# Hotel of Heroes mafia

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544>\
**Category:** The Game Room\
**Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 16

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**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/301 "2011-01-18T01:05:47Z")

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> [@special\_ed](#):
>
> yeah, because I’m disruptive.
> 
> You mean, I post a lot, right?

Okay disruptive is too strong and maybe even a little patronizing, in which case I am sorry.

What I meant is that too a certain extent I haven’t see the value of some of your psots to town, I suspect (thoguh only very weakly, but at the moment I cannot be sure of much) they may’ve been to disrupt the discussion.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/302 "2011-01-18T01:08:35Z")

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> [@special\_ed](#):
>
> I didn’t understand this. I’m sorry.

What I’m saying is basically I’m trying to put myself in the postion of other people. Not that I think everyone thinks like me, but tbh what else can you do in this game?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/303 "2011-01-18T01:09:05Z")

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> [@These are my own pants](#):
>
> Okay disruptive is too strong and maybe even a little patronizing, in which case I am sorry.
> 
> What I meant is that too a certain extent I haven’t see the value of some of your psots to town, I suspect (thoguh only very weakly, but at the moment I cannot be sure of much) they may’ve been to disrupt the discussion.

Fair enough.

Give me some advice for the future then. Do you think I should just lie and agree with ideas that I feel are poor? Or should I just keep my mouth shut and not share my opinion?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/304 "2011-01-18T01:11:18Z")

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> [@Pleonast](#):
>
> I don’t understand the complaints about **Chronos** ’ vote analysis program. I’ve done similar computations by hand in past games. It’s simply a way to quantify one’s “gut” feeling about the voting. It’s as useful as any other argument players make–either it seems plausible or it does not. You give it credence or do not.
> 
> In any case, the player is making a statement that can be used to evaluate them. It’s unhelpful to discourage players from making statements about their suspicions.
> 
> Others of us have different opinions, of course. Our goal is gather information that allows us to lynch scum before running out of mislynches. The spirit of the game is to do this via interacting in the thread. A mass claim is certainly within that spirit.
> 
> You misunderstand what that means. If the game is not breakable, then it’s okay to do a mass claim. Because we will not break the game.
> 
> Breaking game means that one side gains an insurmountable advantage. If the game is well-designed, then a mass claim will not give either side a huge advantage. But it may give one side or the other a slight advantage. And which way it goes will depend on how well it’s played out, because of the skill or lack of skill of the players.
> 
> is out of line for a moderator to say, in my opinion. It’s the moderator’s job to implement the rules, not to tell players how to play.
> 
> You mean you’d rather have a mass claim when half our power roles are already dead, so town can’t make full use of the information? You’re missing a key advantage of an early mass claim–we still have a full complement of power roles who can starting working with the information.
> 
> And you’ve got something else wrong: it’s almost always foolhardy to publicly assign actions to power roles. It makes it too easy for scum to disrupt them. Power roles should always do what they think is best, not what the “town” tells them to do.
> 
> More misunderstanding. Unbreakable means no side gains an huge advantage, not that no one gains anything.

Wow, **Pleonast.**

You know how this will End. It won’t be pretty. It’s comming. But, lets get started here first.

1. You might as well have claimed characteristically early, this would have gone down a lot better for you.  
0.1 However, instead, you come off even MORE pompous than you did the the game where I called you on your early claim. LotR was it?  
0.2 That is to say, I would \>almost\< have accept you claiming early this game. You went beyond that.

1.Chronos’ vote program speaks for it self.  
1.1 It says “I Suck, I hate my life, and I want to die.”  
1.2 It would be nice to confirm the fact that you have “done similar computations in past games” but I’m not entirely sure how to do that.  
1.2.1 Even still, I wonder how similar your computations were, were you also lying as Chronos was? Were you also manipulating your computations? ““Analysis”” anywhere near, or resembling Chronos’ program has a very bad taint to it. Very bad.  
1.3 “Gut” here just reads as a way for you to go after town, but have a “safe” excuse.

1. Here you go Townies, feel free to use all the rope you would like. Make detailed notes too, that way, I can along behind you, and hang you with it. I will also glean more information than your rotting corpse in the bargain.

