# "Hot" spices other than New World chili peppers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707 "2005-03-29T01:24:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/41 "2005-03-31T05:04:13Z")
And what about all the other, non-chile-derived “hot” spices mentioned in this thread? Are they water-soluble? When cooking with horseradish, or ginger, or cilantro, or mustard, or mint, or black pepper, or pink pepper, or Szechuan pepper, is it essential to cook or dissolve the spice in oil? Or is it enough to cook it in the water-based cooking liquor of the dish? Or omit cooking entirely and sprinkle it on at the end? ---
**Author:** ![Scarface\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Scarface\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarface_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/42 "2005-03-31T05:26:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And what about all the other, non-chile-derived “hot” spices mentioned in this thread? Are they water-soluble? When cooking with horseradish, or ginger, or cilantro, or mustard, or mint, or black pepper, or pink pepper, or Szechuan pepper, is it essential to cook or dissolve the spice in oil? Or is it enough to cook it in the water-based cooking liquor of the dish? Or omit cooking entirely and sprinkle it on at the end? I know from experience that horseradish and ginger are plenty water soluble. And you should know black pepper, you’ve never added pepper to soup or such before? Capsaicin is non-polar and therefore doesn’t dissolve readily in polar liquids like water. Remember being told that water doesn’t help your burning tongue, it just spreads it around? Same idea. All the other spices have different chemicals that make them hot, I’m pretty sure their all water soluble. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/43 "2005-03-31T05:31:26Z")
> [@Scarface Z](#): > > Capsaicin is non-polar and therefore doesn’t dissolve readily in polar liquids like water. Could you please expand on that, for the benefit of Dopers who haven’t studied chemistry since high school? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scarface\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Scarface\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarface_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/44 "2005-03-31T05:31:40Z")
The Straight Dope Staff speaks: [What makes mustard so mustardy](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmustard.html) Oh, and remember that peppercorns are in no way related to capsicum hot peppers. Just thought I’d emphasize that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/45 "2005-03-31T05:42:58Z")
> [@Scarface Z](#): > > The Straight Dope Staff speaks: [What makes mustard so mustardy](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmustard.html) > > Oh, and remember that peppercorns are in no way related to capsicum hot peppers. Just thought I’d emphasize that. OK, but what’s this about “polar” and “non-polar” substances? The Master’s linked article doesn’t touch on that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/46 "2005-03-31T06:02:48Z")
> [@MisterThyristor](#): > > Paprika is still a new world pepper and the heat is due to capsaicin. It is a type of chili pepper that was transplanted to the old world and developed into an interesting variation. Yes, that is correct. Just to be clear, I’m not arguing that it isn’t a new world pepper. Paprika was introduced to Europe via the New World. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/47 "2005-03-31T06:08:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: !!! Does the bolded part apply to paprika only, or to chile-derived spices generally? Every chili recipe I’ve ever seen, that involves using any kind of dried powdered chile (e.g., “chile powder,” or cayenne pepper), prescribes adding the spice at a later stage, **after** the sauteeing of the onions and the browning of the meat! Have chiliheads been doing it wrong all these years?! I always do it with the fat using the Hungarian technique. I find it imparts a more bold flavor. If you’ll notice recipes for curries and the such, the spices are almost always dissolved in oil first, whether it be ghee, coconut fat, vegetable oil, or the like. When I make chili, I usually do brown the meat first, but my first introduction of spices is always made before I add any significant amounts of water, so they can spread their goodness through the fats. Now, there’s nothing wrong with putting spice dumps in throughout the cooking process—I just find that the initial dump should be made when there’s still no additional water and a significant amount of fat. It makes a better base for the dish. Try it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/48 "2005-03-31T06:13:21Z")
