# Horrible crash in Santa Monica **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 17, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018 "2003-07-17T00:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/41 "2003-07-18T03:53:48Z")
A seven-month-old baby being treated for massive head injuries following this accident passed away this afternoon, upping the death total to 10. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/42 "2003-07-18T10:14:23Z")
I heard about it absent-mindedly on the radio which at the time sounded like some random freak accident, so it only caught my attention when they said, “The McClure Tunnel is closed.” Since I had to take a drive down to Santa Monica that night and the tunnel is RIGHT on the drive, I hurried home to get the full story. Lemme tell you, as bad as it sounded on the radio, I was _completely_ unprepared for what the TV showed. Good. Fucking. LORD. I think I just went numb, esp. after the earlier San Francisco crash which creeped me out (but couldn’t hold a candle to this one.) Ironically, it turned out the Tunnel wasn’t closed at all, indeed the traffic was much lighter than usual when I drove down to my class. I gave someone a ride home around 10pm, who just happened to live at 2nd & Broadway which was just 2-3 blocks away. Most of the disaster area was cordoned off but it wasn’t too hard to get around. I even took a morbid look down Arizona St. when I passed it on Ocean. Couldn’t see shit, but I did notice EVERY car on the road slow down to look as they drove by. Human nature, I guess. It didn’t really hit home, though, until I learned tonight that the daughter of Dennis Weaver (yes, the actor) was among the dead. But that’s okay…I needed a good cry. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/43 "2003-07-18T10:43:40Z")
Count me in the group that says EVERYBODY should get regular testing - _road_ testing, not just a few multiple-choice questions. ALL ages. Stop treating driving as if it’s a right - it’s _privalege_ and a _responsibility_. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/44 "2003-07-18T11:42:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*Question for those who call for testing of the elderly: Would you support recurrent testing for everybody? Most drivers are not involved in serious accidents – including old people. \*\* [CNN: How old is too old to drive?](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/17/older.drivers.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > Statistics from the Insurance Institute show that older drivers generally are as safe as other age groups until they reach 75, when they tend to have more accidents. > > Drivers 85 and older are about as likely to be involved in a fatal crash as those ages 16 to 19, but they’re more likely to die than others in car accidents because their bodies are frailer, the institute’s Ferguson said. And several states already have mandatory testing for seniors. I wish California did. (Btw, the LA Times has printed the names of most of the victims if you are concerned it may be someone you know. Check out [www.latimes.com](http://www.latimes.com)) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/45 "2003-07-18T11:48:35Z")
I get too much spam already, so I’m leary about “registering”. It’s extremely unlikely that I know anyone there, but is the list printed somewhere else? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/46 "2003-07-18T11:58:24Z")
Not sure but I can reprint the list here if you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/47 "2003-07-18T12:11:39Z")
I posted earlier that there were other explanations that didn’t necessarily have to do with age. (i.e., Anyone can freeze in a panic.) But this morning’s news reports that the driver has a history of accidents including backing into his garage (I think someone mentioned this earlier) and driving through a block wall (which I just heard about on the news). While I don’t think we should immediately point to age as being the cause of this kind of accident, I must now conclude that age was a factor in this one. As for recurrent testing, I think it’s a good idea for everyone. And I think that it should be more difficult to get a license in the first place. New drivers are often told, “This is a ‘license to learn.’” A “license to learn” might be a good thing to call a newly-printed private pilot’s license; but it takes a whole lot more training to get that than it does a car license. Car drivers should be trained to a higher standard than they are now, IMO. But policy makers will be hard pressed to make this a reality. Driving is seen as a right, and many places are not “non-driver friendly”. In fact, L.A. is pretty much “non-driver _hostile_”. A politician who pushes through such legislation might find his stay in office to be short. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/48 "2003-07-18T12:13:09Z")
