# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/341 "2011-01-18T08:22:45Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I also won’t be joining you in your “safe” assumptions. Point of clarification… As I’ve already explained that I approach the game with a default vanilla town on everyone, I just want to be clear that I don’t think that is the same sort of assumption. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/342 "2011-01-18T08:33:40Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > I think asking the mod to be removed from the game as a tatical move would be a bridge too far for scum. I must have missed the post where someone accused Ed of strategically asking to be subbed out? A need for leaving a game is irrespective of alignment. Anyone can get busy. Anyone can have something come up unexpectedly. Anyone can have a change of heart. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/343 "2011-01-18T08:45:06Z")
That was an epic read. We don’t have to break the # of posts rule for every game! ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/344 "2011-01-18T08:47:58Z")
Glad it fucking amuses you. /kidding, it’s a joke, see? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/345 "2011-01-18T08:55:31Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I must have missed the post where someone accused Ed of strategically asking to be subbed out? > > A need for leaving a game is irrespective of alignment. Anyone can get busy. Anyone can have something come up unexpectedly. Anyone can have a change of heart. A need for leaving the game sure, but leaving for emotional reasons after garnishing a few votes? I must admit I have been considering myself if that is more likely for a scum or a town player. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/346 "2011-01-18T12:43:46Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Ed, it’s just a misunderstanding. No need to quit. You’d be missed. Thanks, obviously I made the decision before that post, so it couldnt have influenced my decision. I’m not at all offended by it. Everyone is entitled to feel how they wish. However, that said, if my presence detracts from Mahaloth’s game in any way, it’s probably best that I don’t participate. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/347 "2011-01-18T13:03:53Z")
**Ooooooooooooooooooooh Kay.** I’m gonna be over here. Any chance we can open the Bar early? We don’t have to wait for Night, right? I mean, it has to be 5 somewhere in Mafia Land. And I could use a drink. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/348 "2011-01-18T13:13:34Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Thanks, obviously I made the decision before that post, so it couldnt have influenced my decision. > > I’m not at all offended by it. Everyone is entitled to feel how they wish. However, that said, if my presence detracts from Mahaloth’s game in any way, it’s probably best that I don’t participate. I, for one, don’t think you detract. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/349 "2011-01-18T13:23:52Z")
Ok. **FOS Pants** This is the best way I know I can do this. **Pants** : I’m wondering if I’m not giving you too much benefit of the doubt as a Noob. FOS is not a vote, but I want to formally put you “” **on notice**"". I mean I can only allow so much for being Noob. At a certain point in time, if your slip is showing, I need to call it out. A small handful of things I’ve pointed out, and others have pointed out are beginning to rub me the wrong way. **Everyone Else** : I am actively asking for comment on this. ““Meeko is doing the same things again, getting us to stick our neck out for him”” blah blah blah. Yes, I’m asking for a conversation in regards to pants. But frankly, we need to move the ship from these rocks, we might run aground soon. I see safer waters over that way. [Discussing new topics.] ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/350 "2011-01-18T14:29:47Z")
i’ll take **meeko** ’s suggestion and move along but … i’ve been where **ed** is at on this board. matter of fact i think here is the only place i actually asked to be subbed out because of frustration. it seems like the folks here are much more likely to take offense and to “lynch the loud”. my post level has garnered a lot of grief for being distracting and being anti town which leads to my early lynch here. now i freely admit that i can be cryptic at times. that’s just me. i mean if the missus asks me how a new outfit looks on her i certainly don’t say something along the lines of “it makes you look like a fat cow”. it’s probably more along the lines of “i think a different color might be more complimentary to your beautiful skin tones”. so describing **ed** ’s play as “disruptive” i think is just a smudgy way of saying i don’t like his style. **ed** and i play the same game. we stir the pot. we confront and get in people’s grill looking for reactions and responses. and right now we have some dandies. therefore, my vote stands. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/351 "2011-01-18T14:35:13Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Idlethoughts(1): Suburban Plankton Peeker(1): Pleonast Specialed(2): Chronos, ushimi Chronos(1): Redskeezix Pleonast(1): Meeko Ushimi(2): Idle, peeker\*\* ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/352 "2011-01-18T15:31:13Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Yes, I’m asking for a conversation in regards to pants. \ **Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/353 "2011-01-18T16:23:17Z") I have a couple issues with **Pants** ’ play so far. First, his initial premise (that Town players will have “goodie” names and Scum will have “baddie” names) is fundamentally flawed. There is no reason to assume this is the case. Second, his decision “to vote for someone who argued against the connection between names and alignment” is a poorly thought out reason. Without having any clue whether or not his initial premise is correct, this is little better than a random vote. I think that \*\*Pants \*\*is either a new player who hasn’t quite figured out the’ best way’ to play the game here, or he’s trying very hard to come across as a new player who hasn’t quite figured out the ‘best way’ to play the game here. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/354 "2011-01-18T16:32:07Z")
