# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/841 "2011-01-30T05:22:14Z")
Ah, so we’re finally awake. I had a couple of points I was going to bring up, but they’re both moot now. Ah, well, I went to all that trouble of thinking, so I’ll say what I was going to say, anyway. First of all, when I saw that **Pleonast** was Scum, my thought was “Ah, if **Cookies** has to choose toNight, then she’s pretty likely to choose Town, since we now look to have an advantage”. Of course, that’s mooted by her own admission that she didn’t choose until after we saw all three of those deaths. And **Storyteller** ’s right; with three Town dead including a mason in one Night, it would be perfectly reasonable for **Cookies** to choose Scum. Then, I was going to ask **Red Skeezix** about his post-dawn and post-dawn but before dawn [post 793](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13408493&postcount=793), where he asks **Cookies** if she killed **Chip**. At that time, we had two kills, but I don’t see any reason to ask **Cookies** about only one of them. Shouldn’t it have been just as plausible (at that time) to think that she had killed **Wanderers** and that Scum had killed **Chip**? Actually, I’m still a little curious about that, but it’s only an idle curiosity now, since **Red** is now confirmed. Speaking of which: Yes, **Red** is confirmed, and doesn’t need anyone backing up his story, unless he’s counterclaimed (which I really don’t expect to happen). We know that **Chip** was a Mason, and Masons never show up alone. Therefore there is another Mason, and if **Red** weren’t it, then someone else would be, and would be able to counterclaim him. The lack of a counterclaim therefore confirms **Red**. Also, **Red** , I can thinking that **Mahaloth** might want to replay that one, given that it pretty much never got played in the first place (basically, a bunch of Town just stood around scratching their butts and watching themselves lose), but did that game have any mechanism that would account for three deaths in one Night? **Cookies** has claimed one, of course, and presumably one was the Scum, but who killed the third person? Quoth **ushi** : > [@](#): > > Fourth, you know what else I don’t like? She admits to killing Town. I’m not sure why you would hold that against her. Yes, she killed Town, but he almost certainly had no way of knowing that he was Town before she killed him. You can question her judgment in using her kill at all at this time, and if she had killed someone who had already been confirmed, that would obviously have been bad, but what did she actually do wrong? Or is it just the fact that she admits it that bugs you? What should she have done, lied about it? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/842 "2011-01-30T05:42:39Z")
> [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > This is beyond me. > > First off, as feared we end up with 3 dead town (though admittedly not in the exact way I expected). > \>\>\> I consider this to be P.I.S. - you come on over strong here. Town can’t expect to fear 3 deaths. We can expect to fear 1 and Cookies Vig shot. Town can’t assume more than that, let alone fear it. > > Second, I was under the impression we were going to at least try to direct **Cookie** ’s kill. Instead she rolled the dice and killed a Mason (and, assuming you believe \*\*Red Skeezix[\b]'s claim exposed the other). Brilliant play. And we still don’t know her faction. > > \>\>\> I’m not sure how Town can direct much of anything. Suggest, yes, but direct? Could you elaborate here? > Rolling dice to Vig is bad, mmkay? > Where do you come from, Armchair Quarterbacking? How much experience do you have playing Mafia again? > > I’d like to know in simple and exact terms exactly how that ended up being a pro-Town play? > > \>\>\>\> What would that get you? > > Yes, we got one Scum, a power one at that - but it reads to me like it was more being lucky the player was too busy IRL to come in with a cover story than any brilliant detective work by anyone. > > \>\>\> What is the Town Motivation here? > > The only thing I gather from that is the early **Pleo** votes over **Cookies** are unlikely to be Scum. So, even though I think their reasoning is idiotic, I don’t think those players are Scum. > > \>\>\>\> What is the Town Motivation here? **You think voting for Scum is more anti-town than voting for someone who can become town?** Run this one by me again, please? > > Actually, it’s not fair to call it idiotic. It’s so non-existent as to be beyond the bounds of idiocy and right into the arena of making decisions by watching jumping frogs. > > \>\>\> If it is ““so non-existent”” what are you arguing against it for? > > When I have time (not today), I’m going back through the exact history of yesterDay’s votes. > \>\>\> That’s good. Can I ask why ? > > Until then, I’m keeping my vote on Cookies. > > \>\>\> Ok. Not really sure why though. > > First off, we should have lynched her yesterDay, and everyone who didn’t is directly responsible for the death of our Mason and the loss of any advantage that would have provided. > > \>\>\>\> Where is the Town Motivation here ? Oh, right, Town can somehow puppeteer power roles. Right, silly me for forgetting this. /Sarcasm > > Second, I don’t know about how you guys play games, but I don’t join the “underdogs”. If I were unaligned, and just saw 3 Town go down (especially on what I personally consider devastatingly retarded reasoning and therefore wasn’t worried