# Horse meat scandal in Europe. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625 "2013-02-07T19:58:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/41 "2013-02-09T04:08:59Z")
> [@Deegeea](#): > > I’m allergic to pork, probably a fairly rare food allergy. Pork is always thoroughly cooked, and that does not help at all. My allergy is not severe, more of an intolerance than an acute allergy. I feel sick for 2-6 hours after eating it. The allergy was discovered when I was 16 with the standard allergen scratch test. > > I’m not allergic to any other mammalian meat I’ve ever tried. Based on that, it seems like it should be possible to be allergic to horse and not beef, or vice versa for that matter. Pork dna has also been found in food labelled as beef, so there ya go. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/42 "2013-02-09T05:44:00Z")
It will be interesting to learn where the horse meat was sourced. Plenty of US race horses are slaughtered in Canada and Mexico, and are shipped elsewhere. As previously noted, most (former) race horses are pumped with drugs, nasty crap you sure as heck don’t want to be eating. I’m guessing at least some of the meat involved is from the US. I actually wouldn’t be opposed to slaughter if the process, transport to and actual killing were humane, but they aren’t. Horses are shipped to auction and left in groups on lots for about a week. There’s a broad range of ages-from babies to senior citizens, all of whom have done nothing wrong except they have the misfortune of being unwanted. Dominant horses trample the more meek to eat all the food, so some horses starve for however long they’re there. They’re led into a ring and bid on by kill buyers, unless there’s a breed rescue group looking for candidates to bid on, rehab and re-home. The “winning” kill buyers then load their prizes on trucks meant for cattle. There are many injuries enroute. At the slaughterhouse, they get to watch each other die and be gutted. When it’s their turn they’re shot in the brain with a bolt gun meant for a cow. Many times it doesn’t work the first time. I \*\*wish \*\*I were exaggerating, but the horrors of this process have been well-documented. Enjoy your horse burger. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/43 "2013-02-09T05:51:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’d guess there are some folks in Britain freaking out. “OMG horse meat was in my mouth! I’ll never eat meat again. Puke, puke, puke.” “Wheres my lawyer, **I want to sue their asses.** ” That’s just not my style. It happened. Deal with it and move on. Let the lawyers make their millions somewhere else. You may have already _eaten_ their asses, and not even known it. Did that lunch at Taco Bell taste a little odd today? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/44 "2013-02-09T07:24:32Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > You may have already _eaten_ their asses, and not even known it. > > Did that lunch at Taco Bell taste a little odd today? So that’s why they call it a burrito! :smack: “little donkey” ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/45 "2013-02-09T11:45:52Z")
Honesty in the food chain is important for human health: > [@](#): > > Mad cow disease causes brain degeneration and death in cattle. It has been linked to the deaths of nearly 100 people in Great Britain who consumed meat from infected animals [http://www.cnie.org/NLE/CRSreports/Agriculture/ag-104.cfm](http://www.cnie.org/NLE/CRSreports/Agriculture/ag-104.cfm) Something I read seemed to say the horse meat was sourced from South America. (So that could be Brazil who have gotten very big into beef production as well). But, as has been stated, US horses are not raised as food animals. Here is a list of routinely used medications: [http://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/prohibited-drugs.php](http://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/prohibited-drugs.php) Then there is the fact that if they’d lie about horse meat, then what other forms of protein will they mis-label and call beef? For all you know, that company may have met ends on some months by picking up loads from the local rendering plant (places the dispose of road kill, dogs, cats, etc, etc). I think falsifying a label should be a business ending violation. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/46 "2013-02-09T15:45:49Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I doubt many racehorses are in this meat, though. Not a lot of racehorses, lots of pet dogs and cats. In 2010 in the US 138,000 horses were slaughtered specifically for their meat, a bit less than 10% were thoroughbred racehorses (roughly 10,000). Horses weigh 1200 lbs each. You’d be lucky to get 20 pounds of meat off a good sized dog. > **[Racing Industry Silent About Slaughtered Thoroughbreds](https://www.forbes.com/sites/vickeryeckhoff/2011/11/29/racing-industry-silent-about-slaughtered-thoroughbreds/)** > > This post is the first in a series on Thoroughbreds, racing and the state of the horse industry. How did a five-year-old racehorse named Princess Madeline end up in a feedlot on July 13, priced for slaughter? Ask a horse trainer, and they'll... ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/47 "2013-02-09T16:42:47Z")
