# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/601 "2011-01-22T18:15:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, I guess I’ll be the first to state the obvious: A last-minute vote shift onto someone we now know to have been Town looks suspicious for the person being switched away from. > > **Vote Ushi** I agree, very suspcious. **Ushi** is a prime suspect, naturally some suspicion must fall on those who shifted the vote. Now unfortunately for me I was a bit of an enabler in that respect so my arguments, at the time though I simply suspected **Oredigger** more and felt that any other vote at that stage. My alternative was to either abstain or to effectively abstain by casting a vote against soemone who was not in danger of being lynched. At this stage I felt **Pleonast’s** vote was extremely suspect. **Mental guy** gave better reasons, but his vote was the decisive vote, so he must be regarded with suspicion also. Out of all **Pleonast’s** behaviour was the most suspcious, though I’m slightly torn as if he is scum then surely **ushi** is also by dint of the last minute voting. At the moment I’m going with **Pleonast**. **vote Pleonast** ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/602 "2011-01-22T19:14:40Z")
All of the last minute voting and unvoting certainly needs more analysis and discussion, but there was another vote earlier in the Day that bugs me. In Post 387, \*\*ushi \*\*unvotes **Scuba\_Ben**. This goes without comment until \*\*Chipacabra’s \*\*post 415 > [@Chipacabra](#): > > If you thought that special ed was scum for reasons unrelated to personal reasons, how could you possibly not still think that scuba is scum? He can’t have changed roles. This does not sit right with me. This is all fine and good. What bothers me is that \*\*Chip \*\*does not vote in this post…but after Post 417 > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > For whatever reason I didn’t connect that statement from ushi with the unvote. I attributed the statement to earlier general discussion of “Lynch the Lurker”. I agree that smacks of a big inconsistency on ushi’s part. > > **Unvote Chronos** > **Vote ushimitsudoki** and Post 421 > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > OK that was an extreme example, but the point stands. If you found Ed scummy, I see no reason to take off your pressure just becaise of a sunstitution. > > **vote ushi** _ **then** _ \*\*Chip \*\*comes back and votes in Post 423 > [@Chipacabra](#): > > I could understanding being willing to change your mind after hearing from Scuba. I change my mind all the goddamn time. But being less willing to vote for the same game-person just because the real person changed? Unvoting based on zero added information? Nope, I can’t buy that. > > **Vote Ushi** When \*\*Chip \*\*originally brought up the issue of \*\*ushi’s \*\*unvote, there were 4 players tied with 2 votes. By the time he voted only 8 Posts later, \*\*ushi \*\*had 5 votes, with \*\*peeker \*\*and \*\*cookies \*\*tied for second with 2, and it looked like \*\*ushi \*\*was cruising toward a lynch until all of the last minute action. A bit later in the Day he has this to say > [@Chipacabra](#): > > Keep in mind, the votes on ushi are Day one votes. They’re not exactly rock solid cases by nature. > > I held off on my vote until I heard his explanation for unvoting. His explanation didn’t satisfy me, hence the vote. I’m just slightly more suspicious of him than my next candidate. But that’s not quite the way it happened. He didn’t vote for \*\*ushi \*\*until 2 other people had picked up on his suggestion and gone ahead of him. It seems like \*\*Chip \*\*was trying to float an idea and then wait to see if anyone would bite before he actually placed a vote. Other non-fluff comments by Chip on Day 1 [174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13358196&postcount=174) - doesn’t usually like mass claims, but sometimes they’re good [227](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13361678&postcount=227) - we’re getting good participation [306](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13365544&postcount=306) - we’re still getting good participation [310](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13365585&postcount=310) - FOS \*\*Pleonast \*\*for his vote on **peeker** [565](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13377107&postcount=565) - attacks \*\*Pleonast \*\*for his late vote switch to **Oredigger** **vote Chipacabra** for his “start a bandwagon and then wait for it to get moving before jumping on” vote, and ‘playing it safe’ the rest of the Day. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/603 "2011-01-22T19:38:07Z")
Apparently I slept well and felt safe during the Night… Anyway…I’m of a strong(er) mind (now, more than ever) that Ushimi is scum and that Pleonast is his scumbuddy who rushed to save him from a lynch yesterDay. **Vote Pleonast** (however, I’m also willing to vote **Ushimi** ) ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/604 "2011-01-22T19:42:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, not all _that_ fast. I’ve been thinking about it since Nightfall; it’s just that I couldn’t say anything about it until now. And as for “casting votes into this sample”, right now I’m looking at a sample of one: If **Ushi** comes up Scum, then it’s worth looking at the people who shifted the vote to **Oredigger** , but if he comes up Town, then it probably doesn’t say anything about those people. See, I’m of the opposite mind. I figure if we look at those who switched with last minute votes first and hit paydirt, then chances are **Ushimi** could be scum, too. Whereas even if **Ushimi** is lynched today and turns out to be Town, people who voted for him could still be scum. Makes more sense in my own mind but not sure it comes across as making more sense to anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/605 "2011-01-22T19:52:20Z")
