# Hope springs eternal... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2001, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141 "2001-05-11T23:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/21 "2001-05-12T07:34:39Z")
Hmmm, I almost just said fuck it and was going to ask a mod to close it altogether, but then I read the title, and figured nah - the good news in the OP still stands, so why let the wet blankets spoil my party? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/22 "2001-05-12T07:36:23Z")
Esprix, Was it something I said because that was not my intent at all…I really want to see you happy and content in a relationship with the person of your dreams. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/23 "2001-05-12T07:37:54Z")
What, just as long as I’m not “too gay” about it? Yes, it was your fault. Fortunately, I’m getting past it now. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/24 "2001-05-12T07:43:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nacho4Sara \* > \*\*I want a lollipop too! > > Seriously, three of my bestest buddies in the world are gay men, and they love it when people ask. I’ve done it before - my friend liked a guy and we weren’t sure if he was gay or not. She kept trying to hint around the subject, but I said, “Hey Ben? Are you gay?” which led to a long discussion, which led to me dating him a month or so. (Surprise - he wasn’t gay at all, he was just very passionate about Broadway musicals and Bette Midler). > > A few times, people have asked me if I was a lesbian. I think it has to do with my chronically single status in the past year or my fabulous sense of style, but I really don’t mind. “Nope, I like dick, but I never rule anyone out,” usually works nicely. 😃 > > \*\* Here’s your lolly. Bon appetit. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/25 "2001-05-12T07:44:56Z")
Damnit. I should hope you know Esprix that I mean no malice by my post, I just want to shed some light from another perspective. I want you to see that many of us have grown to care for you and only want to see you grow and have the person in your life that makes your toes tingle. Damnit if I fucked that up I am sorry…please accept my apologies but at the same time I want you to know that not all your gay discussions warrant being in the Pit. This was one that coulda been over in MPSIMS, in my opinion. Look Esprix, you are a sweet man, a lot to offer I just wish the world were more tolerant of homosexuals, but it will probably take your lifetime to fix that. I can’t stress enough that most of us on the SD are tolerant of homosexuality. Most but not all. But hey my friend, I am sorry if I made you feel bad that was not my intention at all. Please, accept apologies from me, I am sorry if I struck a cord from you. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/26 "2001-05-12T07:49:14Z")
If I respond to this now, I will regret it. Really. So I’m not going to. Not now. Nope, nope, nope… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/27 "2001-05-12T07:59:07Z")
Esprix, If it’s that much of a problem please email me…if I am the one that is creating problems here (duh obvious) I swear to you that my intentions are on the up and up and I do think highly of you. But if you have the need to respond send me email because if I said something to offend you, then please confront me with it. I need to know what I said that was damaging, apparently I said something that you didn’t agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/28 "2001-05-12T08:01:59Z")
Oh, you’ll get an e-mail, but I intend to respond in public, as you decided to say it in public in the first place. You don’t think I’m just going to let this lie, do you? Tut tut… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/29 "2001-05-12T08:10:23Z")
\< waiting patiently for email \> Seriously Esprix, I thought I said the right things in the right time…with the right way to say them, not biting, just honest. God, sometimes I wish I was invisable to the internet world and didn’t respond to things I see. But I will wait and hope that Esprix knows I am true and honest. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/30 "2001-05-12T11:48:18Z")
Come on, **Esprix**. Just let it go. Consider the time of the postings, and the effort to try and explain. A person who had ill will towards you of any kind would not be trying so hard to better explain that “meant no malice”. I know you don’t like being lectured to or criticized in any manner. But damn it…this does not warrant a flame back. TC gave an opinion, clarified it, re-clarified it, and finally is apologizing and wishes she had just gone to bed rather than stayed up and posted late. I for one know what she _intended_ to say. I know it’s not your responsibility to judge intent. It’s hard to judge intent from e-text - am am terrible about this, and have flamed people who meant me no ill will at all (like **ultress** ) because I did not understand - and felt terrible for it. In her own way, she was just saying some of the same things she has said to me in the past. She means that wants some _good news_ from you. She wants to see a thread where you post “Everything’s good in the World and I am so goddman happy I need plastic surgery to remove the smile from my face.” She wants you to not always be on a soapbox, and instead be running through fields of flowers with some Chippendales guys (and who knew they were _all_ gay? 😃 ) She said she “fucked up and is sorry”. Is there _any_ apology from her that you will accept, so you can walk away from this thread, no more fighting and squabbling, and just have a happy Saturday in the sun? Can you wordsmith it yourself and send it via e-mail, so it can be posted by her? Or _must_ you flame her back over this? ---