3.Scum could say this as well. I would digress into a general Thought experiment here, but I am blanking on it, and I don’t think you guys like it when I get too wordy. [And I’m not done here yet.]

3.1 Suffice to say, Some Greek guy and a Tortise were in a foot race, and the Greek guy reasoned that as long as he remains further along in the race, and he moves at the EXACT pace as the Tortise, the Tortise will never catch him, and he will never lose.

3.1.1 Claiming would do this for Scum. Scum are the Greek Guy, Town is the Tortise. The information posted on this thread helps everyone playing. There is nothing town can say in **this** thread that Scum can’t also read. Hence 3.1

3.1.2 There is a possibility of Masons in this game. This is why I bold " this " in 3.1.1

3.2 More Preaching from Pompous guy. Yes, let’s play the game by how _you_ think it works, there wont be a primrose path to our demise in there, not at all.

1. “These are not the Droids I am looking for”.  
4.1 Ok, but damn if there isn’t similar trickery here. At best, you are asking for a HUGE leap of faith here. We can Always Trust Pleonast, in everything!  
4.2 If you are scum, I do not want to trust you for anything, including this serpentine logic.

4.3 I see more Scum Motivation in this than Town. [Perhaps I should have lead with this one?]  
5. Just reads as scum giving more sugar coating to Town. I fear this entire paragraph, if the better players are Scum.

1. This one alone should get you the vote. I mean wow, I’ve had words for Moderators about games, but this just comes off as Uber-pompous.

6.1 Paraphrased : A Mod shouldn’t tell players how to play.  
6.1.1 Then what are the Rules and Roles for, at that point ?  
6.1.2 If you don’t want to play, the door is over there.

1. Just one word. Discretion.

8 and 9 : Pompous with a capital Pompous. You’re way is better. We should trust you without fail, without question.

> [@Pleonast](#):
>
> There’s your problem. The first statement does not imply the second. An unbreakable game means we won’t get game-breaking information. Useful information does not have to be game-breaking.
> 
> I can’t recall there ever being any mass claim on Day One or Two of a game.

1. A faint whiff of “scum weasel” excuse making here.

2. Is this a threat or a challenge ? I’m guessing you are challenging us to do it.

> [@Pleonast](#):
>
> Snipped. A Direct response to Peeker.
> 
> I’ve moved on to Zen WIFOM. 🆒

And you almost would have gotten away with it, if it wasn’t for that meddling raccoon.

> [@Pleonast](#):
>
> Does this mean you’re claiming to have no powers?

Here **fishy fishy fishy** , here **fishy fishy fishy**.

> [@Pleonast](#):
>
> One can make use of information without trusting it is 100% accurate.

Scum have to do this each and every day.

\*\*  
Vote Pleonast\*\*

You are Asking for others to trust you a tad too much on day 1. At the same time you are carving out space for you to come back to once your scummy house of cards falls down. You seem to be raping Chronos and Maha , using them and their efforts to your own ends. Everyone knows that Chronos’ program sucks, I will copy him and his efforts, and then point the finger at him if I get in trouble for my copy. Same for Maha.

Again, You just seem to be incredibly too self confident, and I flat out do not like it. It seems way too fake. It seems put on, much like Scum has to put on a Town facade.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/305 "2011-01-18T01:15:54Z")

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> [@special\_ed](#):
>
> Fair enough.
> 
> Give me some advice for the future then. Do you think I should just lie and agree with ideas that I feel are poor? Or should I just keep my mouth shut and not share my opinion?

No I don’t, I cannot exclude the possibilty that you simply disagree with my premises at a more basic level than I have allowed for. btw when I talk about disrupting the discussion I do not mean the posts made in response to mine.

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**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/306 "2011-01-18T01:19:06Z")

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Man, I love this start. Everyone’s participating, and the spurious votes are being thrown out before I even get a chance to. Brings a tear to my eye.

