# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/421 "2011-01-19T10:38:24Z")
> [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > Is that what happened? Because if the Queen had balls, she’d be the King. > > I’m not sure why people try to take general statements, go to an extreme absolute, pretend they are equivalent, and then declare victory? This is called a [straw man](http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html) in some circles. It has never won a debate, in fact I hear tell of some rough auditoriums where they’ll shoot a man down jest fer totin’ a bundle of straw. > > Try this then: As a general rule of thumb under non-extraordinary circumstances that don’t strongly compel me to act otherwise, I’m not going to vote against a player who I haven’t heard from. > > I do not find myself in that set of circumstances. > > I’m not going to preface every statement with conditional disclaimers longer than the meat of the statement. When I say something, it means “under normal operating conditions”. This is because when I speak, I speak in English and not in a computer programming language. OK that was an extreme example, but the point stands. If you found Ed scummy, I see no reason to take off your pressure just becaise of a sunstitution. **vote ushi** ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/422 "2011-01-19T10:39:27Z")
NETA I would understand your point if you were advocating against a lynch the lurker move, but not in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/423 "2011-01-19T11:11:04Z")
I could understanding being willing to change your mind after hearing from Scuba. I change my mind all the goddamn time. But being less willing to vote for the same game-person just because the real person changed? Unvoting based on zero added information? Nope, I can’t buy that. **Vote Ushi** FTR, yeah, ‘tell’ in a mafia context usually just refers to alignment tells. A null tell just means that it’s neither indicative of town nor scum. If it doesn’t give any information at all, it’s just noise. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/424 "2011-01-19T12:22:21Z")
I am surprised by all of the heat that C **omeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** is getting compared to almost none for **Red Skeezix** even though he posted the same thing against **Chronos** almost [2 pages earlier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13365065&postcount=280). My ping meter is not going off for either of them, but I do feel that people have just skipped over **Red Skeezix** unfairly for **Cookies**. It also feels like **Ushimisudoki** is being railroaded for rookie mistakes. While I wasn’t confrontational, I definitely made a big one in International Mafia (London Detective suggesting an extreme advantage to scum) and so I guess I’m a little more forgiving. I know I’ll draw **Red Skeezix’s** wrath for holding off my vote, but I’m still not quite sure whose is scum yet. I will say that **Meeko** gave me a big ping for his “[takedown](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13365516&postcount=304)” of **Pleonast** for being confident in his playing style. Apparently being confident equals pompous equals scum? :dubious: And of course **Meeko** was the paragon of humility in that post as well. :rolleyes: And I seem to be addicted to smilies. ☹😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/425 "2011-01-19T13:38:57Z")
\*\* Please check for accuracy. 🙂 Vote Count: Idlethoughts(1): Suburban Peeker(2): Pleonast, ScubaBen ScubaBen(1): Chronos Chronos(1): Redskeezix Pleonast(1): Meeko Ushimi(5): Idle, peeker, Cometothedarkside, Oneandonly, Chipacabra Cometothedarkside(2): Mentalguy, Astral \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/426 "2011-01-19T14:11:45Z")
> [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > Is that what happened? Because if the Queen had balls, she’d be the King. \ And if the Queen married Steve McQueen, she’d be Queen McQueen. \ They’re calling you out rightly on this one, **ushi mitsu** san. If you believe **Ed** ’s role was Scum, the reasoning must apply to the role regardless of subs. On the other hand, I understand the desire to vote someone out of the game for bad play, wordy posting, lynch-the-lurker, etc. Heck, last year I would’ve preemptively voted for **Meeko** or **Zuma** on Day 1 just to keep the post pile to a manageable length. Gripping hand, when have I _ever_ had a good, well-reasoned vote on Day 1? (or 2 or 3 or… aw nuts. It isn’t good practice to play the “poor play style” card, but that’s all I’ve got. One of these years I’ll learn.) (And please call me out if I try to play that card again – I have several copies of it in my hand.) So I’m not too keen on **Idle** or **peeker** for their weak votes on **ushi** ; I’m not too keen on **ushi** but that’s mainly for his play style; and I know too well what it’s like for weak play style to draw a lynch mob. (Cf: Sekhmet Day 3, iirc.) Og, I need a drink. When does the bar open? Who wants to claim Bartender? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/427 "2011-01-19T14:18:22Z")
> [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > lol, umad? nah. just get frustrated at times is all. back in a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/428 "2011-01-19T14:28:16Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > nah. just get frustrated at times is all. > > back in a bit. When come back bring fruit tart. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/429 "2011-01-19T14:54:40Z")
