# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/261 "2011-01-17T21:57:11Z")
One can make use of information without trusting it is 100% accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/262 "2011-01-17T22:13:21Z")
Let me amend that, then. It’s certainly useful information, and it might be accurate useful information. Even inaccurate information can be useful. If, for instance, after we have a few deaths, it comes to light that all of the vanillas have boring names and all of the power roles have cool names, then that might shed suspicion on **ushi**. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/263 "2011-01-17T22:17:03Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I read the first as saying “If I were not Vanilla, then it would be foolish for me to claim Vanilla”, especially because you added " Mostly all my Day One claims are when I’m vanilla". It seemed pretty clear you were emphasizing the fact that you are, indeed, Vanilla in this game. Bolding mine. You’re wrong, then. Or rather, you misread, misunderstood, or both. The whole jist of that message was “If one is a detective, it’d be stupid to claim detective on Day One. Any other role (including Vanilla), however, is fair game.” > [@](#): > > Then you came back a little while later and basically said “…or maybe not :wink, wink:” I did nothing of the sort. I was just answering Chronos in regards to what I’d do **if I was** a detective or power role…which is basically, claim vanilla anyway. But I’m not a power role, I’m vanilla. So in the end, it’s the same thing. So again, where do I contradict myself? I don’t see anywhere where I do. ETA: I’m editting to fix quoting. Vote for me for editting if you wish, I don’t care (although the mod said we’re allowed to). ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/264 "2011-01-17T22:25:47Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > One can make use of information without trusting it is 100% accurate. OK, but point out how ushi’s Vanilla claim is good for Town \*right now. \*If it’s useful later, then why not do it later. It should be very apparent how such information might be useful to Scum \*right now. \* ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/265 "2011-01-17T22:29:16Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, but point out how ushi’s Vanilla claim is good for Town \*right now. > > \*If it’s useful later, then why not do it later. > > It should be very apparent how such information might be useful to Scum \*right now. > \* hey, **ed** help me out. how is **sushi** ’s claim different from **idle** ’s? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/266 "2011-01-17T22:36:10Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > hey, **ed** help me out. how is **sushi** ’s claim different from **idle** ’s? They are quite similar. My reaction to them is what’s different. I thought I explained the reason for the difference in my reaction clearly. Perhaps I didn’t. In regards to Idle: I seriously doubt that any reaction I could have made would have prevented him from acting in any specific way. He’s aware enough of all of the implications of his actions and has made his decisions. I could engage him in a conversation about them. I could be snarky with him. While that might be entertaining for me, I doubt it would result in anything useful. In regards to ushi: I was hoping to maybe enlighten him as to why his claim might not be in the Town’s best interest. In fact, as I recall, he was even asking questions about unknown pools and such. He’s a new player. These ideas might not have occurred to him. My approach to him was too insulting. I should have approached it differently. Do you see the difference now? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/267 "2011-01-17T22:37:29Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > hey, **ed** help me out. how is **sushi** ’s claim different from **idle** ’s? I should add: Certainly, peeker, you should be aware that I disagree with Idle’s usual Day 1 Vanilla claim. I ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/268 "2011-01-17T22:38:24Z")
**Vote special ed** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/269 "2011-01-17T22:49:24Z")
> [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > **Vote special ed** it’s customary to share reasons when voting. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/270 "2011-01-17T22:51:24Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, but point out how ushi’s Vanilla claim is good for Town \*right now. > \*If it’s useful later, then why not do it later. > It should be very apparent how such information might be useful to Scum \*right now. > \* 1. The town needs to choose a lynch target right now; this information could be used. 2. Any townie with a Day power needs to choose a target right now; this information could be used. 3. Any townie with a Night power will need to choose approximately now (since claims are verboten at Night); this information could be used. 4. This information constrains any further claims **ushi** may make right now. 5. If **ushi** is lying, this information risks implicating them right now. > [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > **Vote special ed** Please tell us explicitly why you’re voting for **ed** , so that we can evaluate your motives and decide whether or not to follow you. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/271 "2011-01-17T22:53:27Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > it’s customary to share reasons when voting. Now \*that’s \*a Kinder, gentler Ed! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/272 "2011-01-17T22:53:58Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > 1. The town needs to choose a lynch target right now; this information could be used. > 2. Any townie with a Day power needs to choose a target right now; this information could be used. > 3. Any townie with a Night power will need to choose approximately now (since claims are verboten at Night); this information could be used. > 4. This information constrains any further claims **ushi** may make right now. > 5. If **ushi** is lying, this information risks implicating them right now. So, then are you advocating that all of the Vanilla Town players claim right now? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/273 "2011-01-17T22:55:08Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > They are quite similar. > > My reaction to them is what’s different. > > I thought I explained the reason for the difference in my reaction clearly. Perhaps I didn’t. > > In regards to Idle: > I seriously doubt that any reaction I could have made would have prevented him from acting in any specific way. He’s aware enough of all of the implications of his actions and has made his decisions. I could engage him in a conversation about them. I could be snarky with him. While that might be entertaining for me, I doubt it would result in anything useful. > > In regards to ushi: > I was hoping to maybe enlighten him as to why his claim might not be in the Town’s best interest. In fact, as I recall, he was even asking questions about unknown pools and such. He’s a new player. These ideas might not have occurred to him. My approach to him was too insulting. I should have approached it differently. > Do you see the difference now? got it. because **idle** is going to do what **idle** is going to do and **sushi** didn’t do what you want him to do (or not do) **sushi** gets more grief. got it. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/274 "2011-01-17T22:57:06Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > it’s customary to share reasons when voting. fucking pot and kettle. jeebz. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/275 "2011-01-17T22:59:20Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > got it. because **idle** is going to do what **idle** is going to do and **sushi** didn’t do what you want him to do (or not do) **sushi** gets more grief. > > got it. oh for goodness sake. I know you can understand me. I didn’t need to explain anything to Idle. he understood fully what he did. I doubt that ushi did. He even questioned why people were criticizing him. I felt I could enlighten him. I chose a poor approach in doing so by insulting his sensitivities. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/276 "2011-01-17T22:59:43Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > 1. The town needs to choose a lynch target right now; this information could be used. > 2. Any townie with a Day power needs to choose a target right now; this information could be used. > 3. Any townie with a Night power will need to choose approximately now (since claims are verboten at Night); this information could be used. > 4. This information constrains any further claims **ushi** may make right now. > 5. If **ushi** is lying, this information risks implicating them right now. The problem with items 1,2,3, and 5 is that we have no way of evaluating \*\*ushi’s \*\*claim right now, and without knowing whether or not it’s truthful it’s of no use to Town in determining how to vote or how to target. Item 4 is correct; ushi has now limited himself as far as future claims go, so it has \*some \*usefulness there; however, a fake Vanilla claim is pretty easy for Scum to maintain, so it still doesn’t tell us much. If \*\*ushi \*\*had claimed a Power, this would carry much more weight. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/277 "2011-01-17T22:59:48Z")
**ushi** , this may be another newbie thing, but it’s a very good idea to explain your reasons when you vote for someone. For one thing, all of the other players are evaluating the person you’re voting for, too. You shouldn’t vote for someone unless you want them to be lynched, and you can’t lynch someone without getting other people to vote for them, too, so you should be trying to convince others that your target is Scummy. For another thing, of course, all of the other players are also evaluating _you_. If your reason for voting for someone is that e did X, Y, and Z, which together make you think that he’s more likely to be Scum, that’s reasonable. But your reason for voting might also (for all anyone but you knows) be just that you’re a Scum and he’s a Townie, and you think you might be able to get him killed, thereby helping your team. And unless you explain your reasons, we have no way to tell which it is. Quoth **Idle Thoughts** : > [@](#): > > ETA: I’m editting to fix quoting. Vote for me for editting if you wish, I don’t care (although the mod said we’re allowed to). Yes, the mod is allowing us to edit. The mod is also allowing us to lie, and he’s allowing some of us to murder others by Night. The fact that the mod allows it has no bearing on whether we should vote for it. In fact, if the mod didn’t allow editing, we wouldn’t even _need_ to vote based on it, since the mod would take care of it for us. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/278 "2011-01-17T23:01:28Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > fucking pot and kettle. jeebz. I didn’t state that I always do so. Just pointing out the customs for our new player. He’s not obligated to follow. I just wanted to be sure he understood how it usually works. See, now if Idle had done that, I probably wouldn’t have had to explain the customs to him. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/279 "2011-01-17T23:02:49Z")
Well, I’m sorry for wanting to make my post easier to read for people since the tags were all screwed up. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/280 "2011-01-17T23:03:42Z")
[oog] had a busy weekend, still ruminating everything[/oog] > [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > **Vote special ed** Are you planning on justifying that? # On preview, I see I’m not the only one asking that question. As far as the 2 vanilla claims: I hope this doesn’t turn into a trend. But the two that have been made cannot be unmade, and I despite how much I dislike unprovoked claims, I can’t really see the point in voting based solely on that. Along these lines and on preview, **Suburban** , do we really have to evaluate these claims toDay? I’m just not seeing the point I guess. Unprovoked claims are bad play IMO, but not really a scum indicator to me, since some people just do it. ===== Right now the only slight ping I’m feeling is \*\* Chronos \*\*. > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so first game-related thought: Given the color, I think that it’s likely that we’re playing a power-role heavy game, here. With that in mind, I think it’s probably safe to say that we’re likely to have a full stable of the standard roles, like Detective, Doctor, Town Roleblocker, Vig, and probably a powered Scum team (probably a Godfather, Scum Investigator, and Scum Roleblocker, at least). **I think I have a bad habit of leaving assumptions tacit, so let me just say up front that, pending evidence to the contrary, I will be assuming that we have many different powers.** His earlier statement about making assumptions, feels like a disclaimer to me. If I get cynical, I can easily read it as “I’m making this assumption now, so when I slip up later about the make up of the scum team, I can point back to this statement and say I’ve been assuming this all along.” Not to mention it reeks of the fear of being lynched. It’s just too overcautious, and doesn’t strike me as a very townish thing to say. I will say this though, he does have history on his side for getting burned on making assumptions (Harry Potter, IIRC). **vote Chronos** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=15)