one quick question for **meeko**. just out of curiosity why single out **pants** for individual scrutiny? kind of odd. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/355 "2011-01-18T17:13:27Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > 1. The town needs to choose a lynch target right now; this information could be used. > > 2. Any townie with a Day power needs to choose a target right now; this information could be used. > > 3. Any townie with a Night power will need to choose approximately now (since claims are verboten at Night); this information could be used. > > 4. This information constrains any further claims **ushi** may make right now. > > 5. If **ushi** is lying, this information risks implicating them right now. > > So, then are you advocating that all of the Vanilla Town players claim right now? Rather, I’d advocate that all town players claim right now. So you recognize that claims can have useful information right now? > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > The problem with items 1,2,3, and 5 is that we have no way of evaluating \*\*ushi’s \*\*claim right now, and without knowing whether or not it’s truthful it’s of no use to Town in determining how to vote or how to target. I believe we have power roles who can evaluate claims. And I’ll state again that one does not to be 100% certain of information to make use of it. Mafia is a game of making choices based on weighing missing, partial and uncertain knowledge. > [@These are my own pants](#): > > **vote: special ed** > > In truth I decided a long time ago to vote for someone who argued against the connection between names and alignment as if facing being lynched they will presumably have to claim, including their name at some point. Voting for someone because of a disagreement on tactics is not useful. That kind of disagreement is not connected to players’ alignments. And I say this as someone in favor of mass claims. > [@Meeko](#): > > Wow, **Pleonast.** Skipping rant about my play style… > [@special\_ed](#): > > Mahaloth, sub me out, if you please **ed** , a couple of transparently anti-town votes is no reason to quit. > [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > Although I understand the argument that unprovoked vanilla claims may be considered “bad play” by some, I also understand that some people don’t agree. That is, there is no clear consensus on the matter. > > I think it is a reasonable scum tactic, then, to sieze on my “bad play” and get all high and mighty about how the newbie has hurt Town. Pointing out play one thinks is anti-town is pro-town. Scum might do it, but they’re helping town when they do. Note that I am generally in favor of early claims. But voting **ed** for disagreeing with your tactic is not pro-town. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > not only taking offense at his poking but also the fact that he’s voting for you. No one is voting for **ushi**. (Edit: at this point.) > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > **Vote ushimitsudoki** , just because. And voting for newbies just because is not productive. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I’m not seeing anything else that warrants a vote at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/356 "2011-01-18T18:03:27Z")
Quoth **peeker** : > [@](#): > > but on reread one thing that struck me was somewhere he posted that he wouldn’t vote to lynch someone solely because they had a “baddie” name (paraphrased). all the more what’s the point then if not to establish some benchmark for town. i mean if it doesn’t do town any good then who might it be providing some good. I think you misunderstand the purpose of a name claim. It’s not necessarily so we can just lynch anyone who has an evil-sounding name, because Scum could foil that plan easily. It’s to pin the Scum down. A townie making a claim doesn’t have to think twice about what to claim: For town it’s simple, just tell the truth. A scum, however, needs to put some effort into coming up with lies, and might not have put in that effort yet. Go back and read the Scum board for any old game, and see when it was that the Scum decided on what their fake claims would be: It’s never until a few Days in, both because it takes time to come up with the claims, and because they want to be able to react to circumstances (for instance, a Scum that’s getting heat for PIS might decide on the spur of the moment to claim an investigative role of some sort). An early name claim removes some of that freedom from Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/357 "2011-01-18T18:13:33Z")
Damn, I go to a couple of meetings to start the day and things get all crazy over here. Ed, I enjoy playing with you, hope you stick around. As far as the game goes there have been several weird/bad plays so far, between the actual claims and the general discussion on different types of claims. None of it strikes me as anti-town more just trying to find a way to hunt scum and on Day 1 that can be a tall order. I need to do a little more looking but I don’t see anything worth voting for yet. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/358 "2011-01-18T18:14:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think you misunderstand the purpose of a name claim. It’s not necessarily so we can just lynch anyone who has an evil-sounding name, because Scum could foil that plan easily. It’s to pin the Scum down. A townie making a claim doesn’t have to think twice about what to claim: For town it’s simple, just tell the truth. A scum, however, needs to put some effort into coming up with lies, and might not have put in that effort yet. Go back and read the Scum board for any old game, and see when it was that the Scum decided on what their fake claims would be: It’s never until a few Days in, both because it takes time to come up with the claims, and because they want to be able to react to circumstances (for instance, a Scum that’s getting heat for PIS might decide on the spur of the moment to claim an investigative role of some sort). **An early name claim removes some of that freedom from Scum**. _[bolding mine]_ But does it, in actuality, do this? I mean, I understand the idea, but is it ever actually put into practice? We seem to have this same discussion in every game, and the same people line up on the same side every time, but I’ve never seen an early claim actually happen…so can you say with any certainty that this is actually the case? Or is it all theory? I’m really not meaning to be argumentative at this point, because that’s fruitless. You and I are on opposite sides of the “name claim” debate, and neither is going to change the others’ mind with their arguments. What I’m asking about is actual historical evidence, so we can see what actually happens in the event of an early mass claim. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/359 "2011-01-18T18:26:18Z")
and **chronos** i fully understand what the point is trying to accomplish. but my recent experience has been in games where scum have been provided fake claims. matter of fact in one recent game the mod went so far as to ask the scum team what they wanted to be and then would customize their fake claim. and while i understand the ease in which one can say “well i won’t let a name claim regardless of apparant alignment influence my decision on whether to lynch vote or not” i can also see that not necessarily being universal. or i can see it coming down to all things being equal x and y appear to both be equally scummy but shoot x is named adolph hitler and y is named ghandi. guess 'll vote for hitler. as **ed** has already pointed out in mickey mouse mafia mickey was the scum godfather. in one of the batman games batman was the scum investigator. in random i was the wicked witch of the west and was niller townie. in one of story’s game i was at one point in my comic book career the second baddest baddie of all time and was a town doc/miller. quick question just so i get the feel of where you are coming from. darth vader. is he a goodie or a baddie? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/360 "2011-01-18T18:33:30Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > quick question just so i get the feel of where you are coming from. darth vader. is he a goodie or a baddie? Even better question: Joel Robinson from MST3K…since that identity has already been claimed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=19)