Special Ed being disruptive is kind of a null tell. I’m remembering a game where he systematically revealed the town power roles, and turned out to be a good guy. I think he’s been careful to avoid a repeat of that performance since then. 😃

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/307 "2011-01-18T01:22:58Z")

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> [@These are my own pants](#):
>
> No I don’t, I cannot exclude the possibilty that you simply disagree with my premises at a more basic level than I have allowed for. btw when I talk about disrupting the discussion I do not mean the posts made in response to mine.

Then you should be specific. Do you mean the bitchslap post?

I think you’ll find most people around here will agree that that’s a null tell for me.

_sigh_

I do tire of this.

I enjoy this game. I’m not very good at it. I suppose that I’m the guy who when he plays basketball with his friends, elbows fly and noses occasionally get bloodied.  
I have a feeling that a good portion of the people here, if they were to step on a court with friends would be calling ‘foul’ on half the plays.

I just don’t like playing here anymore.

**Mahaloth, sub me out, if you please**

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/308 "2011-01-18T01:25:00Z")

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> [@Chipacabra](#):
>
> Special Ed being disruptive is kind of a null tell. I’m remembering a game where he systematically revealed the town power roles, and turned out to be a good guy. I think he’s been careful to avoid a repeat of that performance since then. 😃

Well, at least he’s not quoting Wikipedia.

Again.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/309 "2011-01-18T01:26:27Z")

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\*\*Ruh-roh.

Ed?

Really? \*\*

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/310 "2011-01-18T01:28:56Z")

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> [@Pleonast](#):
>
> (snipped Peeker’s comment about lying scum)  
> Since that is an obvious lie, I will interpret this statement as **peeker** trying to bluff us with a playful admission of being scum.  
> **vote peekercpa**

Pesky broken nested quoting yargle bargle

Anyway, does this strike anyone else as being a little opportunistic? Like, jumping on whatever random thing peeker says, just because it’s peeker and you know you can make peeker look bad.

I mean, I’m no stranger to day one votes in the total absence of evidence, but this feels borderline premeditated to me.  
**FOS Pleonast**

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/311 "2011-01-18T01:30:44Z")

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(oog)  
Awww. I like playing with Ed, though. Even when it’s my face getting elbowed.  
(/oog)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/312 "2011-01-18T01:34:22Z")

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> [@Chipacabra](#):
>
> Man, I love this start. Everyone’s participating, and the spurious votes are being thrown out before I even get a chance to. Brings a tear to my eye.
> 
> Special Ed being disruptive is kind of a null tell. I’m remembering a game where he systematically revealed the town power roles, and turned out to be a good guy. I think he’s been careful to avoid a repeat of that performance since then. 😃

Yes an agent provocteur has use for both town and scum, I don’t think I could vote for him on that basis alone.

I think this naming business is the only thing which genuinely gives pause for thought. It would be very interesting to me to see how someone who came out strongly against my idea would claim there character to be a good guy or a bad guy and in the context of that what their explanation would be for coming out strongly against my idea. Okay I would not say that issues related to naming are in anwya close to damning, but I don’t have much else to go on.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/313 "2011-01-18T01:39:38Z")

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\*\*Vote Count:

Idlethoughts(1): Suburban Plankton

Peeker(1): Pleonast

Specialed(3): Chronos, ushimi, thesearemypants

Chronos(1): Redskeezix,

Pleonast(1): Meeko  
\*\*

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/314 "2011-01-18T01:56:44Z")

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> [@special\_ed](#):
>
> yeah, because I’m disruptive.
> 
> You mean, I post a lot, right?

Well to be fair, **Ed** …you post a lot \*and \*you have a tendency to be “difficult”, especially to people who aren’t used to you.

On Preview, you’re now asking to be subbed out? Really? Because a newcomer doesn’t like your playstyle?

C’mon **Ed** …really?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/315 "2011-01-18T02:21:58Z")

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> [@These are my own pants](#):
>
> Yes an agent provocteur has use for both town and scum, I don’t think I could vote for him on that basis alone.
> 
> I think this naming business is the only thing which genuinely gives pause for thought. It would be very interesting to me to see how someone who came out strongly against my idea would claim there character to be a good guy or a bad guy and in the context of that what their explanation would be for coming out strongly against my idea. Okay I would not say that issues related to naming are in anwya close to damning, but I don’t have much else to go on.

