# Hope springs eternal... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2001, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141 "2001-05-11T23:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/41 "2001-05-13T02:50:01Z")
I suspect that nothing I say will smooth over the process. For that I will kindly bow out of this thread and reiterate the fact that I think Esprix is a great guy with a lot to offer. I regretfully made some comments that seemed out of line, but I still don’t see it. I hope that Esprix can call me, as I gave him my number, and hopefully we can smooth things over. Esprix, you are a great guy with a lot to offer a mate. Know that your sexuality is okay with me. You are fun, and in MPSIMS I seem to see a smile with every post, that you are truly enjoying life but have some rough times… If nothing else, please consider calling me so you can hear that I am completely and utterly on your side. techchick aka Liz ---
**Author:** ![Scotticher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Scotticher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scotticher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/42 "2001-05-13T02:52:03Z")
Okay, now. Liz misspoke, Esprix took offense, Liz apologized. Is it too much to ask that we just let it go and move past this? Please…lets have a little, just a TINY bit of love and forgiveness in the pit? It could use it, REALLY it could. Scotti ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/43 "2001-05-13T07:32:30Z")
My response is forthcoming. Please stop second-guessing me and making wild assumptions until I get a chance to do so. Thank you ever so kindly. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mercutio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Mercutio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mercutio)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/44 "2001-05-13T08:15:40Z")
Doob’s gay? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/45 "2001-05-13T08:20:50Z")
Not getting tangled up in the _other_ issue … back to the OP. I think it’s great that this guy’s decided to be open and not one of the “whisperers” anymore, **Esprix**. I can understand how that would make you feel. Personally, if someone came up to l’il ol’ me, unmarried, female, 38 nearly, and asked, “Are you a lesbian?”, I’d look ‘em straight in the eye and say, “Nah. I’m a historian,” an’ walk away. Chuckling. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/46 "2001-05-13T09:23:34Z")
Although it is frightfully amusing to see you all place bets on how I feel, what I will say and what it all means (and I really, _really_ hate it when people do that to me), I suppose I ought to get around to responding. The fact that I have had the lovliest of days today, and had a chance to sleep on it (thanks to the many Moderators who have suggested this - it really does work), means that this will not nearly be as bad as y’all seem to think it’s going to be. I do, however, feel the need to respond, if for no other reason than many of you got quite a few things wrong. So, from the top, then: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **techchick68** _ > > WTF is this thread? You didn’t really have a bitch but once, twice, three times a month you have to complain about your gayness and the people around you but this one was actually a compliment as far as I can tell. I am unaware of the preponderance of times in the past month I’ve complained about being gay. On April 23 I posted my [“Aw, fuck”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68577) thread where I lamented not coming out to someone at work, and on April 4 I posted my [“Yeah, he’s gay - keep your comments to yourself, jackass”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=66350) thread about a perceived homophobic comment made to me, and both of these happened at my workplace. (I don’t think my [“Hello, I’m a person”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=67306) thread of April 12 counts as being a “gay rant,” as it had to do with my treatment as a temp, not as a gay man.) Do I really need to do another thread-by-thread post vivisection like I had to do when I was lovingly referred to as a [One Trick Pony](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=48746)? I assure you, even though you might only be _reading_ (or, more likely, _seeing all of my posts as_) my “gay posts,” I am posting to several other different threads on several other different topics. It’s not my fault you’re a selective reader. I posted this thread originally for two reasons - one, in response to those two negative happenstances at my workplace; and two, in direct response to the two currently running Great Debate threads, [“Can gays go straight? Science says yes”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70400) and [“Is being alcoholic a choice? If not, are drinking binges OK? (An Analogy)”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70520), which I have been actively involved in and are really getting on my every last nerve. In both cases, I posted it as a positive response for a change, hence the title, “Hope springs eternal.” So, yes, there were reasons - it wasn’t just me “being gay” again, I was looking for something related that was positive instead of negative. One would think good news would be welcomed for a change. > [@](#): > > Why not throw something like this in MPSIMS? A person actually confronted you, apparently in a nice way and without malice or hidden meanings from what you said…this is something that you should rejoice. A guy confronted you with, what you describe to be a decent exchange, but you put it in The Pit? Indeed, as I’ve already said, I wasn’t thinking when I posted it in here, and certainly, at least as far as the OP is concerned, it doesn’t belong in The Pit, but rather in MPSIMS. I rarely go into MPSIMS, and I must have had the Pit thread list up and just hit “new thread” without thinking. Again, if the mods want to move it, no arguments from me, and I apologize for the error, particularly since it seems to have ruffled so many feathers. > [@](#): > > Get off the “I’m the Gay Guy” thing and realize that not all will be accepting of you. Realize that there are a lot of people that can’t or wont look past what they were brought up