One last note (sorry for the three posts in a row): From _Culinaria Hungary_ by Aniko Gergely: > [@](#): > > **How to use the red spice** > In order for paprika to retain and develop its qualities in cooked dishes, quite a few points must be observed during preparation. > If using ground paprika in a roux…,or adding it to onions, first remove the pot from the heat. Do not return the pot to the heat until liquid has been added to the roux or the fat combined with any other ingredients that have a high water content…This is essential, since paprika has a high sugar content and therefore burns easily…Also, bear in mind that the flavor and color are released in hot fat, which is why sprinkling ground paprika over pale-looking dishes may improve their appearance, but does little for their flavor. If you like to use paprika to add color to a prepared dish, always stir the red powder into a little hot oil, and then add this to the dish. Paprika served separately at the table is not used as a seasoning in Hungary, but as an appetizing garnish—“a feast for the eyes.” ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/49 "2005-03-31T06:33:21Z")
Another thing to consider is that some things that are “hot” don’t take very well to cooking. Horseradish, for example, loses its “kick” upon exposure to heat. Oh, and one mildly hot spice that I forgot to list is allspice – _Pimenta dioica_, which is a new world spice first “discovered” on one of Columbus’s voyages. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/50 "2005-03-31T07:01:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > OK, but what’s this about “polar” and “non-polar” substances? The Master’s linked article doesn’t touch on that. Most people are aware from first year chemistry that stable molecules have a neutral electrical charge. This is true for the most part, but doesn’t tell the whole story. Many molecules do not have the electrical charge distributed equally throughout, and have positive and negative “poles” within them. A water molecule has an unbound electron pair on the oxygen atom in it, and carries a small negative charge at that end, which is balanced by a small positive charge on the hydrogen atoms within it. Non-polar is a bit of a misnomer for most substances, as they generally still have poles, just very very weak ones. For a [large](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Capsaicin-structure.png) molecule like capsaicin, there’s enough distance between charge centers that it’s not going to amount to much of a pole. Think of it like a center of gravity for the charge. Just like the idea of magnets, poles in molecules attract one another, meaning that molecules that are strongly polar will dissolve well in water, and those without them, will dissolve poorly (again, in general). ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/51 "2005-03-31T07:38:10Z")
I just realized that my above explanation is wrong in one respect, which I attribute to lack of sleep. The oxygen atom in a water molecule actually contains _two_ unbound electron pairs. As well, the negative pole in water is also due to the much stronger pull of the densely positive nucleus of the oxygen atom with 8 protons as oppossed to the single proton of the hydrogen nucleus. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/52 "2005-03-31T08:06:37Z")
Well all I’m sayin’ is, for all our friends around the world, if you come to the Americas, North America, Central America, South America, whatever. We know better. We eat this stuff!! Don’t eat “peppers” without identifying what pepper it is. Jalapeno, Habanero, Scotch-bonnet? Trust us. Some of our peppers can kill you. It ain’t all Paprika. ---
**Author:** ![Scarface\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Scarface\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarface_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/53 "2005-03-31T14:12:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > OK, but what’s this about “polar” and “non-polar” substances? The Master’s linked article doesn’t touch on that. However this quote, > [@](#): > > Mustard’s heat derives from mustard oils, which are released from mustard seed when the latter is crushed. These oils contain chemicals and enzymes that, when combined with water, react to liberate compounds called isothiocyanates, which give mustard its heat. That’s why, when you mix dry mustard with water, the heat of the mustard paste starts out low but slowly increases, reaching a peak in about 10-15 minutes. renders moot the point of whether the oils in mustard dissolve in water because the whole reason mustard is hot is due to oil’s reaction with water releasing isothiocyanates into solution. > [@](#): > > Horseradish also liberates isothiocyanates Well, there you go. You know, I could have also mentioned that mustard and horseradish are mixed with water not oil in their jars, although I don’t have a jar of either at the moment to check the ingredients. Could someone verify that? Thanks. **Raygun99** , thanks for explaining “like dissolves like”, I should have been more detailed in my post. ---
**Author:** ![Scarface\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Scarface\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarface_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/54 "2005-03-31T14:15:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Could you please expand on that, for the benefit of Dopers who haven’t studied chemistry since high school? 