# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/741 "2011-01-27T07:18:08Z")
> [@Wolverine](#): > > And that extra Kill is handy. Scum will be preoccupied with her which should free up the other Town power roles. Plus, even if she turns scum, she will have to try to follow Town’s kill suggestion or fear exposing herself. The extra Kill seems like 75% win and 25% danger. It’s true she might keep the scum occupied. Unless she’s scum. Or unless they don’t worry about it, because we’re telling her not to kill. Or they don’t worry about it because her target is town. It’s true if she turns scum, she’ll still have to do what we say. Unless she only has the one kill, and it’s the kill that triggers her faction. In that case, she doesn’t have to do much of anything except not get killed. I’m not 100% sure where your numbers come from. She seems far more likely to hit town than scum at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/742 "2011-01-27T08:40:36Z")
OK, so I probably won’t be on again before Dusk. I need to decide whom to vote for now, and I don’t have enough information. But at least part of why I don’t have enough information is **Pleonast** ’s half-assed reveal, and his not coming back to explain himself. So that’s a natural enough way to start. **Vote Pleonast** On the off chance that he comes back sometime before Nightfall with a good account of himself, and I’m on again in time to see it, I might take that back (and presumably go back to voting for **ushi** ), but like I said, that’s an off chance. ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/743 "2011-01-27T09:10:06Z")
Oof, somehow I got it in my head that there was one more day in the Day. I think I lost a day somewhere, my schedule’s all fouled up lately. I really wanted to see what Pleo has to say for himself, but time’s running out. Throwing out that reveal without any sort of claim or followup can’t slide. **Vote Pleonast** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/744 "2011-01-27T09:16:28Z")
Being on a short leash and all, it would be nice if there was some sort of consensus of what I should do Tonight if I’m not lynched, and there is no strategy at Night. If there are multiple equally sized factions with opinions about what I should do, I’m not going to be able to make everyone happy, and whichever faction(s) I’d act contrary to is/are probably going to come after me with torches and pitchforks. I’m awake for a few more hours, then I’ll likely be catching some zzzz’s until about 11:00am Pacific tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/745 "2011-01-27T09:23:36Z")
I want to see a full claim from Pleo. If he is a town power role then trying to get the lynch off himself makes sense, but magic bagging Cookies role is not a great way to do this. If the post had also included a full claim then it would have sat better with me. That said, I would prefer to see a claim from Pleo in time for reactions before day end. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/746 "2011-01-27T09:27:32Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > It’s true she might keep the scum occupied. Unless she’s scum. Or unless they don’t worry about it, because we’re telling her not to kill. Or they don’t worry about it because her target is town. > > It’s true if she turns scum, she’ll still have to do what we say. Unless she only has the one kill, and it’s the kill that triggers her faction. In that case, she doesn’t have to do much of anything except not get killed. > > I’m not 100% sure where your numbers come from. She seems far more likely to hit town than scum at this point. My numbers come from out of my ass. :eek: I just think that there is a greater advantage with Town directing her Kill regardless of her affiliation. I put that number at 3:1 but who knows. I’ve been suspicious of Pleonast since the first Day, but I’m still going to hold off voting until I hear a full claim from him. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/747 "2011-01-27T13:42:14Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Ushimi(1): Chronos, Pleonast(7): Thesearemypants, Idle, Oneandonly, Meeko, Cometothedarkside, Chronos, Chipacabra Chipacabra(2): Suburban, Mentalguy Wolverine(1): Astral Idle(1): Pleonast Mentalguy(1): Redskeezix Cometothedarkside(1): Ushimi Day ends in 6 hours and 15 minutes. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/748 "2011-01-27T14:56:44Z")
So Pleonast claims a power role, and as a result gets _more_ votes? Independent of any other arguments against him, can one of the late voters for Pleonast explain why a partial claim is, in and of itself, Scummy? ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/749 "2011-01-27T15:58:04Z")