around… Most of us on the SD are very tolerant of very differing lifestyles here. Yes, you’re absolutely right on both counts. However, the SDMB gives me a nice, anonymous, easy way to vent when it gets to me, and regardless of how well I accept the fact that people are intolerant, it still does indeed get to me from time to time, depending on my mood, what else is going on in my life, etc. If anything, contrarily I find people around me to be very accepting of who I am precisely because I live my life without excuse, so when, on rare occassion, I stumble into homophobia, either directed at me or directed at someone else, it surprises me, irks me, and I enjoy coming to a place where, indeed, I can “preach to the choir” and get some positive feedback, reassuring me that there are kind-hearted, open-minded people in the world who agree with me that the person who just revealed their homophobia to me is, indeed, a schmuck. So because everyone here is so accepting, and because there will always be people who aren’t, I should shut up about it? I should point out the obvious here as well - not everyone on the SDMB is tolerant, as evidenced by the two threads I linked above. Many long-time posters I regularly interact with are, yes - I certainly wouldn’t have stuck around this long if I didn’t feel welcome. But one of the reasons (as I will expound on more later) I come here is to fight the ignorance in the area I am most expert in. Let’s keep that in mind. > [@](#): > > … the point is, the more tolerant you become with people that aren’t tolerant of your sexual preference, the more you spread the word of love and caring for people no matter. As **Nacho4Sara** already pointed out, I believe I’ve shown at least a modicum of acceptance in this very thread. Could you please point out to me where I have shown intolerance where it wasn’t explicitly warranted? > [@](#): > > I love the fact you are gay, I celebrate it being you but I don’t like much that you have to have 2-3 rants a month about it. And here we get into the “you’re being too gay” part. Really, **tech** - you, of all people, an admitted bisexual, dishing this out to me? I am too appalled to even get into it, and, IMHO, you should be ashamed for saying it. But, really, the main reason I was so flabbergasted? All this: > [@](#): > > … we love you, we care for you and it’s time that you love yourself and find that man you want in your life, someone that makes you happy. It’s not about anything other than you finding the right man for you. > > I want to see a thread in MPSIMS that says: > > Esprix: > > “Found the man I will spend my life with” > > Rather than Pit threads that say: > > “I’m Gay okay and this happened to me today…” > > That’s what I would love to hear from you. > > … It’s time you get proactive and find a mate that you love and care for. Find someone that you can scream from the roof tops that you love and will never leave. Please my friend, stop focusing on those who point out your homosexuality or your lack of “girlfriends” etc… From what I know you are a very outgoing man with a lot to offer the right man. > > … I really want to see you happy and content in a relationship with the person of your dreams. Really. > > … I want you to see that many of us have grown to care for you and only want to see you grow and have the person in your life that makes your toes tingle. What the high holy fuck is all that bullshit about? True happiness is found in a relationship? I’m unhappy because I’m single? Worse, I’m dwelling on homophobic issues because I’m single? It’s all about finding a man? Honey, what kind of drugs are you on? If you have self-worth issues, please don’t assume the rest of us do - I am quite, quite happy being single, and would be equally happy if I were in a relationship. If “good news” is only “I’m seeing someone,” then I really do pity for you, 'cause that’s just pathetic. If you can’t be happy in your own skin, ya gots issues. Do I want to get married and settle down with someone someday? Sure I do. But until then, am I going to be miserable? Hell no. Besides, who’s to say I will? Maybe I’ll never meet that one compatible person (or, for that matter, persons - nothing wrong with polyamory in my book), so does that mean I’ll never have any “good news” to post here? Fuck that! You posted it so many times that it really, really bugged me that your definition of my happiness would be to be in love with someone, and the fact that it came from someone who freely admits having trouble “finding a man” and who feels she’s treated differently because she, too, is single just really, really rubs me wrong - Physician, heal thyself. Furthermore, just because I don’t post it here doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. My One True Love is still out there, and we maintain a friendship; Dr. Boyfriend and I are on the mend friendship-wise; and there’s someone else I’ve been seeing quite a bit of since I moved to San Diego. So why haven’t I posted it? Because I’ve seen, painfully and first-hand, what happens when you submit a thread - _people respond_, and not always in a good way (I think we could even use this thread - a positive OP turned horribly, horribly wrong - as an example). So when I choose to, I may share some of that with y’all, but just because I don’t doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I’m sure many people will be surprised to hear I actually do have a life outside of this board - just today I made progress painting my new bedroom, I had coffee with friends, dinner with this new squeeze, and spent some time with other friends on the beach before coming home to this debacle. Imagine! I’m here Monday through Friday, 9-5 PST because that’s when I have time on my hands with nothing else to do. > [@](#): > > I will admit the problem I have is that Esprix writes a few posts a month about the trials and tribulations of being gay and this time I spoke up about it. For better or for worse, I am the **Gay Guy** around here. I’m proud of the (now four) “Ask the Gay Guy!” threads - I have them linked in my signature, for crying out loud. Obviously it’s an issue near and dear to my heart. So, yes, part of the reason I come here to the SDMB is to play that role. How would you react if someone said to you, “Change your name and stop