites moving in, but blacks aren’t leaving in large numbers. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/344 "2014-03-25T19:36:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here;s the other problem I have with the line of argument. It assumes that the views of whites don’t matter. Playing the race card in ways that most reasonable people would consider stupid will tend to alienate whites. Whites don’t like being accused of racism, so when some pundit says that opposition to Obama is based on racism, it tends to piss off whites who oppose Obama but don’t regard themselves as racist, which in turn makes them less likely to take such accusations seriously. Once white America doesn’t care about racism because they are inured to the complaints, who does that serve? Exactly. > [@](#): > > I myself never get angry at the racist charges being flung around. It’s just something liberals do for temporary advantage, and I treat it with the seriousness that deserves. That’s because they don’t hurt you or your side of the aisle. I’m a Democrat, and both political and shame reasons make them frustrating to me. What you should be worried about it is the very REAL racism, or just plain stupidity, on your side. Overall, I’m still happy I’m over here. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/345 "2014-03-25T19:40:41Z")
They hurt both sides: they make minorities dislike Republicans, and they make whites dislike Democrats. The white vote will probably continue to go more and more Republican as time goes on, unless Democrats start trying to win them back again. They seem to have given up on white voters. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/346 "2014-03-25T19:48:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure, it would suck, if it was public and broadcast (assuming I’m a public figure). Still not that big a deal, because if it’s a false accusation I’d get past it. Getting accused of racism on the internet? Barely registers. But that’s not a good comparison. If someone used your real name and said it in your community, you’d be mad. You know you would. > [@](#): > > Compared to rape, false accusations of rape are no big deal. Sure, it would suck big time to get falsely accused of rape – but if I didn’t do it, then it’s extremely likely that I’d clear my name (hell, with the bias against rape accusers in today’s justice system, even if I did it I’d have a decent chance of clearing my name). See, now you’re just not even trying. You’re saying being tried for rape when you’re innocent is “no big deal.” Come on. And it’s not just about a trial - it’s someone calling you a rapist. You’d just shrug that off? > [@](#): > > Sure, they hurt, but not nearly as much (tiny, tiny fraction!) as real racism and rape. I’m actually glad you brought up the comparison to rape – I was thinking about how they really have a lot in common. You’re the one who decided to compare racism with false accuations of racism. Nobody said they were the same. But that doesn’t mean false accusations are “no big deal.” It’s not a relative thing. > [@](#): > > No, that would suck, but it’s a lot less common then getting fired for racist reasons. My concern over this problem is teeny-tiny compared to my concern for the problem of racism, because the damage to people and to society is teeny-tiny in comparison. And that’s the problem - you think the two should be compared. Why can’t you simply be outraged by both? And do you not see how being accused of doing something you think is awful when others do it is a big deal? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/347 "2014-03-25T19:50:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not comfortable with your line of argument. People murdering people is a greater problem in society than false convictions for murder. Does this argue for making it easier to put away accused murderers? Couldn’t the same argument be made that the burden of proof for rape should also be lowered? Yes, why they have to be compared is beyond me. False accusations are wrong, regardless of whether true accusations are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/348 "2014-03-25T20:11:56Z")
BTW, Ryan also said this: **Everybody’s got to get involved. So, this is what we talk about when we talk about civil society. If you’re driving from the suburb to the sports arena downtown by these blighted neighborhoods, you can’t just say: I’m paying my taxes, government’s going to fix that. You need to get involved. You need to get involved yourself — whether through a good mentor program or some religious charity, whatever it is, to make a difference, and that’s how we help resuscitate our culture.** I think the worst you can say about Ryan is that he shouldn’t have said what he said because it was insensitive and is a sore subject. He’s certainly not coming from a place of hate here. The thing that does piss me off a little about liberals’ reaction to it is that they want Republicans to reach out to African-Americans, or so they say. But apparently they are supposed to know all the “rules” first and must walk on eggshells when they speak. I think it was Eric Holder who said that Americans are cowards when talking about race. Well, this is why. Talking about race is like reciting the dialectic. If you get it wrong, you are subject to condemnation for your peers for having the wrong views. If liberals sincerely want Americans to be courageous when talking about race, they need to show a little tolerance themselves for views that may be wrong, but not hateful. If liberals just laughed at this stuff, it would be one thing. But their anger makes me wonder if they feel threatened by Republicans actually trying to reach out to African-Americans. The way things are right now, REpublicans would dominate elections just by winning 20% of the African-American vote. Democrats need African-Americans to nearly uniformly oppose Republicans, and I think it demonstrates desperation when they leap to attack anyone who actually tries but doesn’t know the proper ground rules because they are new at this. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/349 "2014-03-25T20:18:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The thing that does piss me off a little about liberals’ reaction to it is that they want Republicans to reach out to African-Americans, or so they say. But apparently they are supposed to know all the “rules” first and must walk on eggshells when they speak. I think it was Eric Holder who said that Americans are cowards when talking about race. Well, this is why. Talking about race is like reciting the dialectic. If you get it wrong, you are subject to condemnation for your peers for having the wrong views. If liberals sincerely want Americans to be courageous when talking about race, they need to show a little tolerance themselves for views that may be wrong, but not hateful. Again, well put. The reaction of many whites to this situation is to avoid any serious discussions or contact with blacks that could lead to any sort of mistake. How is that progress? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/350 "2014-03-25T20:37:00Z")
Funny thing is, I wonder if there’s an issue here with prominent African-Americans and some white liberals trying to be gatekeepers here. When a non-liberal speaks to a black audience and is clearly not comfortable and says some of the wrong things, black audiences are generally quite tolerant and receptive. I remember when Ross Perot spoke before the NAACP, he did about everything wrong, but they still seemed to appreciate that he came to speak. And here’s the funniest part: Ross Perot won 7% of the black vote, which seems pretty bad until you realize that he only won 19% of the overall vote. In terms of the makeup of Perot’s electorate, his 1992 coalition was far more diverse than Bush’s. Perot was a fairly conservative guy from Texas trying to reach out to minority voters and he’s never gotten the full credit for how well he succeeded despite being about as clumsy in talking about race as anyone alive. Ah yeah, cite: [http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how\_groups\_voted/voted\_92.html](http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_92.html) I also find it fascinating that Bush 41 kicked the crap out of Clinton with Asians. Since they are now the fastest growing ethnic group in America, I tend to think courting the Asian vote better would pay huge dividends for the GOP. And the Asian vote is clearly winnable. Perot also won 14% of the gay vote, remarkable given his 19% of the overall vote. It means that gays were not much less likely to vote for Perot than anyone else. It shows that a conservative candidate can win with any ethnic group, if not held back by the baggage of the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/351 "2014-03-25T20:40:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, DC could be all male rednecks and they’d vote Democrat, because the Democrats are all about taking the rest of the country’s wealth and transferring it to DC. As opposed to the Republicans, who want to transfer it all to the Caymans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/352 "2014-03-25T20:42:40Z")
As opposed to the Republicans, who want states to keep most of their wealth. Hard to do when you expect 28% of the nation’s wealth to come to DC. Of course most of it goes back out, but DC sure gets to take a nice cut from the top first. Even during the recession, DC was getting richer while the rest of the nation was getting poorer. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/353 "2014-03-25T21:12:59Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But that’s not a good comparison. If someone used your real name and said it in your community, you’d be mad. You know you would. If they said I was racist? I might be annoyed, but it would be pretty minor. Seriously! If they have good evidence, I’d welcome a discussion. Maybe I would learn something. I don’t think I’m racist, but neither do most racists – maybe it would turn out that I had some bias that I did not know about. > [@](#): > > See, now you’re just not even trying. You’re saying being tried for rape when you’re innocent is “no big deal.” Come on. Compared to being raped? Absolutely, it’s no big deal. > [@](#): > > And it’s not just about a trial - it’s someone calling you a rapist. You’d just shrug that off? I’m sure it would suck (though, nothing compared to being raped). But I would just be honest. I’m sure I’d be nervous if there was a trial (though, for a trial, there would have to be some decent evidence). > [@](#): > > You’re the one who decided to compare racism with false accuations of racism. Nobody said they were the same. But that doesn’t mean false accusations are “no big deal.” It’s not a relative thing. Relatively, they certainly are “no big deal”. Can you even think of someone who, through false accusations of racism, suffered greatly? I cannot. Perhaps there is someone, somewhere, but I don’t know who. If you have someone, I’d love to hear about it. > [@](#): > > And that’s the problem - you think the two should be compared. > > Why can’t you simply be outraged by both? I’m upset by false accusations of any kind. It’s bad, and false accusers of crimes like rape should be prosecuted. False accusers of racism should be shamed. But I just haven’t seen a huge number of false accusations of racism that were malicious. False accusations through misunderstandings can even be positive, if greater mutual understanding is reached. > [@](#): > > And do you not see how being accused of doing something you think is awful when others do it is a big deal? It can be a big deal (though I’m not sure when – please enlighten me with some examples, if you have any), just not nearly as big a deal as being an actual victim of racism. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/354 "2014-03-25T21:14:06Z")
Given that people can lose everything by being accused of racism, it’s actually becoming a bigger deal than being a victim of racism. Racism is bad, but McCarthyism is worse, and we’re edging towards Mccarthyism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/355 "2014-03-25T21:19:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Given that people can lose everything by being accused of racism, it’s actually becoming a bigger deal than being a victim of racism. Racism is bad, but McCarthyism is worse, and we’re edging towards Mccarthyism. Who can lose everything? Who has lost _anything_ significant by being falsely accused of racism? Please educate me. Just name someone – I imagine there probably is someone, somewhere in history, but who are they? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/356 "2014-03-25T21:20:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Given that people can lose everything by being accused of racism, it’s actually becoming a bigger deal than being a victim of racism. Racism is bad, but McCarthyism is worse, and we’re edging towards Mccarthyism. If being accused of racism is damaging, imagine the devastation to those accused of McCarthyism. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/357 "2014-03-25T21:25:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who can lose everything? Who has lost _anything_ significant by being falsely accused of racism? Please educate me. Just name someone – I imagine there probably is someone, somewhere in history, but who are they? Al Campanis, Jimmy the Greek, Paula Deen, for starters. Howard Cosell very nearly lost his career, but he developed that “cred” Honesty spoke of over the years so got away with it, although I’m sure the stress didn’t help his health. Now I know you said “falsely”, but seriously, should racism basically put an end to your life and career? Rape doesn’t. Heck, child rape doesn’t. But say the wrong thing, and you’re done in polite society. For some reason this isn’t true of anti-semetism. Oliver Stone will continue to make films and have plenty of financial backing to make films, despite making provocative comments about Jews pretty frequently. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/358 "2014-03-25T21:57:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Al Campanis, Jimmy the Greek, Paula Deen, for starters. Howard Cosell very nearly lost his career, but he developed that “cred” Honesty spoke of over the years so got away with it, although I’m sure the stress didn’t help his health. > > Now I know you said “falsely”, but seriously, should racism basically put an end to your life and career? Rape doesn’t. Heck, child rape doesn’t. But say the wrong thing, and you’re done in polite society. > > For some reason this isn’t true of anti-semetism. Oliver Stone will continue to make films and have plenty of financial backing to make films, despite making provocative comments about Jews pretty frequently. Seriously, is this the best you can do? This is pathetic. None of those people were falsely accused of saying something racist. I weep little for the career setbacks of millionaires who said profoundly racist (and stupid) things. If you’re argument is that we shouldn’t accuse people who _actually say racist things_ of saying something racist, then that is just pitiful, and you can’t possibly be serious. I’ll ask again – can anyone name someone, in all of American history, who suffered greatly because they were _falsely_ accused of racism? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/359 "2014-03-25T22:06:58Z")
I can name a lot of people whose career was unaffected by being truly accused of rape, but whatever. Having naughty thoughts about people different from you is obviously the greatest crime there is. No wonder there’s a culture of fear around the subject. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/360 "2014-03-25T22:24:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I can name a lot of people whose career was unaffected by being truly accused of rape, but whatever. Having naughty thoughts about people different from you is obviously the greatest crime there is. No wonder there’s a culture of fear around the subject. God what a pathetic load of whining. A handful of millionaires say _really, really stupid_ things, suffer some minor career setbacks (but still continue to be very, very rich), and now this pathetic “obviously the greatest crime there is”? What a pitiful pile of tiny baby tears. I guess we all know the great danger of false accusations of racism now – **nothing at all**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423.md?page=19)