> [@Wolverine](#): > > I will say that **Meeko** gave me a big ping for his “[takedown](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13365516&postcount=304)” of **Pleonast** for being confident in his playing style. Apparently being confident equals pompous equals scum? :dubious: And of course **Meeko** was the paragon of humility in that post as well. :rolleyes: And I seem to be addicted to smilies. ☹😃 Specifically : I started using an Outline format a few games back. If you want to go insane, go and read my earlier Mafia games. I ramble and digress a lot. But I also have a lot to say. I need organization. Only then is there a chance that you guys understand me. [[This is not being pompous, this is fact. You can ask anyone (and Ed especially) about how far I have come in my play. A ways to go still. If that doesn’t do it for you, find the old Haggle games. The last Haggle game we played here contained 10% of my posts board-wide at the time. I am aware that I am a “loud” player. Steps can be made here as well. I think the Outline format is a good tool for me. Not saying it needs to be yours, but it keeps me relatively organized, relatively “quiet”. General : The “takedown” aspect you speak of is actually a pretty tame Wall of Words. [WOW] While they are rare early on, they are common place, especially in the end game. Pleonast rubbed me the wrong way in LoTR [was it?] by claiming brutally early. A statement I made back then, was that he had an air of “I say it, and therefore it is true”. It probably doesn’t help my Ego that someone in the spoiled board commented that I had the best point of the game at that time. Everyone was stunned that I had it. **Pleonast knows what he is doing.** I do not like it, and frankly, he needs to be held to his words. If Pleonast hand waved my vote on him, then I take that to mean he’s relatively ok with it. I’m fine with it as it is too. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/430 "2011-01-19T15:06:37Z")
That’s cool. International Mafia was my first game online, so your playing style is new to me. Pleo was being consistent with his arguments from that game so it seemed that you just jumped on him for having a view on how to play the game that’s different from yours. I had no idea where “pompous” came from. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/431 "2011-01-19T15:37:56Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I’d appreciate it if we could continue to try and dial back the rhetoric. There still seems to be room for more civility and less hostility. > > I happen to agree with most of peeker’s points criticisms regarding ushi, and I have (game-related) problems with many of ushi’s posts in general. However, I’m not really to keen on wading into what still appears to be a minefield. otie dotie **cooks**. kinder and gentler, i get it. > [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > There is some reasoning here I don’t follow: > > For example, take the “name claim may reveal power role” - this is untrue. I have a very cool, very popular hero name. Yet, I am vanilla. I assume there are other vanilla townies with similarly cool/well-known hero names, so we (meaning vanilla townies with cool names) know “cool name==power role” doesn’t hold up. Therefore I assume people advancing this argument are _not_ vanilla townies with cool names. > > Secondly, take the “canon claim may limit tie Town down”. Assuming that Idle Thoughts is not lying, my hero name comes from a much much larger canon. We only have 18 players - so even if Idle Thoughts is lying and comes from the same canon I do, it is a canon well large enough to handle 18 players. If he isn’t lying, there are at least 2 canons in play and likely more - again, more than enough options for the number of players. > > I don’t see, then, how a canon claim limits anything, especially since hero name “well-knowness” alone is not indicative of any role. > > I won’t say that I think a claim of any sort is necessarily the right move at this point, but I will say that I am suspicious of arguments assuming there is some name==role relationship when some players must know there is no such such relationship. this is the post that really drives me up the wall. and this is my paraphrasing in my mind so if others get it different i won’t be surprised. quoth **sushi** i am a good guy in cannon and i am vanilla. but, a claim is not necessary at this point because it doesn’t mean squat. unquoth **sashimi** disconnect occurs here. btw, **scuba** here are your fruit tarts. i got a variety because i didn’t know what you favorite might be. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/432 "2011-01-19T15:52:49Z")