> [@](#): > > See, I’m of the opposite mind. I figure if we look at those who switched with last minute votes first and hit paydirt, then chances are Ushimi could be scum, too. > Whereas even if Ushimi is lynched today and turns out to be Town, people who voted for him could still be scum. > > Makes more sense in my own mind but not sure it comes across as making more sense to anyone else. If **Ushi** turns up Town, then sure, people who voted away from him (I assume that’s what you meant by voting for him) _could_ be Scum, but only in the same sense that anyone at all could be. By the same token, even if the vote shift was mostly Town-driven, **Ushi** could also still be Scum. There’d be no real evidence either way, in that case. My argument for going after **Ushi** first, before the people who shifted the vote, is that there were enough people voting **Oredigger** , unvoting **ushi** , or both, that just by the numbers, they can’t _all_ have been Scum. In other words, if what happened yesterDay evening was that Scum collaborated to save their Scum-buddy, then lynching **ushi** is certain to get is Scum, whereas lynching one of the vote-shifters is not certain, since we might get one of the innocent townies who were just caught along for the ride. ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/606 "2011-01-22T19:54:11Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > But that’s not quite the way it happened. He didn’t vote for \*\*ushi \*\*until 2 other people had picked up on his suggestion and gone ahead of him. It seems like \*\*Chip \*\*was trying to float an idea and then wait to see if anyone would bite before he actually placed a vote. > . If you’re reading malicious intent into the timing of when I happen to log on with the time to post, I don’t know what to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/607 "2011-01-22T20:14:30Z")
Well, I’m fine with voting for either. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/608 "2011-01-22T20:27:48Z")
> [@Chipacabra](#): > > If you’re reading malicious intent into the timing of when I happen to log on with the time to post, I don’t know what to tell you. It has nothing to do with “when you log on with time to post”. It’s that you posted that you were suspicious of **ushi** , but didn’t vote, then after two other people ‘followed your lead’ you then joined them. There was only a 2 hour span between your first and second posts there, and the only posts in between were saying “good point **Chip** , I agree”. You seemed to be waiting for validation before sticking your neck out and voting. That and the fact that you avoided posting anything else all Day that might be the least bit controversial, or tie you down to any particular point of view at all. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/609 "2011-01-22T20:36:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, I guess I’ll be the first to state the obvious: A last-minute vote shift onto someone we now know to have been Town looks suspicious for the person being switched away from. > > **Vote Ushi** > [@Chronos](#): > > If **Ushi** turns up Town, then sure, people who voted away from him (I assume that’s what you meant by voting for him) _could_ be Scum, but only in the same sense that anyone at all could be. By the same token, even if the vote shift was mostly Town-driven, **Ushi** could also still be Scum. There’d be no real evidence either way, in that case. My argument for going after **Ushi** first, before the people who shifted the vote, is that there were enough people voting **Oredigger** , unvoting **ushi** , or both, that just by the numbers, they can’t _all_ have been Scum. In other words, if what happened yesterDay evening was that Scum collaborated to save their Scum-buddy, then lynching **ushi** is certain to get is Scum, whereas lynching one of the vote-shifters is not certain, since we might get one of the innocent townies who were just caught along for the ride. _[underlining mine]_ **Chronos** , Twice you have talked about people unvoting **ushi** , but if you look at the votes, you will see that didn’t actually happen anywhere near the end of the day. The only person who unvoted \*\*ushi \*\*at any point was **Idle** , who had voted for him based on his interaction with **Ed** , then unvoted him to vote for me because of my supposed PIS regarding **Scuba\_Ben** , and then re-voted \*\*ushi \*\*later on. There may have been a concerted effort to vote _for **Oredigger** _, but there was no effort to vote _away from **ushi** _. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/610 "2011-01-22T21:21:58Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Ushimi(1): Chronos Pleonast(2): Thesearemypants, Idle Chipacabra(1): Suburban \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/611 "2011-01-22T23:21:31Z")
