# Hope for the Republican Party of the future? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423 "2014-03-11T13:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/161 "2014-03-20T15:58:00Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But they did in 1964, and we’re discussing 1964. Whatever for? The parties have migrated significantly since then. But even if you obsess on 1964, you need to look at the vote in regional terms, not party terms. More Democrats than Republicans voted no, but only because the old Confederacy was dominated by Democrats. Times have changed, parties have changed. Why focus on 1964? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/162 "2014-03-20T16:15:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Whatever for? Because it was brought up. Review the thread. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/163 "2014-03-20T16:26:43Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Because it was brought up. Review the thread. So? It’s as relevant as Lincoln’s party affiliation is to modern politics. And generally quite misunderstood by those unwilling or unable to split the vote between north and south. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/164 "2014-03-20T16:28:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So? It’s as relevant as Lincoln’s party affiliation is to modern politics. And generally quite misunderstood by those unwilling or unable to split the vote between north and south. Yes, I’ve been saying about the same thing. Thanks for joining the thread. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/165 "2014-03-20T16:34:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Without LBJ, the bill doesn’t pass. There were some arms twisted. Sure, Southern Democrats filibustered the bill. But do southern Democrats represent racism any more? No. Are blacks capable of reasoning that the parties have migrated on racial issues since 1964? I sure think so. If the Democrats had reverted to supporting segregation and vote suppression after the bill passed, then the South would still be solid blue. It didn’t fucking happen. Robert Byrd had a change of heart and admitted that he had been wrong. So did George Wallace. Those that didn’t change their hearts changed their parties. Which is why Republicans embraced the Southern Strategy. False. Strom Thurmond was the only Senate party switcher and he changed. No governors changed. Basically, you’re supporting your argument with, “Democrats are racist, so those Democrats who stayed in the party(as in ,99% of them) apologized, no matter how late, and so therefore receive a dispensation. Republicans are evil, and any Democrat who switched is a traitor who obviously was motivated by racism.” Except guess who supported national MLK day before most southern Democrats? Strom Thurmond. Also, parties do not just switch positions. That would imply that one party was doing something stupid and the other doing something intelligent. The “republicans adopted the old Democratic position on race” argument is based on the idea that Republicans were smarter, but Democrats were just do darned motivated by goodness that they took losses to fight for equality. Or that they were fighting for a longterm success that none of them would live to see. Both ideas are naive and ignorant. Politicians don’t function that way. What actually happened is that Democrats saw which way the tide was turning after 1964, and adopted the Republican position on civil rights, thus neutralizing it as an issue. And it worked. Aside from Jim Crow, African-Americans were natural Democrats and started supporting Democrats even with Jim Crow. Without Jim Crow, there was no longer any reason for African-Americans to NOT support Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/166 "2014-03-20T16:40:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > False. Strom Thurmond was the only Senate party switcher and he changed. No governors changed. An aside - some Dems became independents rather than Republicans in that era. > [@](#): > > What actually happened is that Democrats saw which way the tide was turning after 1964, and adopted the Republican position on civil rights, thus neutralizing it as an issue. Well, that’s hardly all of it. The fact that millions of blacks were getting the vote in the South, and voting in the Democratic primaries, had alot to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/167 "2014-03-20T16:43:34Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yes, I’ve been saying about the same thing. Thanks for joining the thread. Actually, you rejected my north-south breakdown of the party vote. Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you. > [@adaher](#): > > False. Strom Thurmond was the only Senate party switcher and he changed. No governors changed. > > Basically, you’re supporting your argument with, “Democrats are racist, so those Democrats who stayed in the party(as in ,99% of them) apologized, no matter how late, and so therefore receive a dispensation. Republicans are evil, and any Democrat who switched is a traitor who obviously was motivated by racism.” > > Except guess who supported national MLK day before most southern Democrats? Strom Thurmond. The old racist policians didn’t all change parties, their replacements in their parties changed as well as the voters. Billy Joe Jimbob may have been a Democratic US rep in 1963, but by 1973 his district was represented by Republican Joebob Cooter. Did all the D’s switch party affiliations en masse in 1964? No. But anyone who followed them was of the other party. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/168 "2014-03-20T16:54:31Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > An aside - some Dems became independents rather than Republicans in that era. There were a lot of party switchers, they were just lower offices, or voters. Nearly all Democratic House members, Senators, and governors stayed with the Democrats, and remained Democrats in good standing despite abandoning their segregationist views well after 1964. It’s fair to say that Republicans capitalized on white anxiety to win the South. It is not fair to say that the parties just switched on civil rights issues. The Republicans never conceded anything to southern voters on the issues they fought for over the previous decades. Instead, they emphasized points of agreement with southerners, such as law and order, welfare, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/169 "2014-03-20T16:57:56Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Before the 1960s, most blacks who voted were in the North and West, and they typically voted Republican. Blacks in the South mostly couldn’t vote at all. They _still_ couldn’t vote in 1964. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/170 "2014-03-20T16:59:07Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Actually, you rejected my north-south breakdown of the party vote. Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you. No I didn’t, I explained why it didn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/171 "2014-03-20T16:59:33Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The old racist policians didn’t all change parties, their replacements in their parties changed as well as the voters. Billy Joe Jimbob may have been a Democratic US rep in 1963, but by 1973 his district was represented by Republican Joebob Cooter. Did all the D’s switch party affiliations en masse in 1964? No. But anyone who followed them was of the other party. The South became more Republican, although that process was actually pretty slow and arguably never completed. 1988 and 2004 were the only non-landslide elections where the South went solid for the GOP(I’m not counting 1972 and 1984 because the Republicans won virtually all the states, so the fact they won the South doesn’t tell us anything). If you’re just saying that the Democrats lost the Solid South because of civil rights, and that Republicans capitalized, not always using pure as driven snow means, then sure, I’ll agree with that. But the idea that they switched positions is a myth, and one that doesn’t even make sense. Parties do not just switch positions with each other, especially on something they feel so strongly about. That would be like Republicans suddenly going pro-choice and Democrats going pro-life. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/172 "2014-03-20T17:00:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They _still_ couldn’t vote in 1964. I didn’t say they could. As I’ve explained, this process happened over several decades. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/173 "2014-03-20T17:02:11Z")
1964 was the point when the black vote began going to Democrats en masse. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/174 "2014-03-20T17:02:26Z")
A hint about how well [repealing Obamacare](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/19/scott-brown-obamacare_n_4995671.html?utm_hp_ref=politics)will work for the Republicans, even Scott Brown: > [@](#): > > Brown found that out on Saturday, when he stopped by the home of Herb Richardson, a Republican state representative. Sitting in Richardson’s home, Brown called Obamacare a “monstrosity” that members of Congress didn’t even bother to read before they passed. At that point, according to the Coos County Democrat, Richardson chimed in to explain that the law had been a “financial lifesaver” for him and his wife. From the the piece (page 14): > > > [@](#): > > > > Richardson was injured on the job and was forced to live on his workers’ comp payments for an extended period of time, which ultimately cost the couple their house on Williams Street. The couple had to pay $1,100 a month if they wanted to maintain their health insurance coverage under the federal COBRA law. > > > > Richardson said he only received some $2,000 a month in workers’ comp. payments, however, leaving little for them to live on. > > > > “Thank God for Obamacare!” his wife exclaimed. > > > > Now, thanks to the subsidy for which they qualify, the Richardsons only pay $136 a month for health insurance that covers them both. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/175 "2014-03-20T17:04:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 1964 was the point when the black vote began going to Democrats en masse. But the Democrats first won the black vote in 1933. 90% is certainly better than 60%, but both are winning. Maybe someday Latinos will go 90% for Democrats, but that does not mean that Latinos aren’t overwhelmingly Democratic today despite “only” giving Democrats 65% of the vote or so. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/176 "2014-03-20T17:05:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A hint about how well [repealing Obamacare](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/19/scott-brown-obamacare_n_4995671.html?utm_hp_ref=politics)will work for the Republicans, even Scott Brown: It all depends on how many helped vs. how many hurt. Or how many pissed at the idea that they are expected to buy insurance. 9 out of 10 uninsured have not signed up. Are they angry about the government’s presumption? We’ll find out. We already know how the people with cancelled policies will vote. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/177 "2014-03-20T17:08:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you’re just saying that the Democrats lost the Solid South because of civil rights, and that Republicans capitalized, not always using pure as driven snow means, then sure, I’ll agree with that. But the idea that they switched positions is a myth, and one that doesn’t even make sense. Parties do not just switch positions with each other, especially on something they feel so strongly about. That would be like Republicans suddenly going pro-choice and Democrats going pro-life. I’d say it’s more accurate that Democrats gradually stopped tolerating racists in their ranks of candidates and Republicans gradually started to welcome racist voters by using code words (States Rights!) dog whistles and little winks and nods like appearances at Bob Jones University to tell the angry whites “See, we’re on your side” The Republican candidates weren’t nearly all or mostly all racists, they just actively began to court their vote. By the Nixon era, the transistion was more or less complete. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/178 "2014-03-20T17:13:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 1964 was the point when the black vote began going to Democrats en masse. No, not quite. The trend really started in 1948. And, as I explained, correlation not being causation, a large part of the black Democratic vote around that time came from new black voters in the South who voted in the Democratic primaries because that was the de facto election at the time. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/179 "2014-03-20T17:14:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’d say it’s more accurate that Democrats gradually stopped tolerating racists in their ranks of candidates and Republicans gradually started to welcome racist voters by using code words (States Rights!) dog whistles and little winks and nods like appearances at Bob Jones University to tell the angry whites “See, we’re on your side” The Republican candidates weren’t nearly all or mostly all racists, they just actively began to court their vote. By the Nixon era, the transistion was more or less complete. But why? If racism was a winning strategy, so much so that Republicans adopted it, why did Democrats give it up in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-for-the-republican-party-of-the-future/683423/180 "2014-03-20T17:19:02Z")
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