neta: they are probably more characterized as empanadas, however. [oog] couldn’t sleep the other weekend. peekkid #4 gets up around 5 a.m because she can’t sleep either. we decide to make breakfast empanadas. peach, apple, blueberry and blackberry and various combos thereof. there is something to be said about eating fresh baked pastry with your teenage daughter as the sun rises just shooting the breeze.[/oog] ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/433 "2011-01-19T16:14:09Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Does this mean we’ve going to start having to decipher those funny pronouns again? What is this supposed to mean? > [@Mahaloth](#): > > **ScubaBen is replacing SpecialEd** > Welcome Scuba! Ok, I think I see what’s going on here. **Plankton** , do you want to explain how you knew **Scuba** would be replacing **ed** 90 minutes before the moderator made the announcement? I think the moderator informed the scum board first. **unvote peekercpa** **vote Suburban Plankton** > [@Meeko](#): > > A statement I made back then, was that he had an air of “I say it, and therefore it is true”. There’s really nothing to discuss. You interpret my posting style a certain way. What can I say to change that? I play the way I play; you read posts the way you do. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ About **ushi** , I don’t find their play especially helpful, but I don’t feel liking picking nits when things are sore. Collectively, we make it hard for newbies, because they don’t follow our implicit conventions. **ushi** has especially rubbed veterans’ fur the wrong way. I don’t see anything indicating they are scum rather than a clumsy newbie. I don’t think lynching them on Day One is helpful; even if they’re scum, we can be fairly sure there is more than one. That said, **ushi** needs to tone things down. It’s useful to challenge how we play, but it’s not helpful to be pejorative about it. It clouds minds instead of changes them. It’s not easy–I’ve been trying to change how we play, yet even my neutral, non-insulting arguments provoke occasional rants. That’s what it means to have a thick skin. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/434 "2011-01-19T16:21:27Z")
Pleo (bleaching votes) - > [@Pleonast](#): > > What is this supposed to mean? > > Ok, I think I see what’s going on here. **Plankton** , do you want to explain how you knew **Scuba** would be replacing **ed** 90 minutes before the moderator made the announcement? > > I think the moderator informed the scum board first. > **unvote peekercpa** > **vote Suburban Plankton** Can you explain this a little better? I don’t understand it. What is your interpretation of the “funny pronoun” comment that leads you to believe that it indicates that **Plankton** knew about the replacement before the moderator announced it? Because if that’s so, it’s definitely something to discuss… and obviously, has certain unpleasant implications for **ScubaEd** as well. > [@](#): > > About **ushi** , I don’t find their play especially helpful, but I don’t feel liking picking nits when things are sore. Collectively, we make it hard for newbies, because they don’t follow our implicit conventions. **ushi** has especially rubbed veterans’ fur the wrong way. I don’t see anything indicating they are scum rather than a clumsy newbie. I don’t think lynching them on Day One is helpful; even if they’re scum, we can be fairly sure there is more than one. I agree with this statement from Pleonast in total. I am extremely uncomfortable with this turn of events. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/435 "2011-01-19T16:32:22Z")
If you’re right, then the only reason I can think that scumn would have been told first, is if Ed/Scuba is on the scum team. This is a lead that needs pursuing. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/436 "2011-01-19T16:33:29Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > If you’re right, then the only reason I can think that scumn would have been told first, is if Ed/Scuba is on the scum team. > > This is a lead that needs pursuing. I was reading the same on my Ipod, figured I had to break out my PC to dig in to it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/437 "2011-01-19T16:39:05Z")
**Plankton** , in reference to **ed** bowing out, makes a strange comment about deciphering funny pronouns. I couldn’t figure out what he could mean by that. Ninety minutes later, the moderator announces that **Scuba\_Ben** , our wet Spivak-pronoun-user would be replacing **ed**. Then it clicked to me: **Plankton** was making a reference to that replacement. How could he know? My initial thought is that the moderator informed the scum on their secret board before they told us. And now that you mention it, it would make sense for the moderator to do that because both **Plankton** and **Scuba/Ed** are scum. It also occurs to me that they could both be masons, if the masons have a secret board, too. In any case, that’s where my vote is until I hear a good explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/438 "2011-01-19T16:42:52Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I think the moderator informed the scum board first. > There’s really nothing to discuss. You interpret my posting style a certain way. What can I say to change that? I play the way I play; you read posts the way you do. Snipped. You have outstanding questions on this. I don’t follow your logic either, Pleonast. And **NOTED** on the smudge here. You upgrade yours to “play” and downgrade mine to “read”. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/439 "2011-01-19T16:50:05Z")
rut roh. the 10 percent rears its ugly head. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/440 "2011-01-19T17:05:46Z")
\*\* Vote Count: Idlethoughts(1): Suburban Peeker(1): ScubaBen ScubaBen(1): Chronos Chronos(1): Redskeezix Pleonast(1): Meeko Ushimi(5): Idle, peeker, Cometothedarkside, Oneandonly, Chipacabra Cometothedarkside(2): Mentalguy, Astral Suburbanplankton(1): Pleonast\*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=23)