about Town doing the right thing and lynching me), I wouldn’t be exactly chomping at the bit to join Town. > > \>\>\>\> FWIW, I think Cookies has a thing for underdogs. That is to say, I think it is a phrase / philosophy she has had in other games. > > Third, I don’t like her dismissal toDay of any need to discuss her and to assume she’s a lynch. Especially after the lunacy of not lynching her yesterDay. It’s far, far from a given she will be lynched toDay. In fact, I’ll wager she will **not** be lynched. > > \>\>\>\> Why would this be a bad thing? Do you have reason to not believe her? I don’t want to lynch town, and well, Cookies said she aligned town. > Fourth, you know what else I don’t like? **She admits to killing Town**. > \>\>\>\> And ? > > – Snipped – > That being said, it’s very early in the Day and I want to hear what other people have to say for themselves after lastNight’s debacle. > \>\>\>\> \*\*Come again? > \*\* My comments come after \>\>\>\> above. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/843 "2011-01-30T06:35:38Z")
> [@Wolverine](#): > > Nothing has changed from yesterday about Ushi. I was wrong about wanting Pleonast second because now scum has lost their investigator. That trumps any type of logical order I was going on about. I feel like I’ve been picking on you all game, and then you go and say stuff like this and it reminds me why I keep picking on you. Nothing has changed from yesterday about Ushi, except now you can’t quibble over the kill order between him and Pleo, right? Am I paraphrasing you correctly? That’s what you said up there in the quote? **Yesterday you thought Ushi was town, but his death would give us good information about the Oredigger thing.** So, once again, you’re happily voting for someone you’ve repeatedly said over and over again that you believe is town. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/844 "2011-01-30T06:43:30Z")
A couple of random thoughts: Why MentalGuy? Why OneandOnlyWanderers? I don’t feel like going through all of their posts tonight 'cuz I’m tired, so I’ll do it tomorrow. I want to raise the question though… why do you think they were targeted? Cookies, who I don’t trust in the least, should not be our lynch today. 1) If she joined the scum team, she likely brings no additional information or powers to their ranks. 2) Plus, her voting history won’t get us any closer to catching scum, because prior to today she wouldn’t know who her teammates were. 3) There’s the off chance she’s telling the truth. 4) She’s a known variable, and I have a better target. **Vote Wolverine.** I’ve been consistently the only person voting for this guy, and I don’t think his actions have gotten the recognition they deserve. Somebody, anybody, either agree or disagree with me about how incredibly scummy he’s been. ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/845 "2011-01-30T07:01:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not sure why you would hold that against her. Yes, she killed Town, but he almost certainly had no way of knowing that he was Town before she killed him. You can question her judgment in using her kill at all at this time, and if she had killed someone who had already been confirmed, that would obviously have been bad, but what did she actually do wrong? Or is it just the fact that she admits it that bugs you? What should she have done, lied about it? What should she have done? Nothing. Why does it bug me? Because if we had lynched her, she would not have killed Town? That was one of my main points. Short of having a **confirmed** Scum target, it was foolish to not lynch not-Town and even more foolish to let not-Town take a “roll the dice” kill. What is unclear or confusing about that? It was a stupid ass play, and it hurt us badly. So A: it was stupid of Town to allow it to happen, and B: assuming she genuinely had Town interest at heart, it was stupid of her to take the Kill. Let me make it clearer: If Town had the option on Day One to make 1 kill or 7, which would you choose? If you have less-than-perfect information, it makes sense to minimize the damage you might cause by acting on that partial information. [QUOTE=Chronos] Speaking of which: Yes, Red is confirmed, and doesn’t need anyone backing up his story, unless he’s counterclaimed (which I really don’t expect to happen). We know that Chip was a Mason, and Masons never show up alone. Therefore there is another Mason, and if Red weren’t it, then someone else would be, and would be able to counterclaim him. The lack of a counterclaim therefore confirms Red. [/quote] There couldn’t be 2 other masons that haven’t said anything? The other mason maybe hasn’t said anything at all yet? You just say “unless he’s counterclaimed”. Therefore there is still a possibility. So, he’s not confirmed yet, thank you very much, although I personally believe him. [QUOTE=Meeko] \>\>\> I consider this to be P.I.S. - you come on over strong here. Town can’t expect to fear 3 deaths. We can expect to fear 1 and Cookies Vig shot. Town can’t assume more than that, let alone fear it. [/quote] A mislynch. Cookie kills Town. Scum kills Town. That’s 3. It was spelled out several times. Granted, we avoided the first, but not for any reason beyond dumb luck (or poor play on Scum’s part for not coming back with a cover story). If we had lynched cookies, it would have removed the possibilty of lynching Town. That is what I mean (and said a couple of times). We ended up losing 3 anyway for some other