# Horde of ancient (Roman & Celtic) coins found on Jersey - finders keepers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 26, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353 "2012-06-26T15:19:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/1 "2012-06-26T15:19:55Z")
[This article from the BBC](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-18579868) describes a recently found, huge horde of ancient coins. There are an estimated 50,000 coins each worth several hundred dollars. Their total worth is estimated to be around $10 million. Do the two people who found the treasure get to keep it? A percentage? I assume that they won’t have to relinquish all or most of it; otherwise I doubt they would have publicized their find in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/2 "2012-06-26T15:30:18Z")
All found property should be returned to its owner. Under British law, “treasure troves” which have no owner due to their extreme age, belong to the Crown. (IIRC) ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/3 "2012-06-26T15:33:54Z")
I don’t have an answer for you, but that is frigging cool. I wonder how someone could lose that kind of money back then. I guess maybe an attack? Someone buried the treasure before they fell? Interesting, I hope they find clues as to what might have happened. Also, That’s gotta be enough money to represent some sort of tax based funds right? Money to pay say a nearby Roman army, and not just some rich guy’s personal treasure, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/4 "2012-06-26T15:35:01Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > All found property should be returned to its owner. Under British law, “treasure troves” which have no owner due to their extreme age, belong to the Crown. (IIRC) Seriously? As in the Queen gets it? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/5 "2012-06-26T15:36:51Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > All found property should be returned to its owner. Under British law, “treasure troves” which have no owner due to their extreme age, belong to the Crown. (IIRC) A quick look through the references here back that up. I believe the land owner can sometimes be awarded a share but I can’t find a hard and fast rule on that or if its by value or number of coins. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/6 "2012-06-26T15:40:28Z")
I am unclear whether this is covered by UK Law (well, England & Wales Law to be precise) or whether this is covered by Jersey local law. If the former, then a find of this size and age is covered by the Treasure act (1996) which makes it a legal requirement to report items above a certain age and value within 14 days of discovery. From [here](http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_180802): > [@](#): > > Under the Treasure Act 1996, treasure found in England and Wales must be reported to the local coroner within 14 days of its discovery. > If you are not sure, you must report the find within 14 days of the day you realise it might be treasure. > The penalty for not reporting a find you believe to be treasure is up to three months imprisonment or a fine of up to £5,000. All finds classed as’ treasure’ automatically go to the British Museum - you can’t keep them - but the finder does receive a payment. The payment is split between the finder, the land owner and the land tenant (if there is one). The value is decided by something called the Treasure Valuation Committee, who I presume come from the British Museum. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/7 "2012-06-26T15:44:23Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Seriously? As in the Queen gets it? Well, ‘The Crown’ gets it, which basically means the state, and it disappears into the vaults of the British Museum as treasure is part of our collective heritage. But the finder does get a payment. But no, you can’t keep the coins in a box under the bed or flog them to a russian oligarch. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/8 "2012-06-26T15:46:35Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Seriously? As in the Queen gets it? In practice, museums buy it from the finder/landowner, or it gets returned to them. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/9 "2012-06-26T15:47:13Z")
This [rather confusing summary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_trove#United_Kingdom) indicates there’s a reward, based on market value. But does the reward go to the finder or the owner of the land? The article indicates the “ownership of the coins is unclear.” The site is being excavated–the finders notified archaeologists & are working with them. So maybe they’ll be able to get some clues on just who buried the stuff & why. Oh: The word is **hoard**! ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/10 "2012-06-26T15:47:29Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > All found property should be returned to its owner. Under British law, “treasure troves” which have no owner due to their extreme age, belong to the Crown. (IIRC) Jersey’s not actually part of the UK though. It’s a Crown Dependency and it has a different legal system. Not sure what the situation is there regarding treasure trove. ETA: need to get in quicker. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/11 "2012-06-26T15:53:03Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > In practice, museums buy it from the finder/landowner, or it gets returned to them. IF it _isn’t_ classed as ‘treasure’, which is items over 300 years old and made of at least 10% gold or silver. If it is, then it’s automatically off to the British Museum (unless Jersey law, as noted, covers treasure finds separately). ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/12 "2012-06-26T15:56:54Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Well, ‘The Crown’ gets it, which basically means the state, and it disappears into the vaults of the British Museum as treasure is part of our collective heritage. But the finder does get a payment. > > But no, you can’t keep the coins in a box under the bed or flog them to a russian oligarch. OK, makes sense, as long as the finder gets a fee, and I cna see how precious history like this is something people would want to remain in a museum and not up for auction on eBay. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/13 "2012-06-26T15:57:20Z")
I found [this article](http://www.ncmd.co.uk/law.html#JERSEY) on Jersey treasure finds, which seems to say there isn’t a ‘treasure’ law as such, but there may be other Customs laws designed to protect items of historic interest should you try to take them off the island: ( > [@](#): > > 1). Parks and Common Land areas are subject to policing, these are no-go-areas. > > (2). SSI - Sights of Special Interest, cover all historic sites and buildings in jersey, these are no-go-areas, “with one exception as below” (a). > > (a). However, one Extended Beach Area, starting from La Collette in St. Helier, East Coast going around Northward through to Greve D’Azette, Green Island, Le Hocq, La Rocque, and into the bay of Grouville upto Gorey Harbour, allows you to beach detect and recover finds in these areas, but keep in mind the sites marine environment, this is why it has an SSI placed on it. > > (3). Metals of Gold/Silver, rings or the like with person/persons loss incurred, requires the finder to take the item into our police station, at Rouge Bouillon in St Helier ; where details would be taken and if the item is not claimed, it becomes either crown property, or returned to the finder in time. > > (4). Lastly, Jersey has a Custom & Excise Law, policing objects of historic interest, and are restricted from going out of the island, without a license… > So if you recover a find or finds that have a date of 50 years or more, you need a Custom Licence No. 108, to be granted export for the find after the find/object has been assessed by our Jersey Heritage Trust, at La Houge Bie Museum to determine its context for recording, and for the islands history the museum might, buy the find. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/14 "2012-06-26T16:18:29Z")
As I understand it, the payment for treasure goes to the finder, not the landowner, as long as he was on the land for a legitimate purpose. The particular case I’m remembering was someone hired to plow a field, and who found the stuff in the process of plowing. But you couldn’t just sneak onto your neighbor’s land at night and start digging. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/15 "2012-06-26T16:29:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As I understand it, the payment for treasure goes to the finder, not the landowner, as long as he was on the land for a legitimate purpose. The particular case I’m remembering was someone hired to plow a field, and who found the stuff in the process of plowing. But you couldn’t just sneak onto your neighbor’s land at night and start digging. That’s going to depend on your jurisdiction. It isn’t the case in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/16 "2012-06-26T16:32:00Z")
Sucks to be a treasure hunter in England… find a treasure 🙂 but then have to give it to away ☹ :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/17 "2012-06-26T17:21:28Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Sucks to be a treasure hunter in England… find a treasure 🙂 but then have to give it to away ☹ > > :smack: Not really, because you get to sell it for a reasonable market price _and_ know that it’ll be properly conserved. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/18 "2012-06-26T18:00:12Z")
Most places have similar laws about old treasure ships found off the coast. Places like Italy, Greece or Egypt have even stricter antiquities laws about dug up artifacts, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/19 "2012-06-26T18:04:40Z")
Shouldn’t the Roman stuff go back to Italy? If Spain gets to get its abandoned gold back, why not Italy? ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353/20 "2012-06-26T18:22:42Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Shouldn’t the Roman stuff go back to Italy? If Spain gets to get its abandoned gold back, why not Italy? The current incarnation of Spain is considered to be the [successor state](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_of_states) to the Spanish Empire of the 16th-19th centuries. By contrast, it’s not clear what the successor state to Ancient Rome currently is, or if there even is one. We did [a thread on the successor state to Ancient Rome](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=641747) a few months back. The strongest claim to being Rome’s successor state is probably Turkey’s (Roman Empire =\> Byzantine Empire =\> Ottoman Empire =\> modern Turkey), but even then it’s pretty tenuous. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horde-of-ancient-roman-celtic-coins-found-on-jersey-finders-keepers/626353.md?page=2)