# Horns are growing on young people's skulls? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807 "2019-06-20T14:46:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/1 "2019-06-20T14:46:44Z")
A study done by a couple of PhDs in Austrialia is getting a lot of media interest recently, here’s a write up in the [Washington post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/20/horns-are-growing-young-peoples-skulls-phone-use-is-blame-research-suggests/?utm_term=.f47dd8b07ccf), and it’s also been added to our “Cell phones will make everyone a hunchback”-thread. I’m perhaps being overly skeptical and prejudiced when I note that the first author is a chiropractor and fresh PhD in biomechanics and that their top reference for the patterns they identify being new and unusual being a paper from **1875**. But I haven’t found it analysed by any real experts in x-rays and skull anatomy yet. Is it actually a bad paper, or am I being prejudiced? ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/2 "2019-06-20T14:56:04Z")
Whooosh. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/3 "2019-06-20T16:26:49Z")
Were there any cites from Trofim Lysenko? Cell phone use might cause physical changes in the user. But they won’t alter their genes. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/4 "2019-06-20T16:39:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Were there any cites from Trofim Lysenko? > > Cell phone use might cause physical changes in the user. But they won’t alter their genes. No one is arguing that it is genetic. From the article: > [@](#): > > bone spurs caused by the forward tilt of the head, which shifts weight from the spine to the muscles at the back of the head, causing bone growth in the connecting tendons and ligaments. The weight transfer that causes the buildup can be compared to the way the skin thickens into a callus as a response to pressure or abrasion. Its possible, but for now its only one paper. I’d wait to see if anyone else confirms it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/5 "2019-06-20T16:41:33Z")
It’s certainly possible for osteophytes to develop based on changes in posture. This is degenerative joint disease, though, not “horn growth.” ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/6 "2019-06-20T16:47:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Were there any cites from Trofim Lysenko? > > Cell phone use might cause physical changes in the user. But they won’t alter their genes. I’m not a osteologist, so to me it seems at least plausible that changes in how we use our bodies can change small details. Bones grow denser with physical exertion for instance, no genetic changes required. And bone spurs forming is a real thing, even if it’s not established that it happens at the back of the skull. (No political commentary intended or solicited.) And tendons and the points where they connect to the skeleton do change based on use. What I’d like to know is if what they are seeing on these x-rays is: [ul] [li]There at all. Inexpert analysis could make up stuff.[/li][li]Is there, but is normal variation, because no one has bothered to do a survey like this before, and is cartilage.[/li][li]Is there, but is normal variation, because no one has bothered to do a survey like this before, and is actual bone.[/li][li]Is there, and correlates with staring down into your phone, but is actually cartilage.[/li][li]Is there, and correlates with staring down into your phone, and is actual bone.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/7 "2019-06-20T17:00:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Were there any cites from Trofim Lysenko? > > Cell phone use might cause physical changes in the user. But they won’t alter their genes. The original article isn’t asserting genetic changes; it asserts that external occipital protuberances (bony growths at the base of the skull) are becoming much more common, and posits that this is because of people hunching over their phone all the time. The notion that the human body changes in response to the activities in which it engages is not at all controversial; osteologists have generated a considerable body of work on musculoskeletal markers that denote patterns of repeated behavior. For example, there’s been some research on linking Native American skeletal remains to the arrival of the horse on the Great Plains, on the (reasonably-well-accepted) theory that the leg and thigh bones in particular can indicate who spent a lot of time on horseback versus walking, while other researchers have looked at the remains recovered from the wreck of the _Mary Rose_ to attempt to identify which were sailors, which were archers, etc. Growing extra bone (hypertrophy) to provide extra support/attachment for the muscles is well-documented. Tipping the head forward all the time to look at your phone would tend to strengthen the muscles of the neck, and additional bone growth in the vicinity is plausible. Whether the article in question proves its case is a little murkier. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/8 "2019-06-20T22:28:54Z")
[This](https://medium.com/@johnhawks/are-millennials-really-growing-horns-from-using-their-phones-2b7bd6162938) looks to be a good write-up of the study’s big flaws. It concludes: > [@](#): > > This skull horn study simply doesn’t measure up. The basic data do not convince me that anything is being measured consistently. And the 2018 paper, which gave rise to today’s Washington Post story, has such a major error that Scientific Reports clearly should never have published it. Maybe this trait really is changing in Australia. It would be really cool if it’s true. But these studies don’t show that. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/9 "2019-06-21T13:22:41Z")
Presumably the same thing would be present in monks who spent decades hunched over copying out books. Or any of the countless cottage industry type jobs\* that kept peasants hunched over in their hovels. \*_I want to say making buttons, or pins? Can’t for the life of me remember a specific job._ ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/10 "2019-06-21T14:40:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Were there any cites from Trofim Lysenko? > > Cell phone use might cause physical changes in the user. But they won’t alter their genes. I’m not sure of the relevance to the paper, but you seem to be confusing germline genetic change with somatic change. The former doesn’t happen, at least not in the sense of the heritability of acquired characteristics that Lysenko claimed, Lamarckism. But mutation of the genes of somatic cells certainly does occur, causing cancer and other abnormal growth - and can be caused by radiation. I’m not suggesting that there’s any evidence for cell phone radiation having any effect, but in principle it could. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/11 "2019-06-21T16:42:00Z")
[quote=“naita, post:6, topic:835807”] What I’d like to know is if what they are seeing on these x-rays is: [li]There at all. Inexpert analysis could make up stuff.[/li][/QUOTE] Well, chiropractors are very very good at seeing things on x-rays that aren’t there (i.e. ‘‘subluxations’’). You owe this study author an apology. :mad: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/12 "2019-06-21T16:57:12Z")
Many flaws: > **[Debunked: The absurd story about smartphones causing kids to sprout horns](https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/06/debunked-the-absurd-story-about-smartphones-causing-kids-to-sprout-horns/)** > > Horns or not, the news coverage will make you want to ram your head into something. Not a random sample Not even asked about cell phone use Biased researcher etc Brian ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/13 "2019-06-21T20:00:17Z")
Doctor Posture biased? That’s unpossible! ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/14 "2019-06-22T08:46:20Z")
> [@yendis](#): > > Presumably the same thing would be present in monks who spent decades hunched over copying out books. Or any of the countless cottage industry type jobs\* that kept peasants hunched over in their hovels. > > \*_I want to say making buttons, or pins? Can’t for the life of me remember a specific job._ not ot mention proofreaders, book readers, accountants, etc ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horns-are-growing-on-young-peoples-skulls/835807/15 "2019-06-22T17:17:00Z")
My old anatomy professor used to claim that a large occipital protuberance was evidence of sexual promiscuity… …from nodding and saying “yes” all the time.