reason, but that only means we were risking 4 deaths instead of 3, which hardly weakens the original argument. [QUOTE=Meeko] \>\>\>\> What is the Town Motivation here? You think voting for Scum is more anti-town than voting for someone who can become town? Run this one by me again, please? [/QUOTE] The entire point is, they didn’t know they were voting for Scum. Just because you won the lottery doesn’t make you a mathematical genius. And you want to call me an “armchair quarterback”? Physician, heal thyself. [QUOTE=Meeko] \>\>\>\> Why would this be a bad thing? Do you have reason to not believe her? I don’t want to lynch town, and well, Cookies said she aligned town. [/quote] I’ve said I’m Town, yet you’re set to lynch me. The only thing (at this exact point) we now have is a **weaker** case against Cookies, which means all we have done is increased the **uncertainty** of any lynch. [QUOTE=Meeko] \>\>\>\> FWIW, I think Cookies has a thing for underdogs. That is to say, I think it is a phrase / philosophy she has had in other games. [/quote] Sorry I’m not the metagamer that some players are. What someone did in some other game, or the composition of teams from some other game from the same moderator or whatever are of zero interest to me. Also, don’t use that \>\>\> QUOTE shit, Some of your lines are prefixed and some aren’t, and frankly I don’t want your retardation clouding my words. I thought there was a rule on that in general on this board? How much experience do you have on the SMDB, again? [QUOTE=Meeko] \>\>\> I’m not sure how Town can direct much of anything. Suggest, yes, but direct? Could you elaborate here? [/quote] You know what? No, no I will not elaborate. You go back and read the posts where Cookie was saying how she would kill based on Town’s wishes. You go back and read the posts where it was discussed how useful it would be (or not be) for Town to tell her to attempt to Kill. You do the reading and stop jumping to conclusions. Or don’t, it’s up to you. [Quote=Astral Rejection] I’ve been consistently the only person voting for this guy, and I don’t think his actions have gotten the recognition they deserve. Somebody, anybody, either agree or disagree with me about how incredibly scummy he’s been. [/quote] Yes. Already said he’s my backup choice to Cookies. As I said, I highly doubt we will be lynching Cookies, so I’ll probably end up voting Wolverine later. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/846 "2011-01-30T07:09:59Z")
Feel free to share your thoughts on what you think the consensus was for what my actions should have been last Night, ushi. Only a few people even bothered to weight in with anything, and fewer still agreed about what it should have been. ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/847 "2011-01-30T07:14:05Z")
[QUOTE=Cookies] Feel free to share your thoughts on what you think the consensus was for what my actions should have been last Night, ushi. Only a few people even bothered to weight in with anything, and fewer still agreed about what it should have been. [/quote] Then do nothing. Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Anyway, it doesn’t matter, because… ==== On reflection, with **Astral** ’s reasoning and my own cynicism that this Town team couldn’t lynch Scum with the Tidy Bowl Man soaking the rope in Powerful Scrubbing Bubbles I realize I’d just be wasting time and effort on Cookies. **Unvote Cookies** **Vote Wolverine** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/848 "2011-01-30T07:15:03Z")
I remember a couple of people (myself included) saying to not do anything. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/849 "2011-01-30T07:30:57Z")
And a couple of people thought I should have killed Ushi. But most people said nothing. Not that I should do nothing, but they offered no opinion. That is not consensus. I had offered to do the bidding of a consensus. None was reached. I acted on my own, and I was wrong. As to Chronos’ question about why Red specifically asked me about Chip, I had been voting for Chip prior to switching to Pleonast. I’m assuming that had something to do with why he asked. Wolverine’s play strikes me as inexperienced. Maliciousness has yet to be shown. He isn’t persuading anyone with his arguments, he’s just drawing attention to himself with them. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/850 "2011-01-30T14:21:01Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Ushimi(4): Idle, Thesearemypants, Wolverine, Meeko Story(1): Cometothedarkside Wolverine(2): Astral, Ushimi \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/851 "2011-01-30T18:45:31Z")
As for why i asked cookies whether or not she had killed chip, i was trying to ascertain whether she had gotten a win con yet. I feel like cookies has to be lynched today, but I also want to pursue other cases, as soon as I find them. I am puzzling over the kill choices from last night, neither one makes much sense from a scum perspective. Astral, I guess i’m being thick, but could you update+restate (concisely) your case on wolverine? Also, i disagree with both idle and pant’s assessment of the day 1 lynch regarding ushi. I find it equally likely that pleo would choose to make a defensive stance in a town on town lynch, so as to appear more townlike as to defend a fellow scum like that. Do you have anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/852 "2011-01-30T19:35:26Z")