CNN is reporting the story now. One sad consequence of this story is the tremendous waste of the recalled product. I hope CNN is exaggerating. It couldn’t be millions of packages of food could it? :dubious: Thats a lot of valuable food wasted simply because it had horse meat added. World hunger is such a problem and this food could do so much good. But it would be a PR nightmare to offer it to Haiti or other impoverished areas. Also the cost of keeping the food frozen, shipping, and distributing it would be too high. > **[Meat industry under scrutiny as horsemeat scandal spreads | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/09/world/europe/uk-horsemeat-probe/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)** > > A frozen food producer caught up in a scandal over horsemeat found in beef products said Saturday it will sue a Romanian producer it blames for the problem. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, an emergency meeting was held in London Saturday, as ministers, food inspectors and retailers grappled with a scandal that appears to be spreading across Europe. > > Environment Secretary Owen Paterson said it was “completely unacceptable” that consumers were being sold food that contained horse in place of beef. > > The evidence so far suggests “either criminal activity or gross negligence,” he said. > > Paterson warned that “more bad news” could come. > > UK food businesses have been ordered to test all processed beef products for “authenticity” and report back to the authorities by Friday. > > Retailers in the United Kingdom, France and Sweden pulled millions of lasagna and other processed beef products off the shelves as the alarm was raised over the Findus lasagnas. > > It comes less than a month after horsemeat was found in hamburgers sold in the United Kingdom and Ireland. Officials in Ireland have pointed to Polish meat ingredients as being the source of horsemeat found in burgers there. > > The UK Food Standards Agency said the evidence “points to either gross negligence or deliberate contamination in the food chain. This is why we have already involved the police, both here and in Europe.” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/48 "2013-02-09T17:04:24Z")
My wife just made a valid point. Why pull the food from the shelves and spend money recalling it? Why not offer it free to the public? It would be cheaper than recalling the food and shipping it somewhere to throw out. It would be so simple for each grocery store to put a free sticker on the recalled items. The public would snatch this free stuff up within a day or two. At least then it could be eaten and not wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/49 "2013-02-09T17:19:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > My wife just made a valid point. Why pull the food from the shelves and spend money recalling it? Why not offer it free to the public? It would be cheaper than recalling the food and shipping it somewhere to throw out. > > It would be so simple for each grocery store to put a free sticker on the recalled items. The public would snatch this free stuff up within a day or two. At least then it could be eaten and not wasted. Because it’s possible that some of the meat was from horses that had been given drugs that were dangerous for humans to consume. There are also liability issues. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/50 "2013-02-09T17:31:48Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I haven’t taken a fence - it’s the papers that are making hay out of it. Bunch of neighsayers, but we’re saddled with them. Question is whether this is a one-off or part of a rein of terror, and you know some people are going to stirrup all the trouble they can. It’s not even as if horse meat is bad for you - it’s rich in foalic acid, for a start; the worst it ever gave me was the trots - and, frankly, the common colt has done for more people than horse meat ever did. But people are up in arms if the latest Gallup poll is anything to go by, and I guess more cases are going to crop up. And a short RO break to _golf clap_ ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/51 "2013-02-09T17:35:52Z")
I’m still not clear how horse would be a cheaper substitute unless the horses they’re putting in are ropey as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/52 "2013-02-09T18:14:50Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I’m still not clear how horse would be a cheaper substitute unless the horses they’re putting in are ropey as fuck. I don’t understand ropey in this context? You mean tough, stringy? As far as that goes, you can’t tell after it’s ground up. The reason it’s cheaper is that other people volunteered to shoulder the cost of breeding and raising and feeding the horse all these years. The meat buyer pays maybe $200-$300 at auction for a horse yielding 600lbs of usable meat. You think you can raise a cow to slaughter for $300? Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/53 "2013-02-09T19:05:29Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > I don’t understand ropey in this context? You mean tough, stringy? As far as that goes, you can’t tell after it’s ground up. > > The reason it’s cheaper is that other people volunteered to shoulder the cost of breeding and raising and feeding the horse all these years. The meat buyer pays maybe $200-$300 at auction for a horse yielding 600lbs of usable meat. You think you can raise a cow to slaughter for $300? Good luck with that. I meant ropey as in bad. So it’s elderly horses being put in the food supply? Does the age of a horse matter as regards safety for human consumption? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/54 "2013-02-09T19:50:17Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I meant ropey as in bad. So it’s elderly horses being put in the food supply? Does the age of a horse matter as regards safety for human consumption? There are horses of every age and condition being put into the food supply. Do you not understand that if the cost of raising an animal is effectively free, you can sell its meat for cheap? Horses in the US are not raised for meat (its illegal to sell horse meat in many places); they are always raised as companion animals or race horses. Someone other than the meat seller has taken on the cost of raising the animal to adulthood 100% of the time. ETA: horse slaughter was illegal, but I guess slaughter was recently relegalized? I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/55 "2013-02-09T22:07:30Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Everyone I know has been making terrible jokes about it, but not actually bothered. At the same time, they would like to know what they are buying, which is fair enough - there’s no squeamishnous necessary for that. Absolutely - **has any British person here actually met anyone who is genuinely distressed about eating horse?** - I haven’t and frankly I ain’t really seen anything apart from one nerverous, er, nellie;) being interviewed on Sky News once. But then again, if I’m totally honest I don’t really know any super nervous people because I am boisterous even when I try not to be and I scare them. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Horse meat isn’t certified for human consumption in the UK either. Part of the reason for the kerfuffle for the good reasons you mention. Not sure what you mean by “certified” but it’s absolutely legal to slaughter horse in the UK for human consumption (in fact this is done - indeed I saw an animal welfare vid a while back which was complaining about one of the slaughterhouses) and it’s absolutely legal to sell horse meat in the UK too (this is also done and easy to find on google). Whether you can buy UK horse meat in the UK I do not know but I would be astounded if there is a legal impediment to it, it would make no sense. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/56 "2013-02-09T22:19:10Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > There are horses of every age and condition being put into the food supply. > > Do you not understand that if the cost of raising an animal is effectively free, you can sell its meat for cheap? Horses in the US are not raised for meat (its illegal to sell horse meat in many places); they are always raised as companion animals or race horses. Someone other than the meat seller has taken on the cost of raising the animal to adulthood 100% of the time. > > ETA: horse slaughter was illegal, but I guess slaughter was recently relegalized? I’m not sure. Oh I understand that fine, was just wondering how nefarious it is. I no longer eat meat but I wouldn’t be averse to eating horse if it’s safe to eat and labelled as such. I was imagining the sort of horses that would be going cheap would be disease addled is all. I’m aware too of the extensive horsemeat trade in France for one. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/57 "2013-02-09T22:31:33Z")
Most of the horses that go to meat are bought at auction. It is not necessarily the case that the sellers at auction realise that there are buyers there looking for delicious horse meat. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/58 "2013-02-09T22:55:41Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > And a short RO break to _golf clap_ Thank you, I’ll be here all week. Try the [del]foal[/del] veal! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/59 "2013-02-10T08:19:57Z")
According to French TV news, there are two French companies involved and in both cases the contaminated beef was from Romania, bought via the Nederlands and Cyprus. No cites. ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625/60 "2013-02-10T09:07:44Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > According to French TV news, there are two French companies involved and in both cases the contaminated beef was from Romania, bought via the Nederlands and Cyprus. > > No cites. > **[Horsemeat scandal blamed on international fraud by mafia gangs](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/feb/09/horsemeat-scandal-international-fraud)** > > DNA testing of food to be stepped up following fears there has been criminal activity on an international scale According to the story above, there’s evidence it’s a deliberate fraud, run by Polish and Italian mafia gangs, who were coercing vets in abbatoirs into signing off horse meat as beef. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horse-meat-scandal-in-europe/649625.md?page=4)