flaunting your techie know-how?” This begs a further question - Do you really think that I am the exact same way in real life? Of course I’m more than the **Gay Guy** - I’m a friend, I’m a housemate, I’m a son, I’m a brother, I’m an uncle, I’m an employee… If I don’t assume you think about computers 24/7, please don’t assume I talk about gay issues all the time, either. On here, it’s one thing, but elsewhere? Please. So that’s it. Bottom line is I think I know what you were trying to say, but so much else was said at the same time that it rankled me. So you’ve said it, I’ve responded, you’ve apologized (at least, I’ll assume it’s still in effect, now that you know what you’re apologizing for, as t’were), and it’s accepted. I hold no ill will. But if it’s not too presumptuous of me to say, I think you have some things to think about. Esprix P.S. (Although I am loathe to do it, I do have a comment for **Anthracite** - I thought you stopped reading my posts? Every time I forget about our past, you make some snide comments to remind me you’re still holding a grudge. And these: > [@](#): > > I know you don’t like being lectured to or criticized in any manner… > > I know it’s not your responsibility to judge intent. It’s hard to judge intent from e-text - am am terrible about this, and have flamed people who meant me no ill will at all (like ultress) because I did not understand - and felt terrible for it. In her own way, she was just saying some of the same things she has said to me in the past. I find these two statements highly, highly ironic coming from you and directed at me.) ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/47 "2001-05-13T09:31:10Z")
You keep being yourself. Someone has to do it, and I’m glad your voice is out there. You are now elevated from One Trick Pony status to Official SDMB Gay Saint. You also recieve all of your princess points back from that time when you made the unfortunate declaration of your appreciation of country music. Gay Agenda International™ When it absolutely, positively has to be gay overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/48 "2001-05-13T09:41:11Z")
I… I don’t know what to say… Wait, shouldn’t I have a tiara, a bouquet of roses, and some old guy singing off-key while I walk down a runway with tears running down my face? Bitch! I want my spotlight! Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/49 "2001-05-13T11:00:34Z")
**Places tiara on Esprix’s head, puts cape on shoulders, cues spot light, and sends him down the runway.** Bert Parks: “There he is, the SDMB’s Gay Saint…” ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/50 "2001-05-13T12:59:07Z")
Somehow, you just could not walk away from this one. No matter how people tried to put out that fuse, once it is lit it invariably turns into…well, the above long-ass post. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*P.S. (Although I am loathe to do it, I do have a comment for **Anthracite** - I thought you stopped reading my posts? Every time I forget about our past, you make some snide comments to remind me you’re still holding a grudge. And these: > > > [@](#): > > > > I know you don’t like being lectured to or criticized in any manner… > > > > I know it’s not your responsibility to judge intent. It’s hard to judge intent from e-text - (corrected)I(/corrected) am terrible about this, and have flamed people who meant me no ill will at all (like ultress) because I did not understand - and felt terrible for it. In her own way, she was just saying some of the same things she has said to me in the past. > > I find these two statements highly, highly ironic coming from you and directed at me.) \*\* Perhaps you need to be a little more loathe to do some things. Well, I don’t understand your comment, but I’m sure you will soon have a multi-page post to explain to poor, stupid, “bitchy Anthracite” (does that quote look familiar?). All I was trying to point out was the lateness of when the post by TC was made (hint-hint) and that she was not explaining herself well at all, and that I felt personally that I knew what she meant and it was not what she wrote, and that you didn’t need to flame back. Perhaps you ignored that part of my post and focused on another part. Like Captain Planet says, “the power is **yours!** ” to either cut this off now, or to continue to fight over something that is so pathetically stupid. Or, if you don’t respond, I’ll be happy to go my own way again. And I do read your posts, because you are often witty and funny. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/51 "2001-05-13T21:29:57Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Anthracite** _ > > Like Captain Planet says, “the power is **yours!** ” to either cut this off now, or to continue to fight over something that is so pathetically stupid. There’s no fight at all, as far as I can tell. > [@](#): > > And I do read your posts, because you are often witty and funny. Thank you, that was very kind of you to say. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/52 "2001-05-13T23:04:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > [B > > > [@](#): > > > > And I do read your posts, because you are often witty and funny. > > Thank you, that was very kind of you to say. > > Esprix \*\* Kind, truth, whatever. You seem like you would make a fantastic IRL friend to have. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2001, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/53 "2001-05-14T23:20:43Z")
I have corresponded with **techchick** via e-mail, and she confirmed that she will not be adding anything else to this discussion. Just in case anyone gets some ideas, I would humbly request that a moderator please lock this puppy up. Oh, and to the OP - it’s nice when something positive happens for a change, eh? Screw the **puddleglum** ’s and the **Zarathustra** ’s out there - decent people are everywhere, and most assuredly they abound here at the SDMB. 😃 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141/54 "2001-05-14T23:44:24Z")
Hey! Don’t lock it before I get to say: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > Gay Agenda International™ > When it absolutely, positively has to be gay overnight. \*\* Too funny! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hope-springs-eternal/65141.md?page=2)