I went back and read every single one of Peeker’s 65ish posts. My goal was to maybe figure out why scum targeted him, which might help figure out who the scum are. In the interest of keeping this post reasonable, I’ve majorly snipped most of the Peeker quotes I use. In all cases, I’ve directly linked to the post so you can check out what I’ve removed. He was antagonistic towards Idle, Pleo, and Ed in some of his posts, but doesn’t really call them out in any substantial way (in my opinion). Lots of questions, lots of statements, lots of fluff, not a lot of substance. His first vote was on Ushimi: > [@peekercpa](#): > > i’m with **idle** on this one. either that was over the top (seriously not in the spirit of the game) or you are doing a wonderful job of scum having a meltdown. > > **vote sushi**. > > i mean i don’t want to run any newbs off and typically go out of my way to give them extra lattitude but i don’t need that shit. unless, and this is the big unless, it was just some type of time of the month harmone induced fly off the handleness or it’s some type of act. if its the former take a fracking chill pill. if it’s the latter channel someone like **winnie the pooh** next time. > > seriousy **sushi** did your s.o. make you sleep on the couch or something? That’s hardly a vote that scum would be concerned with. Peeker’s vote comes down to “I don’t like how you’re playing.” I doubt scum would worry about that kind of thinking leading to a major train on Ushi later in the game, especially as he’s already survived Day 1 with better votes on him. After this vote, he casts a ton of aspersions on pants. I’ve snipped a ton of his post just to give you the flavor of it: > [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > well my post 297 sums up my feelings. i don’t think any of his suggestions have merit from a town perspective. and even he kind of waffles back and forth. He then immediately questions other people who talk about pants: > [@peekercpa](#): > > one quick question for **meeko**. just out of curiosity why single out **pants** for individual scrutiny? > > kind of odd. Interestingly enough, he’s defending pants against Meeko a mere two posts after singling him out himself. Again, I doubt a scummy Pants would be too concerned with offing Peeker before he could revisit this argument. He says a ton of stuff like this: > [@peekercpa](#): > > i mean **idle** and **pleo** seem to want to pick their boogers and just smear them on the underside of the table. **pants** seems to want to roll the fucker up and fling it across the table at someone. but as i said before, shit he does have the strength of his convictions and i give him cred for that. even though i think he is full of poo along with **idle** and **pleo**. but 31 flavors my friends, 31 flavors. And then he returns to attacking Ushi, both in the following post and several after: > [@peekercpa](#): > > and i understand the other pillar of your vote being your personal feelings about another player. poor play, very poor play. i mean when two of the tripod are gone you are left riding a unicycle. yep, the vote on unicycly man will stand. His last substantial post is on Ushi: > [@peekercpa](#): > > well we have inconsistencies about positions (within the same stinking post). > > we’ve got an overblown reaction to confrontation (if it even rose to that level). > > we’ve got a vote switch based merely on a substitution - and to some extent if he would have just come out and said that his original vote was because he had a sore ass then he would look even worse. > > and now no fracking vote - based on **maha** ’s most recent update. > > so yeh, for Day 1 it’s better than a lot of cases. In re-reading his posts, none of them gave me a “power” vibe. He comes out strong against Ushi, but so do a lot of other people. Killing Peeker would hardly silence those who wanted Ushi lynched yesterday. He gets into tiffs with Pleo and Idle and Pants, but never to the point of voting for any of them. Ultimately, I can’t figure out why scum would vote for Peeker. In LOTR mafia when I was scum, I loved having Peeker on the town side. When I was a sure lynch, Peeker _almost_ managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by getting his town butt lynched instead. In the absence of a power vibe or lynch argument that could gather a ton of steam, I just don’t see it. There are a couple of potential conclusions I can draw from this: 1. Scum had no clear kill target and selected one at random. 2. Scum are looking for a specific target to kill, and suspected Peeker might be (one of) their target(s). 3. They got a “power” vibe from Peeker. 4. They wanted to protect a scummy Ushi. 5. They wanted to cast doubt on a town Ushi. 6. A misdirector successfully redirected onto Peeker. 7. Something obvious I’m missing. Sadly, this doesn’t get me closer to catching scum. However, I think it’s a worthwhile exercise to consider why scum might have picked their targets. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/612 "2011-01-22T23:47:59Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Apparently I slept well and felt safe during the Night… Is this to imply that you were protected last night? Your message isn’t 100% clear; did you receive that message from Mahaloth? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/613 "2011-01-23T00:48:25Z")
I did. No idea if it meant I was protected or not. But what I say is pretty much verbatim. ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/614 "2011-01-23T05:45:35Z")