🙂 Also, I wasn’t trying to explain polar and non-polar substances, if you look at our posts they were both at 12:31, I hadn’t read your post yet and was just posting a follow-up to my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/55 "2005-03-31T18:08:30Z")
> [@MisterThyristor](#): > > Another thing to consider is that some things that are “hot” don’t take very well to cooking. Horseradish, for example, loses its “kick” upon exposure to heat. Has anyone ever tried adding horseradish to chili? (It seems logical – horseradish is traditionally a hot condiment for beef, and chili is a meat-based dish meant to be hot and spicy – but I’ve never seen horseradish mentioned in a chili recipe.) If so, should it be added last, to keep it raw? (Some chile recipes call for fresh cilantro/coriander – added last, sprinkled on top, and not cooked.) ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/56 "2005-03-31T18:17:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well all I’m sayin’ is, for all our friends around the world, if you come to the Americas, North America, Central America, South America, whatever. We know better. We eat this stuff!! Don’t eat “peppers” without identifying what pepper it is. Jalapeno, Habanero, Scotch-bonnet? Trust us. Some of our peppers can kill you. It ain’t all Paprika. Interestingly I had seen Scotch-bonnets described as Habanero’s. Apparently this is a common misconception [this website](http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/profile_hab.html) gives a very good and detailed description of the mistake. I presume the “Trust us. Some of our peppers can kill you.” was just an exageration, or are there some poisonous pepper varieties? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/57 "2005-03-31T18:17:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Has anyone ever tried adding horseradish to chili? (It seems logical – horseradish is traditionally a hot condiment for beef, and chili is a meat-based dish meant to be hot and spicy – but I’ve never seen horseradish mentioned in a chili recipe.) If so, should it be added last, to keep it raw? (Some chile recipes call for fresh cilantro/coriander – added last, sprinkled on top, and not cooked.) If you’re going to do that, I would probably add it at the end of cooking (or directly to the dish). Thinking about it, I don’t think the flavors of horseradish, cumin, and hot peppers would meld well together, but who knows? Give it a shot. Just add a teaspoon to your bowl upon serving. Forgive me if I’m stating the obvious, but the reason chili recipes call for fresh cilantro at the end of cooking time is because cooking cilantro, or any delicate herbs for that matter, lose their pungency upon if they’re heated for any period of time. You’re doing it as much for the aroma as for the flavor (after all, flavor perception is highly dependent on our sense of smell). Basil, parsley, cilantro, tarragon, mint, etc., are all examples of herbs that are normally added towards the end of the dish. More agressive “woody” herbs, such as rosemary, thyme, sage, etc., tend to be added at the beginning of the recipe. Exceptions abound, of course, but that’s the general rule. ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/58 "2005-03-31T21:44:52Z")
If you want the maximum intensity possible from horseradish, the way to go would be to grate the fresh root right on top of whatever. I haven’t tried it myself but everyone I’ve read says that nothing in a jar can compare to the intensity of fresh-grated. Supposedly, it loses intensity in a short time even unheated. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/59 "2005-03-31T21:48:09Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > I presume the “Trust us. Some of our peppers can kill you.” was just an exageration, or are there some poisonous pepper varieties? As far as I know, there are no poisonous varieties. Occasionally hot peppers will show up on lists of poisonous plants, but only because of the “burn” risk. They really aren’t poisonous. ---
**Author:** ![Scarface\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Scarface\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarface_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707/60 "2005-03-31T23:09:03Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > I presume the “Trust us. Some of our peppers can kill you.” was just an exageration, or are there some poisonous pepper varieties? I don’t know about deadly, but the hottest peppers (like habaneros) can give you a chemical burn if the capsaicin sits on your skin or tongue too long. My sister-in-law was helping out to can peppers and developed a severe skin irritation that last several days. Always where gloves when dealing with the hot stuff, and never, never rub your eyes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-spices-other-than-new-world-chili-peppers/296707.md?page=4)