Given what you say here, I’m really not sure why you are voting for **Ed** , then.

He’s certainly not the only one who’s come out against your idea. For example, I am quite strongly opposed to it, because I think it will give us almost no useful information but will create a great deal of ‘disturbance’. But I tend to be rather less confrontational than **Ed** , (or at least less overtly so).

I really don’t understand your vote here…it seems like it’s based partially on his not liking your idea, with the ‘tipping point’ being that you find his playstyle not to your liking. That’s not necessarily a ‘bad reason’ for a vote at this point in the game, but I think we all want to understand the motivation behind it (at least I do).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/316 "2011-01-18T02:23:22Z")

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> [@special\_ed](#):
>
> Then you should be specific. Do you mean the bitchslap post?
> 
> I think you’ll find most people around here will agree that that’s a null tell for me.
> 
> _sigh_
> 
> I do tire of this.
> 
> I enjoy this game. I’m not very good at it. I suppose that I’m the guy who when he plays basketball with his friends, elbows fly and noses occasionally get bloodied.  
> I have a feeling that a good portion of the people here, if they were to step on a court with friends would be calling ‘foul’ on half the plays.
> 
> I just don’t like playing here anymore.
> 
> **Mahaloth, sub me out, if you please**

Sorry I missed this post earlier.

Yes I do mean that post. Do not get me wrong, I am not being personal, nor am I calling you out about the way you play the game. You’re just the person I have the most suspicions about right now. I may’ve choosen my words poorly, but I simply was trying to express my ideas. May be in labelling other players style as abrasive I’m being a hypocrite.

Infact I think I’m just about to do a 360. I do not think a scum player would upset someone who was scum, even if they don’t like the way it was worded and even they were scum I don’t think they would ask to be subbed out as a tatic as that. So I can only take your request as a sign of genuine upset (for which I am sorry) and that genuine upset as a sign that they are town.

**unvote special ed**

Now that seems like a massive flip-flop I have read in the wikipedia article (for which apart from the international mafia thread is one of my only source for how this game works) about the differences between the response of town and scum players to being accused.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/317 "2011-01-18T02:28:15Z")

</div>

NETA: If it looks like I’m playing “grill the newbie” here, that’s not my intention. If your entire reason for voting was “I don’t like the cut of his jib”, that would be fine as long as you were open about your reasoning. It’s very early in the game, and voting based on “feeling” isn’t necessarily the worst thing you can do.

It’s better than jumping on the “bandwagon of the week” just because “that’s what all the cool kids are doing”, for example.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/318 "2011-01-18T02:29:31Z")

</div>

Eh, never mind…

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/319 "2011-01-18T02:47:45Z")

</div>

> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#):
>
> Given what you say here, I’m really not sure why you are voting for **Ed** , then.
> 
> He’s certainly not the only one who’s come out against your idea. For example, I am quite strongly opposed to it, because I think it will give us almost no useful information but will create a great deal of ‘disturbance’. But I tend to be rather less confrontational than **Ed** , (or at least less overtly so).
> 
> I really don’t understand your vote here…it seems like it’s based partially on his not liking your idea, with the ‘tipping point’ being that you find his playstyle not to your liking. That’s not necessarily a ‘bad reason’ for a vote at this point in the game, but I think we all want to understand the motivation behind it (at least I do).

I laid out 3 alternatives for a town player who is arguing against my psotion. There were several players who’s arguemtns against my postion I felt jarred with the 3 possibilties for town players that I laid out. I choose **special ed** partly because of the playing style he had adopted (I may’ve equally choosen **peekercpa** in this respect, but that he confounded by expectations whilst observing the last thread was a factor).I must also admit that others had voted for him was also a factor I would like to see one of my prime suspects being forced to face the naming issue.

Anyway I think we can safely assume from the exchange between me and **special ed** that at least one of us is town.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\
**Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/320 "2011-01-18T02:50:11Z")

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> [@These are my own pants](#):
>
> Anyway I think we can safely assume from the exchange between me and **special ed** that at least one of us is town.

Unless of course, you’re both scum, in which case you’d want us to think that at least one of you was town.

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