# Horses on Riverworld?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 22, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371 "2003-03-22T15:36:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/1 "2003-03-22T15:36:47Z")
The Sci-Fi Channel is presenting an original movie based on Philip Jose Farmer’s great “Riverworld” books. (That’s a **two hour** movie for an epic science fiction story, from the same network that devoted **ten hours** to that “Taken” crap.)
For some reason, they seem to have replaced Sir Richard Francis Burton, central figure of the book and one of the more interesting humans of the 19th century, with a fictional character. That’s bad enough, but in the promo I saw people riding horses.
I haven’t read the books in a good twenty years, but I’m pretty sure there were no horses, nor many non-human animals of any kind. I seem to recall there were fish and some kind of worm that was used in the production of gunpowder.
Am I wrong? I don’t have any of the books handy. If anybody has read them more recently, I’d be grateful if they could either set me straight or confirm I’m right.
I guess I’ll watch it, but I don’t have high hopes. Why didn’t somebody make a huge theatrical movie based on _To Your Scattered Bodies Go_? (R-rated, of course. For one thing, everybody starts out stark naked.)
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### Author:  [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/2 "2003-03-22T16:26:30Z")
I just recently reread the first book and yup, there were no horses. Not much in the way of metals either. And not only were they naked when “reborn” the people were totally hairless. That one scene where the fictional astronaut opens his eyes in the “bubble” shows him with hair.
I share your bewilderment that **Taken** got five nights, and **Riverworld** will get only one.
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### Author:  [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/3 "2003-03-22T16:34:57Z")
Hmm, horses would totally change the nature of the book! IIRC, they had a hell of a time getting raw materials for even basic things like fishing line and hooks (made from a certain large fish that lived deep in the River).
A lot of time and energy went into this and if they had a readily available source of horsepower (cough), glue, hides, bone, and hair, things would have been a LOT different from what PHF envisioned
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/4 "2003-03-22T17:15:43Z")
I wonder if they’ve included the grailstones?
I’m just imagining “Riverworld” done properly, on the big screen, with a $200 million budget…
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### Author:  [@spartacist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spartacist)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/5 "2003-03-22T17:32:16Z")
Riverworld?!?
Sci-Fi Channel?!?
Say it isn’t so! This is one of my absolute favorite sci-fi series ever, and I would hate to see that crappy network ruin it.
There were no horses, no hair (at first), and no metal.
To tell the story without Burton is just plain stupid - he and Goering.
Having said all of that. I am still going to watch it.
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### Author:  [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/6 "2003-03-22T17:36:16Z")
nit pick: there was metal, it was just really hard to find. How else was the Riverboat built? IIRC, Burton was told by one of the (???Founders/Creators? whatever the hell they were called) where a meteor had impacted and he then went about getting access to the land around it so he could mine the bauxite and make aluminium.
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### Author:  [@spartacist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spartacist)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/7 "2003-03-22T19:00:57Z")
Metal was put there by an Ethical in the second book. That is how the two great riverboats were built, as well as the aircraft.
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### Author:  [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/8 "2003-03-22T21:00:35Z")
They have only “loosely based” the Sci Fi series on the really awesome and amazing PJF series.
For instance it appears that some people have been on Riverworld for quite some time before Mr. Astronaut wakes up. Wasn’t everyone who died before 1986? supposed to wake up at the same time?
I’m actually not going to watch it, despite being a huge fan of the books. I know that even if I did try to watch it I’d turn it off in disgust after a few minute.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go and fantasize that the BBC is making a serialized version. That made me very happy when I fantasized they did the same for the Silmarillon. _Oh, Oh I’m laughing! I’m getting emotionally involved in it. I don’t really notice any glaring plot holes. The world is good!_
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### Author:  [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/9 "2003-03-22T22:40:37Z")
Yes, in the new Sci-Fi adaptation horses have wathans, just like humans. As it turns out, so do zebras, armadillos, miniature potbellied pigs, polar bears, addax antelope, giant sloths, howler monkeys, Nubian goats, Siberian tigers, the tuatara and the domestic chicken. This minor change to the series serves to make the Resurrection Day sequence much more visually interesting. The candiru fish also has a wathan, which is why no one goes down to the River after the first few days. Also, Starbuck is resurrected as a woman.
Excuse me, I need to go lie down now.
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### Author:  [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/10 "2003-03-23T02:08:09Z")
I just saw the start and so far it’s holding the record for most bare asses ever shown in a sci-fi movie.
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### Author:  [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/11 "2003-03-23T04:06:54Z")
I just saw the end. I gotta say, I like it. There was a lot about the book series I didn’t remember, but was glad to see again in the movie. Also a lot in the movie that didn’t happen at all . . .
I kind of like how they danced around Alice’s past life (the “mad hatter” picture being the only clue besides her name), and was about to say the same about Clemens until the end.