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/31 "2001-05-12T15:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > the more tolerant you become with people that aren’t tolerant of your sexual preference, the more you spread the word of love and caring for people no matter. Isn’t that exactly what he was doing with **PharmBoy** in this thread? Perhaps that’s why **Esprix** is pissed. I know I would be irritated if I were told to behave exactly how I had behaved a few posts ago. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/32 "2001-05-12T16:09:17Z")
Okay, kiddies … this looks to be another one that’s going to end up being more about personalities than issues. If there’s an issue here to discuss, have at it, but if this is going to be a personal bitch-fest, I’ll be closing it post-haste. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/33 "2001-05-12T16:18:26Z")
Look, the man’s moved to California and it’s _all_ outdoor cooking there, right? Esprix, could you leave it there? techchick68 is plainly embarrassed about the unfortunate and inappropriate second half of her first post. Everyone can see it (the post, its inappropriateness and her embarrassment). I don’t think we need to see any more. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Redboss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@Redboss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redboss)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/34 "2001-05-12T16:54:56Z")
Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/35 "2001-05-12T17:18:22Z")
Issues? Isin’t that exactly what this thread evolved into from nothing in it?🙂 Where is our personal bitch fest forum? **Techchick68** , you claim you don’t care yet you seem to care an awful lot by what you say in your post. Esprix does not rant about being gay almost at all. You seem to think he does, but its just not there. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/36 "2001-05-12T20:48:02Z")
Perhaps this does warrant its own, _true_ Pit thread, at that. After all, it has little to do with the fun, neat, positive, uplifting thing that happened in the OP as described (at least it was to me). Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/37 "2001-05-12T21:52:59Z")
I think what Techchick posted deserves a response, but perhaps not a flame. She did apologize, and apparently genuinely doesn’t see why her first post was so bone-headed. What’s necessary here is a gentle correction. Explain to her, as nicely as possible, exactly why her post was insulting. If you don’t, she’s only going to do it again. On the other hand, if you’d rather just slap her around, I’m cool with that approach too. Just give me a minute to make some popcorn before you start. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/38 "2001-05-13T01:45:52Z")
OK, let’s see what I can do. Poor Esprix doesn’t sound like he’s in any condition to respond to this without losing his temper, and Techchick deserves to know why he’s upset and just what she’s apologizing for. The whole problem here is just the wrong forum thing, I think. If Esprix hadn’t accidentally posted this in the Pit, or if it had been moved before Techchick saw it, there probably wouldn’t have been any problem. If I’m reading this the right way, it seems to me that Tech thought Esprix was putting it in the Pit because it was gay-related. Pit + gay-related = the impression that Esprix continues to be angst/rage-ridden about his queerness. Tech objects to this, ineptly. She says “Get off the Gay Guy rants.” She’s emphasizing the rants; everyone else hears her emphasizing “Gay Guy”, and thinks she’s being homophobic. Actually, she’s not; but she’s expressing herself poorly. Is that a reasonable interpretation of events? I don’t want to see this go the way two similar pairs of respected posters have already gone (mentioning no names), and I’d like to see this successfully defused. Perhaps moving this thread to MPSIMS, as it should have been in the first place - at least as a reminder to all involved to keep things civil - would be in order. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/39 "2001-05-13T02:17:06Z")
I don’t believe I’m doing this… I agree with matt, I think the problem in here was that this thread was put in the wrong forum. While I’ve read Esprix’s posts half-heartedly telling the mods to move this thread if they care to, we all know the procedure around here when we post in the wrong forum - email the mods and they’ll move it ASAP or close it, if the OP so requests. Euty, I really think this one should be taken to email or the thread closed, because what I’m reading doesn’t sound anything like what either the Techie or the Esprix I’ve come to know through these boards intended to say. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/40 "2001-05-13T02:29:10Z")
My intentions were never mean. I felt that this revelation of his warranted being in MPSIMS. I stated as such and apparently I offended, never meaning that. I stated over in Una’s board that I think that Esprix is the Bees Knees. Esprix is pretty damn cool, sweet, awesome, etc. I will admit the problem I have is that Esprix writes a few posts a month about the trials and tribulations of being gay and this time I spoke up about it. This in its self is not a crime but I do worry that Esprix is not focusing on his happiness and rather his unhappiness in a world that still has a very difficult time with homosexual people. I dig Esprix, but I wish he would grasp that and do his best to make something positive happen. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be homosexual and DAMN I have a hard enough time finding men for myself so from that perspective I can relate. The small problem I have is that he rants about people in his life who can’t understand him being gay. I wish that Esprix would learn that not all the world feels this way, **we** accept him for what he is and wish the best would happen. Again Esprix, I meant nothing mean and I do think you are a sweetheart. Please know that my words were not meant to be stinging but something to think about. We love you, we want you to be happy. Once again, if I offended you I am truly sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141.md?page=3)