While I am suspicious of Pleo, I have seen him make a soft claim in a game before and then never actually reveal his full role even when he was about to be lynched. In that game, he was the town doctor. I think that is poor play on his part, but the fact that he is doing it here does not make me any more or less inclined to think of him as scum. I have no problem with a Pleo lynch, but I will keep my vote where it is. Cookies, while I think you have to ultimately make the decision of who and when to kill, I think a decent target would be Ushimi. While I have generally felt that he was probably town, he is taking quite a bit of heat, and a reveal of his alignment would allow a bit better analysis of the Oredigger wagon at the end of Day 1. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/750 "2011-01-27T16:36:16Z")
After \*\*Pleonast’s \*\*claim, there were three people who unvoted **ushi** , but didn’t make a ‘replacement’ vote. I’m curious as to why. As far as I can tell, none of the information that has been revealed by either \*\*Pleo \*\*or \*\*Cookies \*\*has anything whatsoever to do with **ushi** …so if you thought he was Scum before the reveal, why did you suddenly think he wasn’t Scum afterwards? Two of those people have since voted for **Pleonast** , but that doesn’t explain the sudden change of heart they had on **ushi** to begin with. I don’t know if it’s ‘Scummy play’ or just ‘bad play’…but I generally don’t unvote someone unless I either think someone else is a better target, or new information makes me decide the person is probably not Scum. In this case, there apparently wasn’t a better target (because they didn’t vote for someone else), and I don’t see any evidence that related to \*\*ushi \*\*whatsoever that would change anyone’s opinion of him. So I’m wondering what the reasoning was. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/751 "2011-01-27T16:38:19Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > \*\*Vote Count: > > Ushimi(1): Chronos, > > Pleonast(7): Thesearemypants, Idle, Oneandonly, Meeko, Cometothedarkside, Chronos, Chipacabra > > Chipacabra(2): Suburban, Mentalguy > > Wolverine(1): Astral > > Idle(1): Pleonast > > Mentalguy(1): Redskeezix > > Cometothedarkside(1): Ushimi > > Day ends in 6 hours and 15 minutes. > \*\* **Mahaloth, you still have Chronos voting twice (ushi and Pleo). He unvoted ushi in Post 723** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/752 "2011-01-27T17:17:09Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Pleonast(7): Thesearemypants, Idle, Oneandonly, Meeko, Cometothedarkside, Chronos, Chipacabra Chipacabra(2): Suburban, Mentalguy Wolverine(1): Astral Idle(1): Pleonast Mentalguy(1): Redskeezix Cometothedarkside(1): Ushimi Night falls in 2 hours and 45 minutes(or so). \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/753 "2011-01-27T17:21:48Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > After \*\*Pleonast’s \*\*claim, there were three people who unvoted **ushi** , but didn’t make a ‘replacement’ vote. I’m curious as to why. As far as I can tell, none of the information that has been revealed by either \*\*Pleo \*\*or \*\*Cookies \*\*has anything whatsoever to do with **ushi** …so if you thought he was Scum before the reveal, why did you suddenly think he wasn’t Scum afterwards? > > Two of those people have since voted for **Pleonast** , but that doesn’t explain the sudden change of heart they had on **ushi** to begin with. If Pleonast is a Town power role, than his vote for Oredigger was not scum motivated. With no scum motivation to vote to save Ushi, it means that Ushi is not scum, hence why I removed my vote (modus tollens). In case I was away from the game for before it ended, I didn’t want to keep my vote on Ushi if Pleonast convincingly claimed some town power role. However, since we haven’t heard back from Pleonast, it’s looking more like Pleo is scum who was trying to stir up the pot before being lynched. **Vote Pleonast** ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/754 "2011-01-27T17:34:23Z")
All I can say about this lynch is that it’s absolutely _insane_ to lynch a player who has, essentially, claimed a Detective role, on Day Two, with no counterclaim, whose one claimed investigation has proven true by the confession of the player in question. This goes beyond bad play into absolutely irrational play - and this is true even if Pleo turns out to be Scum. If Pleo is not Scum, and if we’re about to lynch our own Detective on Day Two, then: 1. We deserve to lose the game; and 2. It’s hugely likely that there will be multiple Scum on this wagon. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/755 "2011-01-27T17:51:02Z")