I’m glad the ending “twist” kept that people could be resurrected endlessly . . . my favorite part about the old books was when Burton decided to try to get to the source by killing himself over and over until he got close enough.
Too bad they “condensed” the first too books so briskly . . . there was a lot about the first book that really set it apart from the series . . . also I like how they tried to keep in the nudity 🙂
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### Author:  [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/12 "2003-03-23T04:14:41Z")
I have never read the books, but after seeing the movie, I plan on checking them out 🙂
I figured out Sam from the start, and in fact just assumed that I missed a piece of dialog when he announces himself as Sam Clemens. I think the presence of Nero made me look for it, and when they had a riverboat pilot named “Sam” I just assumed it was Mark Twain. I don’t see how he’s going to keep his identity secret if a dummy like me figured him out immediately 😛
btw, I thought Mark Twain was a red-head 😕
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### Author:  [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/13 "2003-03-23T06:07:40Z")
I just saw the last hour, having missed the first. Too bad I didn’t read this thread sooner–the first hour sounded more promising. 🙂
What I saw didn’t seem too bad. Does anyone know if it’s going to be broadcast again any time soon?
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/14 "2003-03-23T06:30:39Z")
Could have been worse, I suppose. Was that light-skinned actress really supposed to be African?
Did you notice that when night fell, they helpfully provided a close-up of the Moon? **The Moon. Earth’s Moon.** Brilliant!
Screw the Sci-Fi Channel. I think I’ll get ahold of the books and reread them.
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### Author:  [@Foolonthehill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foolonthehill)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/15 "2003-03-23T06:43:53Z")
This show was so bad on so many levels.
Resurrected in SHIFTS!! Oh fer chrissakes.
Ares as the Vandal King. I expected Xena to come screaming out of the rafters. The same fight choreography… Lame.
Nero punches out a neandethal man…Right. Then ouduels the King of the Vandals.
Animals?? What?
I hope Farmer got a lot of money, 'cause his Wathan is trapped in the tower after this.
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### Author:  [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/16 "2003-03-23T06:55:45Z")
hahaha, didn’t notice the moon there. But that aside, and although the computer animation was fairly tacky towards the end, I liked that they bothered to animate sword battles in the distant shots of the Not For Hire when it left shore. Kind of a nice detail you wouldn’t have even thought about if it was missing.
Wow, even the name of the ship is bringing back fond memories. I have to read those books again!
But as for the show, I’m kind of disappointed the makeup people weren’t ambitious enough to put Monat in from the start when everyone was still naked . . . in the book, wasn’t he supposed to have something like 100 testicles?
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### Author:  [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/17 "2003-03-23T07:05:12Z")
Oh, how convienent, they happened to stumble across a hunk of rock that makes cold fusion work when placed in a reactor made by hand using 18th century technology. This is the kind of thing that starts riots.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/18 "2003-03-23T16:42:01Z")
Never read the book and could only catch the last half of the show on TV … so who was the alien looking guy in the engine room of the riverboat?
I take it the book is a good read?
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### Author:  [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/19 "2003-03-23T19:05:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Foolonthehill \*
> \*\*This show was so bad on so many levels.
> Resurrected in SHIFTS!! Oh fer chrissakes.
> \*\*
A agree that the show was pretty sucky, but I can understand this decision. In a two hour movie, you need to get to the technology stuff pretty quick and this was a way to do it without having to compress time. I’m not crazy about it, but it’s a reasonable decision.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/horses-on-riverworld/163371/20 "2003-03-23T21:43:39Z")
> [@](#):
>
> hahaha, didn’t notice the moon there. But that aside, and although the computer animation was fairly tacky towards the end, I liked that they bothered to animate sword battles in the distant shots of the Not For Hire when it left shore. Kind of a nice detail you wouldn’t have even thought about if it was missing.
I thought there was something wrong about the name. The riverboat in the movie was called the _Go For Broke_, whereas in the book it was, of course, the _Not For Hire_. No idea why they’d make this change.
A few other things:
Couldn’t they have done a little research to find out what Neandertals probably looked like? They also seemed to think that Neandertals didn’t have a language. (And the word is **Neandertal**. It’s pronounced that way, and usually spelled that way these days.)
They also got Nero’s name wrong: it’s Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus, not Claudius Drusus Germanicus Nero. If they wanted a Roman emperor, why the hell pick him? I’ve never read anything to indicate that Nero was an expert fighter, nor any kind of natural leader. He was a pot-bellied matricidal poet of dubious skill. Octavian would have been interesting, or Hadrian, or Marcus Aurelius. Or if they just had to have a villain, you could do a lot better than Nero.
I’m definitely rereading the books now. (Although the way the mysteries were revealed was ultimately disappointing. Wathans? Well, with such a great set-up, perhaps any denoument would have been a let-down.)
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