At this point, I have a few new pings: 1. **Pleonast** > [@Pleonast](#): > > You know, I’m going to catch some heat for this, but I think votes based solely on self-preservation are anti-town. > **unvote Idle Thoughts** > **vote Oredigger77** > Note to **ushi** , if you switch your vote to **Ore** , I will switch my vote to you for the same reason. I simply don’t see how anyone could think this, especially under the circumstances. 1. **Chronos** For talking about people “shifting away” or “unvoting” me, when no one did any such thing. It might be an honest ambiguous or mistaken statement, but it there are very different insinuations and implications. Furthermore, on Day One it seemed to me that both these players were very much in-tune with my thinking (that is I generally agreed with the analysis and arguments offered by them), so to pop out such a radical difference from my thinking here really strikes me. 1. **Idle Thoughts** I don’t follow the argument that Pleonast is somehow trying to save me. Pleonast clearly says he will change his vote if I do, and I’ve clearly asked for my vote to be changed **if possible** by proxy if it saves my skin. In other words, **Pleonast** established that he’s going to nullify my proposed proxy vote switch to save my own butt. All that doesn’t add up, I’d say. Not quite ready to vote yet, but combined with my previous two suspicions on **cometothedarkside** and **Chipacabra** , that’s the pool I’m looking at the closest. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/615 "2011-01-23T05:50:48Z")
Big surprise retirement party for my mom today, 4 hour round-trip drive to get there and back on only 4 hours of sleep last “night” after my shift. Just got home. Sleeping now. Mafia tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/616 "2011-01-23T13:41:39Z")
Good morning! I’ll have a vegetable omelet, egg white only, and coffee with nonfat milk. And sad to see you go, **peeker**. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > This is what I have, but I don’t guarantee it’s accuracy: > {snippage} > > Oredigger77 (7): storyteller0910 (504), Wolverine (511), Astral Rejection (522), Scuba\_Ben (524), These are my own pants (546), Pleonast (553), MentalGuy (555) I was convinced by **storyteller** and **Astral Rejection** ’s posts into looking at **Oredigger** and hopping on the bandwagon. At the moment, I’m inclined to suspect storyteller more than Astral. I’ll go back and review both of their late-Day posts on Oredigger. **Plankton** going after **Chipacabra** is interesting too. **Idle** : Any particular reason you started the Day by claiming to have been possibly protected? Everybody else: Did anybody get the same or a similar message as Idle? FWIW, I would normally expect a Doc role in a game like this. OTTOMH, only International Mafia didn’t have a protective role in the Doper games that I recall. So there’s only a small change in information going from “Doc role expected” to “Doc role confirmed.” Which says nothing about who the Doc is, and I wouldn’t want the Doc to reveal themself too soon. Other thought. At the moment, I’ll accept **ushimi** ’s claim of VT to be as good as any VT claim. I don’t have any reason Today to go after him yet. TLDR: I feel like I got suckered in by the late-Day effort on Oredigger. We have a Doc about, no big surprise there. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/617 "2011-01-23T15:49:07Z")
bah, humbug. GO TOWN. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/618 "2011-01-23T16:41:17Z")
1. **Pleonast** , can you explain for the record _why_ you consider votes based purely on self-preservation to be anti-Town? 2. While I am obviously disappointed about the outcome, I stand by the case I made on **Oredigger**. **Scuba\_Ben’s** early attempts to distance himself - “oh, I guess I was hoodwinked into voting, because _now_ I see that it was a bad thing” - are post hoc reasoning of the worst sort at best. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/619 "2011-01-23T16:41:43Z")
So, I for one, can’t believe the speed, that is by number of posts, that we lost OreDigger. By my count, the entire vote shift towards him started after the vote count at 502. This is going to be a long one. If Meeko is saying that, you know it’s true. * * * \*\*Story \*\*starts the wagon at 504. He discounts Oredigger’s statement by invoking it’s day one status. This starts to be opportunistic to me. All comments made on day 1 can receive the same treatment. This turns out to be a weasel treatment (reaching ?) to Digger’s statement. Story continues throwing in some personal analysis, that starts down the same path as Chronos’ voting program. Also, or our old friend “Scum wouldn’t do that” shows up - inverted. Somehow, Only scum would do that shows up. Out side of P.I.S. [which is self evident], I’m not sure how Only Scum would say that would work. Story continues to suggest Other voting targets, but ends up voting Oredigger. One wondders if the other targets weren’t scum mates. Story also makes a comment that Digger withheld a Day 1 vote. Aren’t all Day one votes a “Hold your nose” vote? I mean, yes, rare games have PIS on Day 1, but for the most part, by definition, you have limited info, and must JUSTIFY a vote based on it. Perhaps Oredigger was waiting to present his case better, or perhaps he was looking for something else to