# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/761 "2011-01-27T18:04:15Z")
Quoth **storyteller** : > [@](#): > > You can genuinely not think of any reason why a Town power role would not want to reveal the details of his/her role? Really? I can’t think of any that seem likely to be applicable to this situation. Can you? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/762 "2011-01-27T18:08:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **storyteller** :I can’t think of any that seem likely to be applicable to this situation. Can you? How much time do you have? I can think of _hundreds._ Here’s four: 1. He has only a one-shot investigation. If he reveals this, he is unlikely to be Night killed, but having investigated and reported, getting Night killed would be his best next step. 2. Instead of being a dedicated investigator, he actually has a menu of powers (Mahaloth has put at least one such player in every game he’s designed that I’ve seen prior to this one, I think). Revealing further detail of his role would reveal this fact. 3. He has some sort of limitation on his investigations, one that can be manipulated by the Scum (ie, he can investigate only when he himself meets certain criteria, or when his target does). 4. He is, in fact, a dedicated and unlimited alignment investigator. Revealing this would eliminate options 1-3 (and a host of other options) and clearly identify him as public enemy #1 for the Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/763 "2011-01-27T18:14:14Z")
Now for some odds and ends that have bothered me. > [@Meeko](#): > > I need to Vote Pleonast or Cookies. No you don’t. You can vote for anyone you want. I’d recommend voting for people you find scummy. > [@MentalGuy](#): > > Cookies, while I think you have to ultimately make the decision of who and when to kill, I think a decent target would be Ushimi. While I have generally felt that he was probably town, he is taking quite a bit of heat, and a reveal of his alignment would allow a bit better analysis of the Oredigger wagon at the end of Day 1. You too? I swear, you’re as bad as Wolverine. If you think Ushi is town, _you don’t vote for him or recommend others kill him._ If he’s town, his death won’t tell us anything about the Oredigger wagon except that it probably had some scum somewhere in it, _which we already can likely guess._ I hate defending him so vociferously when I don’t particularly have a good feel on whether he’s town or not (I suspect town, but it’s just a suspicion), but I made a vow to defend folks against terrible arguments, and this is a terrible argument. > [@Wolverine](#): > > If Pleonast is a Town power role, than his vote for Oredigger was not scum motivated. With no scum motivation to vote to save Ushi, it means that Ushi is not scum, hence why I removed my vote (modus tollens). In case I was away from the game for before it ended, I didn’t want to keep my vote on Ushi if Pleonast convincingly claimed some town power role. If Pleo = X, then Ushi = X, where X is townie, right? Does that honestly make sense to you? Pleo did not introduce the case against Ushi. Clearing Pleonast does not clear Ushi in any way. And, just so I’m clear, you unvoted Ushi because town power role Pleo voted for Oredigger which means his vote wasn’t scum motivated therefore Ushi is not scum, and now you’re voting for town power role Pleo. Have I summarized your vote accurately? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/764 "2011-01-27T18:29:05Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > All I can say about this lynch is that it’s absolutely _insane_ to lynch a player who has, essentially, claimed a Detective role, on Day Two, with no counterclaim, whose one claimed investigation has proven true by the confession of the player in question. This goes beyond bad play into absolutely irrational play - and this is true even if Pleo turns out to be Scum. > > If Pleo is not Scum, and if we’re about to lynch our own Detective on Day Two, then: > > 1. We deserve to lose the game; and > 2. It’s hugely likely that there will be multiple Scum on this wagon. I don’t follow this at all. \*\*Why should we keep a Scum Detective alive story? \*\* I mean, if I understand the last line of your first paragraph, you are advocating to keep a scum alive. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/765 "2011-01-27T18:31:30Z")
> [@Wolverine](#): > > If Pleonast is a Town power role, than his vote for Oredigger was not scum motivated. With no scum motivation to vote to save Ushi, it means that Ushi is not scum, hence why I removed my vote (modus tollens). In case I was away from the game for before it ended, I didn’t want to keep my vote on Ushi if Pleonast convincingly claimed some town power role. > > However, since we haven’t heard back from Pleonast, it’s looking more like Pleo is scum who was trying to stir up the pot before being lynched. > > **Vote Pleonast** So you’re saying that if \*\*Pleo \*\*is a Town Power role, then that means his vote for \*\*Oredigger \*\*was ‘sincere’, and that in turn means that \*\*ushi \*\*is not Scum. Forgive me, but this makes absolutely no sense to me. How does a Townie \*\*Pleo \*\*making a ‘good faith’ vote on \*\*Oredigger \*\*have anything remotely to do with \*\*ushi \*\*(other than the fact that Pleo apparently felt that \*\*Oredigger \*\*was more likely to be Scum)? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/766 "2011-01-27T18:37:05Z")
