# Hot Stove League **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756 "2009-11-08T02:51:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/81 "2009-12-16T19:00:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Yeahthe very thing that gives Cameron so much of his value is likely to be reduced in value considerably inside the cozy confines of Fenway Park. Only if he plays left. Center is actually pretty deep, 420 into the triangle. And half the games are on the road, anyway. Boston spent decades hoping that a team built around homering over the Wall could somehow win it all. The new regime knows better. > [@](#): > > i’d be very surprised if Cameron doesn’t end up in center rather than left. Cameron’s UZR/150 at CF is 5.7, while Ellsbury’s is -10.6. Cameron’s value as a fielder would, i think, be much better realized in center, where he can show off his skills more. Ellsbury can still cover much more ground. If they’re both out there, the kid is in CF, not the vet. > [@](#): > > But we’re talking about the Red Sox here, a team that is happy to throw money around. Not really. They have a big budget, but they do stick to it, and will rarely seriously overpay someone just to get him. Unless he’s a shortstop. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/82 "2009-12-18T17:52:15Z")
Cubs trade Milton Bradley to the Mariners for Carlos Silva. Is that like trading a pile of crap for a bucket of vomit? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/83 "2009-12-18T17:57:42Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Cubs trade Milton Bradley to the Mariners for Carlos Silva. > > Is that like trading a pile of crap for a bucket of vomit? Where did you see or hear this? Link please if possible. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/84 "2009-12-18T18:01:10Z")
> **[The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment,...](https://www.seattletimes.com)** > > Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest. It’s not certain, but my twitter feed absolutely exploded in the last 10 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/85 "2009-12-18T18:15:13Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > [The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest.](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/thehotstoneleague/2010540975_shocker_mariners_trading_carlo.html) > > It’s not certain, but my twitter feed absolutely exploded in the last 10 minutes. Cool, I tracked down this one. [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/18/bradley.mariners/index.html](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/18/bradley.mariners/index.html) So they trade Bradley and get no salary relief and a probably washed up pitcher. Still a gain for the Cubs. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/86 "2009-12-18T18:45:10Z")
[ESPN link](http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4754761) to the same story. This is a shit move for the Cubs. I know Bradley had to go but the guy still has some upside to go along with the contract and the baggage. Silva is actually owed _more_ money than Bradley and has virtually zero value and upside and he’ll be moving from a pitchers park to Wrigley which while not exactly a launching pad is by no means spacious. I hope there’s some cash or something else in this deal to make it less painful. ETA: Incidentally, why in god’s name did Seattle offer Silva that kind of money in the first place? What the hell were they thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/87 "2009-12-18T18:46:28Z")
And a great deal for the Mariners, who get a guy who will either get his head on semi-straight and be an asset on offense, or can be cut and they’re no worse off than they were with Silva. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/88 "2009-12-22T16:18:46Z")
Javier Vazquez returns to Yanks along with 24 year old lefty Boone Logan. Yanks send Melky Cabrera and Mike Dunn a promising AAA lefty reliever that was slated to replace Phil Coke. Also a minor leaguer to be named later. Atlanta got the outfielder they were looking for and the salary relief they wanted. Yanks got the solid 4 man for the rotation that always gets 10+ wins and alway over 190 innings pitched. He is due 11.5 million and is done. He will be 33. This will now run up speculation about the Yanks adding a veteran outfielder. Damon and DeRosa will probably be the leading names. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/89 "2009-12-22T18:18:50Z")
I’m mixed about this trade. Melky had some big hits for the Yanks this season. I wasn’t impressed with Vazquez the first time around, although he seemed to pick it up again. I’m concerned he doesn’t deal with the pressure that well. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/90 "2009-12-22T18:30:46Z")
I’ve always liked Cabrera but they had the makings of a logjam in the outfield and it makes sense to turn some of those players around and get something else. They’re adding salary but Damon makes sense again in this configuration. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/91 "2009-12-22T18:31:38Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I’m mixed about this trade. Melky had some big hits for the Yanks this season. I wasn’t impressed with Vazquez the first time around, although he seemed to pick it up again. I’m concerned he doesn’t deal with the pressure that well. I’m a little mixed, but Melky was trade bait with the Granderson pick up. Vasquez was not really that bad in his first go around and he has improved a lot. Torre had a short leash with Javier for some reason and I think it affected him by the second half of the year. He did go 14-10 for us. He has put up 200+ innings ever since in both the NL & AL and gets Ks and wins. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/92 "2009-12-23T00:57:38Z")