happen, to change and or confirm his suspiscion. * * * **Wolverine** Unvotes Story [Surprising] at 509. The unvote from Story has no justification. At 511, Wolverine votes Digger, after Story did, and mentions now that he is best friends with Story [That story has a good lead] and he tries to offer this up after the “Me Too” vote. ## Nothing else here. It would seem you can hang yourself on saying too much, or too little. **Astral** Immediately suggests that a Me Too vote is comming, but instead of hanging his vote on Story, he will hang it on Wolverine. And so, the Barrel of Monkeys begins. Interesting though, that Astral doesn’t quote Wolverine. Astral puts up a good defense of of switching off of Scuba, given that Ed subbed out. Good Defense here, and it is so good it scares me. That is, I can’t dispute it, so if Scum use it, it would he harder to figure out. Astral then puts up a quote from Story, that I basically already addressed above. More of the Me Too that we knew was coming, and as I see it, more defending of Storytellers “points” that I, to put it lightly, do not agree with. Then, a post commenting that Digger just said “Nothing”. I think the net result of calling another post “Nothing” makes the call out post (or part of the post) Nothing. As far as I can tell, the next is STILL on the “Strange Pronouns” “”" case “”". I think the entire issue revolves around generic inside information – not from same scum in the same game, but from our close knit group of 50 or so of us. I mean, it just seems to be over reaching on an idiocyncracy of the Player, and not his role. In a farily recent previous game\*, after the game ended, I read the scum boards, and found it the interpretations of my posts to be interesting. I was a false positive to some scum looking through posts. I made a joke or an offhand comment, and scum nearly killed me becauase of it. All of that to say, I’m not sure this lead ever had legs, on Day 1, or on day 100. In hindsight, seems way overworked. - MY guess would be in the past year / year and a half. More House of cards posting: Astral essentially makes a post supported by Digger being Scum, As Digger is now town, this post becomes nothing as well. And then, we are at the end of Astral’s. Where Again, a now deflated post is evident. Comments on Digger being full of nothing, that have now, also become Nothing. A. This is the Third vote on Digger. Make with that what you will. B. Astral made comments about Wolverine, yet went back to Story and Digger. I wonder if this wasn’t done to trap a Town Wolverine that a Scum Astral could point to, if and when need. * * * \*\* Scuba Ben\*\* ATTEMPTS to essentially WOW Digger to comment on his nothingness. Yet, Nothingness times Nothingness is Nothingness. Outside of the WOW, we have A Scuba Basically speaking for Wolverine, trying to Upgrade Wolf’s “Me too” into a “I am right there beside you” vote. Ben also points out that the wagons have now started, with the implication that UShimi or Digger will hang. I wonder the motivation for this. Take the heat off of that information by asking what PIS is. [I would have thought that Ben already knew this.] Also, is he planting seeds for a Mental Guy wagon? Why would you mention the Double E brothers ? * * * \*\* Pants\*\* gets on the wagon next, and wow. Pants somehow assumes that he only has two people to vote for, Ignoring the 15-20 or so other candidates. ## But, to be fair he said he wanted to make his vote ““count””. He gets his vote counted, just as much as anyone else [Including mine] – Yet at the same time, he is "wary of castign [sic] a meangingless vote " So, he wants his vote to ““count”” but he thinks it is meaningless. **Pleonast** comes in and more or less makes the most opportunistic vote of the game. * * * **Mental** comes in and does a Me Three * * * Ok, So, we have 7 votes on Digger. Immediately, I am pingged by some players more than others. Pleo and Pants, Astral and Ben. I could narrow it down from here, but I think the day is still young. Something could prove me wrong. Suffice to say, I think I just named scum in that short list. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/620 "2011-01-23T16:54:08Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > I have to admit I don’t know who to vote for. I’m not convinced **ushimi** is scum, I would’ve thought someone playing sucm would be a bit more tentative, thoguh his switch once **special ed** was subbed was illogical. > > Right now I have the connundrum, at this late stage do I make my vote count? In which case the choice is only **Oredigger** or **ushimi** Right now I think the case against **Oredigger** is stronger, simply from the inconsistency pointed out in his claim. > > I’m wary of castign a meangingless vote. **Pants** : I think this is the best way to ask you. Apparently, I misread your quote above in my longer post above mine. \*\*Why do you feel pressure to have your vote count? Why did you eliminate all other options [apparently] so that you only had a 50-50 shot at voting? Why did you say you wanted to make your vote count, but then immediately pull it back with “meaningless” ? \*\* You mention in this same post that you think scum have to, or at least should, play " a bit more tentative." \*\*How do you reconcile " tenative " with making your vote count AND fearing casting a meaningless vote? \*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=32)