Huh, I guess the Day is a little longer than I thought… Somehow I thought it was noon Eastern. Quoth **storyteller** : > [@](#): > > So Pleonast claims a power role, and as a result gets more votes? Independent of any other arguments against him, can one of the late voters for Pleonast explain why a partial claim is, in and of itself, Scummy? If he had said that he was Sherlock Holmes, detective (or I guess that guy from _Inception_, given that his power supposedly works through dreams), and then posted his role PM, and then said what he said about **Cookies** , then I probably wouldn’t have voted for him. But a half-assed claim like he made? A Townie has no good reason to hold back information like that. He’s bound to die very soon (even if not lynched, Scum would want to kill him ASAP), and a Townie should never want to take secrets to the grave. A Scum, however, has plenty of reason to make a half-claim like that: He might not have fully thought out his fake PM yet, he might be afraid that his fake PM will have inconsistencies in it, he might want to be able to change his story in reaction to the developing situation, he might be building in insurance against a counter-claim (like, say, if the real Detective counterclaims, he might say he’s some other sort of role and that was just a one-off). Now, of course, it _is_ possible that a genuinely Town **Pleonast** is just being eccentric and is just holding back information for no good reason. But first of all, I’ve never liked the argument of “Oh, that’s just so-and-so being so-and-so, let’s give him a pass”. And second, if he’s being so eccentric that he’s trying to take information to the grave, is he even, practically speaking, a power role at all? Is he even going to bother telling us his next investigation result? A detective who doesn’t share is effectively no detective at all. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/756 "2011-01-27T17:58:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But a half-assed claim like he made? A Townie has no good reason to hold back information like that. He’s bound to die very soon (even if not lynched, Scum would want to kill him ASAP), and a Townie should never want to take secrets to the grave. You can genuinely not think of any reason why a Town power role would not want to reveal the details of his/her role? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/757 "2011-01-27T18:01:39Z")
I’m with Storyteller. For all my misgivings about Pleonast’s reveal, and for as scummy as it struck me last night, I can’t get behind voting for him. After having slept on it, I think it’s in town’s best interest to let Pleo live another day. I’m still quite convinced Wolverine is scum, so that’s where my final vote will be for today. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/758 "2011-01-27T18:01:43Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Pleonast(8): Thesearemypants, Idle, Oneandonly, Meeko, Cometothedarkside, Chronos, Chipacabra, Wolverine Chipacabra(2): Suburban, Mentalguy Wolverine(1): Astral Idle(1): Pleonast Mentalguy(1): Redskeezix Cometothedarkside(1): Ushimi Two hours and somebody dies! 🙂 \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/759 "2011-01-27T18:02:26Z")
Oh, and as to the insanity of lynching a claimed detective with no counterclaim, is it even more insane to do so on Day 1? We did that in LotR Mafia, and got ourselves a Scum that way. Of course, his role PM stunk, which was a large part of it… But here, we can’t even say whether **Pleo** ’s role PM stinks, because he hasn’t given it to us. Don’t pin too much on the lack of a counterclaim: The very fact that it’s so early makes it likely that there wouldn’t be a counterclaim either way, and it’s made doubly unnecessary by the fact that people aren’t much moving their votes away from **Pleo**. Oh, and from **Suburban Plankton** : > [@](#): > > After Pleonast’s claim, there were three people who unvoted ushi, but didn’t make a ‘replacement’ vote. I’m curious as to why. As far as I can tell, none of the information that has been revealed by either Pleo or Cookies has anything whatsoever to do with ushi…so if you thought he was Scum before the reveal, why did you suddenly think he wasn’t Scum afterwards? My opinion of **ushi** hasn’t changed, but obviously my opinions of both **Pleonast** and **Cookies** have. When we suddenly got information that was so much more substantial than anything we had before, I realized that it was very likely that I would be making my vote based, at least in part, on that new information. I needed time to process it, though, to decide _how_ I would use the new information. So I unvoted **ushi** while I was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/760 "2011-01-27T18:04:08Z")
I’m going to vote, for the moment, for **Chipacabra**. **Suburban Plankton’s** case is compelling, and I want to back that opinion with a vote. **vote Chipacabra** **Pleo** , I really hope you’re planning a full claim before you die, if you’re Town. If you’re going to be out of the game anyway, I can’t see any reason to with-hold information as you go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=39)