And we’ve needed the pitching, lord knows. So anyone get all pissy about the yankees buying talent anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/93 "2009-12-23T01:05:32Z")
Nobody’s mentioned that the Nationals _clinched a playoff birth_ the other day by signing Jason Marquis - whose teams (Braves, Cardinals, Cubs, Rockies) have made the postseason ten years running. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/94 "2009-12-23T01:27:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Nobody’s mentioned that the Nationals _clinched a playoff birth_ the other day by signing Jason Marquis - whose teams (Braves, Cardinals, Cubs, Rockies) have made the postseason ten years running. Well maybe not, but the Mets are looking really dumb in my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/95 "2009-12-23T02:21:42Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Well maybe not, but the Mets are looking really dumb in my eyes. I’m still wondering if they will get Jason Bay, or if he’s just trying to get the best offer from Boston. I said the Yankees had a glut of outfielders but I forgot Nady is now a free agent. So they have some room available. And he fits better in the number two hole than Granderson does, unless they agree with me that it’s time to move Cano up there. EDIT: Nevermind. I bet they see Johnson batting second. But they do need some more outfield help. Gardner, Granderson, and Swisher can’t be the 7-8-9 they have in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/96 "2009-12-23T04:07:01Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Well maybe not, but the Mets are looking really dumb in my eyes. For not signing Jason Marquis? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/97 "2009-12-23T13:49:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m still wondering if they will get Jason Bay, or if he’s just trying to get the best offer from Boston. > > I said the Yankees had a glut of outfielders but I forgot Nady is now a free agent. So they have some room available. And he fits better in the number two hole than Granderson does, unless they agree with me that it’s time to move Cano up there. EDIT: Nevermind. I bet they see Johnson batting second. But they do need some more outfield help. Gardner, Granderson, and Swisher can’t be the 7-8-9 they have in mind. I don’t think the Yanks are done yet. I still think they will either add the versatile Jersey native Mark DeRosa or make one more trade. However, starting Gardner in left is not the worst idea either. He is light hitting but gets on base at a good clip, nearly as well as Cano (who is not a 2 hitter yet, learn to walk Robby) Gardy steals almost at will and at least makes the battery nervous which will aid Jeter and Nick Johnson as the 1 & 2 guys. Also the Yanks picked up promising OF in the rule 5 draft that will be the 4th outfielder. Hoffman I think was his name without looking it up. Good RF arm and average CF speed. Basically has Melky’s defense though not his bat yet. > [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > For not signing Jason Marquis? Not by itself but their off season so far has shown little ability to seriously compete in 2010. They have rotation problems, bullpen holes and many positional holes and have yet to sign either Bay or Molina. Marquis by all reports wanted to be a Met and the price tag was hardly high, especially for the team that had the #1 payroll in the NL last year. He was a good fit for the Mets and Citifield. A solid 4 man that would give them 190+ innings. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/98 "2009-12-23T14:25:24Z")
The Mets had the highest payroll in the NL? Wow. They’re shaping up for the 2010 or 2011 squad to challenge the 1993 squad for the title of “The Worst Team Money Can Buy.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/99 "2009-12-23T14:27:35Z")
Well they did sh[del]r[/del]ed some payroll at least so far and have not spent it yet. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756/100 "2009-12-23T14:35:24Z")
Ugh. Don’t even freaking get me started on the Mets. The only thing I can think of is that Omar knows he’s a dead man walking, and he’s trying to screw up the team so badly that his successor can’t succeed, either, which will retroactively make Omar look better. I mean, what are they _doing_ here. No attempt whatsoever to get Halladay or Lackey. Not even a token attempt to sign Marquis (not that he’d be any great shakes, but he’d be better than basically anybody the Mets will throw this year excepting Santana). Can’t get the Jason Bay thing done, even though they’re offering him way more than anyone else and way more than he’s worth. And Bengie Molina? Really, Omar? A guy with an OBP under .300 is basically useless in a major league lineup, and that’s ignoring the fact that he’s a 34-year-old _catcher_. REALLY? No one sees a problem with giving big money to a player at a position where historically just about everyone declines in their middle-30’s? And not just a player, but a BAD player? Just go with Omir Santos and Josh Thole, for god’s sake, and work on the fact that right now, the guy who’s going to be your number two starter had an ERA over 5 last year! And is Daniel Murphy really going to start the season at first base? That’s the actual _plan_? WHY CAN THIS MAN NOT GET FIRED? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hot-stove-league/516756.md?page=6)