**leander** : If others are interested, that might work. Either that, or you can e-mail me. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/49 "2003-07-18T12:20:19Z")
[From The L.A.Times](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-071703victims_lat,1,1878683.story?coll=la-home-headlines) (registration req’d). Authorities today released the names of seven of the nine people who were killed Wednesday when an 86-year-old man drove his car - possibly as fast as 60 m.p.h. --through the Santa Monica Farmers’ Market. Two victims, a women in her 40s and a man in his 50s, have either not been identified or their next of kin have not yet been notified. Those identified are: • Cindy Palacios Valladares, 3, Los Angeles • Molok Ghoulian, 62, Los Angeles • Diana Y. McCarthy, 41, Los Angeles • Kevin McCarthy, 50 (Diana’s husband), Los Angeles • Lynne Ann Weaver, 47, Woodland Hills • Gloria Olivera Gonzalez, 35, Venice • Movsha Hoffman, 78, Santa Monica More than 50 additional people were hospitalized, 15 of them with critical injuries, after George Russell Weller of Santa Monica sped for 2 1/2 blocks through a market renowned as one of the region’s culinary treasures. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/50 "2003-07-18T12:28:34Z")
Thanks, **leander**. Nobody I know; but my ex-g/f used to work at 2nd & Arizona. (No reason for her to be there that day.) I called a friend of mine yesterday just to say “Hi,” and chat. I left a message on her machine. She called me back later and said that she she heard bout the crash way back there in rural Tennessee. She said the nearly rang me at 05:30 (Pacific) just to make sure I wasn’t in Santa Monica on Wednesday. (I did go to Marnina del Rey, but not SMO.) “I was so glad you called! I’m glad you’re not dead!” “I’m glad you’re not dead.” _sniff_ That’s the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me! ---
**Author:** ![FairyDust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@FairyDust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyDust)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/51 "2003-07-18T14:46:50Z")
[A call for tougher rules Extra vigilance urged after auto tragedy in Santa Monica](http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/07/18/MN259658.DTL) The article linked here includes a list of states with special license requirements for older drivers, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/52 "2003-07-18T15:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*I get too much spam already, so I’m leary about “registering”. It’s extremely unlikely that I know anyone there, but is the list printed somewhere else? \*\* Get a free email account with Yahoo, Operamail, or Hotmail and use that acct. as “spam bait” for any site your register with, incl. [latimes.com](http://latimes.com). As for name/address/etc., I just make shit up. 😉 Or, check [http://www.nbc4.tv/](http://www.nbc4.tv/) for local news, it doesn’t require registration but the links don’t always work for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/53 "2003-07-18T15:56:36Z")
Direct link to list of victims (scroll down): [http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2341411/detail.html](http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2341411/detail.html) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/54 "2003-07-18T16:29:19Z")
This is why we should all renew at age 30. I would say Test every year untill age 20. Then test every 10 years untill age 60. Then test every 5 years till age 75. Then test every year. Of course if you get into accidents that may trigger a higher rate of testing. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/55 "2003-07-18T16:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*Thanks, **leander**. Nobody I know; but my ex-g/f used to work at 2nd & Arizona. (No reason for her to be there that day.) > > I called a friend of mine yesterday just to say “Hi,” and chat. I left a message on her machine. She called me back later and said that she she heard bout the crash way back there in rural Tennessee. She said the nearly rang me at 05:30 (Pacific) just to make sure I wasn’t in Santa Monica on Wednesday. (I did go to Marnina del Rey, but not SMO.) “I was so glad you called! I’m glad you’re not dead!” > > “I’m glad you’re not dead.” _sniff_ That’s the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me! \*\* No problem. And I’m glad you’re not, too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/56 "2003-07-18T17:02:27Z")
I’m still in shock over this whole situation. My prayers and heart goes out to everyone effected by this. Last night I told **Rico** I want to start shopping there on Saturdays. Neither one of us can donate blood and we don’t have the cash right now to donate so that was the only way I could think of to help out. ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/57 "2003-07-19T03:01:43Z")
I just read this and feel the need to share…[Police Probe Possible Hit-And-Run Before Market Tragedy](http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2343173/detail.html) > [@](#): > > LOS ANGELES – Police are investigating the possibility that the driver who plowed through Santa Monica’s farmers market was speeding from the scene of a collision with a Mercedes before crashing through the market, killing 10 people and injuring dozens of others. Kathy ---
**Author:** ![censored](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/35a633/32.png) [@censored](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/censored)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018/58 "2003-07-19T04:51:32Z")
Last summer, I worked at 6th & Arizona and have walked through the farmers’ market countless times. I was at the scene yesterday, and it’s all cleaned up, except for news media residue, the memorial, and a Red Cross stand. This is a trivial point, but the two blocks he sped through were short blocks, a distance that is easily covered in a few seconds at speed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horrible-crash-in-santa-monica/189018.md?page=2)