Haven’t been able to engage much to in the game, but I have after reading the last couple of pages, my current vote still stands. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/767 "2011-01-27T18:44:56Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I don’t follow this at all. > > \*\*Why should we keep a Scum Detective alive story? \*\* > > I mean, if I understand the last line of your first paragraph, you are advocating to keep a scum alive. Obviously not. If we had definitive proof that Pleonast was Scum, then of course it’s not just good play but essentially required play to lynch him. We don’t. Maybe he’s Town, and maybe he’s Scum. Given that we don’t know which, we have to evaluate the risk-benefit involved in lynching him. The risk if he is Town is huge, and unrecoverable: absent some pretty unusual powers, once we mislynch our own Detective, it’s done and there’s no going back. The benefit of lynching a Scum Pleo is substantial… but not enough to outweigh the risk. Because the benefit to lynching a Town Pleo is negligible. But the risk to leaving a Scum Pleo alive, at least for now, is modest and recoverable. He can always be lynched in the future if better evidence of his Scumminess emerges. We don’t lose a lynch; we get to use it somewhere else. Thus, it makes no sense to lynch **Pleonast** at this stage. If he turns out to be Scum, it will have a positive outcome but still be a bad play, in the same way that calling a Hail Mary on 4th and an inch might _work_ but still be bad strategy. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/768 "2011-01-27T18:47:27Z")
All that said, by the way, **Pleo** ’s failure to come back and mount any defense at all gives me precious little sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/769 "2011-01-27T18:50:38Z")
He hasn’t claimed that he is the dective. Quite frankly I don’t know how anyone could be more suspicious. It’d take a lot for me to change my vote ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/770 "2011-01-27T18:51:47Z")
The problem with **Pleonast** , for me, starts with the that his role seems to be incredibly powerful. He gets an identity, and alignment, and a power. That’s significantly more information than a ‘normal’ investigative role gets. That suggests that he is not simply a ‘role+alignment+power investigator’, because that just seems too overpowered to have in the game. It suggests his ability is one-shot, or he’s a jack-of-all-trades, or something along those lines. Now, I can see \*\*storyteller’s \*\*argument that in that case he might not want to make a complete claim at this point…but the problem is that he barely made even a \*partial \*claim. It was posted almost as an afterthought: > [@Pleonast](#): > > I apologize for the lack of posting, this week is slamming me hard at work. I am happy with where my vote is. Also, so that my lynching is not a complete debacle: > > _[reveal of **Cookies** ’ identity]_ He tells us a bunch of stuff about **Cookies** , apparently all true, but doesn’t even give a \*hint \*as to anything about himself. I find that suspicious, especially after the fishing expedition that he seemed to be on Yesterday. Of course, this could all be \*\*Pleo \*\*playing according to his own particular set of rules; I often disagree with the way he plays, but don’t necessarily think he’s Scum because of it. So right now I think \*\*Pleo \*\*is highly suspect, but I’m not certain. On the other hand, I still think \*\*Chip \*\*is Scum, and nothing that he has said recently has changed that opinion, so I’m leaving my vote there. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/771 "2011-01-27T19:01:06Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Pleonast(8): Thesearemypants, Idle, Oneandonly, Meeko, Cometothedarkside, Chronos, Chipacabra, Wolverine Chipacabra(3): Suburban, Mentalguy, Storyteller Wolverine(1): Astral Idle(1): Pleonast Mentalguy(1): Redskeezix Cometothedarkside(1): Ushimi \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/772 "2011-01-27T20:05:13Z")
The loudspeaker crackled again. “Seriously, we need to fix this thing, don’t we? I mean, man, this thing crackles like crazy every time I use it,” the same voice said. “Anyway, wow. Wow. I mean you actually woke me up with this one. Here I was sitting amongst the corpses(shoot, I have got to stop mentioning that) and you folks come along and make one of the boldest….and dumbest moves I’ve seen in this little experiment.” The voice actually started giggling. “So, let me see if I get this. You have someone who tells you that they can discern the true identity of others in the game. So what do you do? You vote to have that person killed? Are you insane? Did something happen to you all when you were little that makes you want to lose this thing? I mean, no one even came against him! Well, I don’t care either way, but that was so dumb it was interesting.” “And we(I mean I) like interesting. I think this was one of the most interesting moves I’ve seen. OK, then, off we go.” [Pleonast dropped into a pit, which had formed rather suddenly near him.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV26tp5aAI4&feature=related#t=2m56s) Cool, right? :crackle: “Oh, he was evil. And not as smart as we(I mean I) expected.” \*\*Pleonast was Satan, a member of the NDCE. He was able to enter dreams and learn true identities(investigator). \*\* It is now Night Two. Day Three begins at Noon Eastern on Saturday, January 29. I used a Supernatural clip, but he was not from there. He was just Satan from the Bible. Also, all teasing is juts color, folks. Nothing personal. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/773 "2011-01-27T20:07:04Z")
\*\*Could it be… SATAN?! \*\* /Church Lady. Woot Woot WOOT. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/774 "2011-01-27T20:26:28Z")
Well done! I wish I could say “I knew it all along!”…but I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/775 "2011-01-27T21:21:06Z")
_unfettered triumphalism_ ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/776 "2011-01-27T21:55:23Z")
Hot diggity! ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/777 "2011-01-27T23:26:35Z")
\ Oh. Well. _Never Mind._ ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/778 "2011-01-27T23:44:02Z")
Nice going. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/779 "2011-01-27T23:50:21Z")
Ah, well. Sometimes life gets in the way of mafia. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/780 "2011-01-28T06:55:55Z")
Or afterlife, as the case may be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=40)