Quoth **ushi** : > [@](#): > > The entire point is, they didn’t know they were voting for Scum. Just because you won the lottery doesn’t make you a mathematical genius. So Town shouldn’t get any credit for lynching Scum, because hey, they didn’t know, but **Cookies** should get blame for killing Town, even though she didn’t know. And you’re confident that there’s no way that this group of players could possibly lynch Scum, despite the fact that we just did exactly that. I think you’re just trying to stir up confusion, now. **Vote ushi** Oh, and so as to not focus exclusively one one player, let’s look back at yesterDay, [posts 760, 761, and 762](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13401730#post13401730), by **storyteller** and myself: In post 760, **storyteller** says that he can’t see any reason for **Pleonast** to withhold information. In post 761 (simulposted, before I saw post 760), I ask **storyteller** if he can think of any reason for **Pleonast** to withhold information. Then, in reply in post 762, **storyteller** says that he can think of hundreds of reasons. Gee, he sure thought of a lot of reasons in those four minutes, didn’t he? Finally, with regards to **Cookies** , I think that the answer is still what I thought yesterDay: Hunt for other Scum, and if the game is still going when we think we’ve got all of them, kill **Cookies** then. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/853 "2011-01-30T19:46:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and so as to not focus exclusively one one player, let’s look back at yesterDay, [posts 760, 761, and 762](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13401730#post13401730), by **storyteller** and myself: In post 760, **storyteller** says that he can’t see any reason for **Pleonast** to withhold information. In post 761 (simulposted, before I saw post 760), I ask **storyteller** if he can think of any reason for **Pleonast** to withhold information. Then, in reply in post 762, **storyteller** says that he can think of hundreds of reasons. Gee, he sure thought of a lot of reasons in those four minutes, didn’t he? That’s entirely dishonest on your part. In 760, I am specifically saying that there is no reason for **Pleonast** to with-hold information if he is on his way out (ie, about to be lynched, about to die). In 762, I am (clearly) talking about reasons that a power role might choose to with-hold information in general. Circumstances change when a player is about to die - there is no good reason for a Town player to take pertinent information to the grave if it can be avoided. This is an extremely dishonest attempt to manufacture an apparent inconsistency where none exists, and it makes me terribly suspicious of **Chronos**. This is a little sad, because I kind of agree, in principle at least, with this: > [@](#): > > Finally, with regards to **Cookies** , I think that the answer is still what I thought yesterDay: Hunt for other Scum, and if the game is still going when we think we’ve got all of them, kill **Cookies** then. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/854 "2011-01-30T19:51:47Z")
Wolverine repeatedly makes cases that do not benefit town. First, [he votes for Ushi](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13388630&postcount=632) despite concluding that Ushi is likely town, and his death would only give us good information if he was scum. This post has some excellent hedging - despite calling for Ushi’s death, Wolverine has left himself an out, adding that Ushi is “most likely innocent.” He later [concludes that Pleo looks guilty either way](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13397915&postcount=689), but refuses to vote for him. I’d consider this good scum strategy: agree with the case on a fellow scum, but don’t add your vote to it. That way, if he flips scum, you can say you were “for it” but weren’t 100% and felt you had a better case on someone else. And if he ends up short, your buddy lives another day. Instead, he repeated his asinine vote for Ushi, **after** repeating his belief that Ushi is most likely innocent and an inexperienced player. He then weaves some really tangled bullshit about giving free town passes to people depending on whether Ushi is town or not, making sure to repeat that if Ushi is town, it tells us **nothing** about any of the other voters. He is the [very last person to vote for Pleonast](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13401544&postcount=753), with a little less than three hours to go. To be fair to him, he had unvoted Ushi the night before, but only adds that he “[wants to hear from Pleo](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13399835&postcount=715)” before revoting. Very much playing it safe, very much not wanting to be the final nail in his teammate’s coffin, in my opinion. Today’s vote is a doozy. As I’ve shown, he’s consistently claimed that he believes Ushi to be town. So, I guess it makes sense to [vote for him again](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13409901&postcount=838). He adds that “nothing has changed from yesterday,” a statement I would disagree with pretty heavily. We’ve got a few more bodies lying around, and a ton more facts to analyze, but he seems pretty content to continue voting for someone he believes to be town. That’s my case on Wolverine. I’m gonna do Scuba\_Ben and Thesearemyownpants are next. Last night I was going over in my head who’s pinged me the most throughout this game, and those three are my top targets. For now, I’m still very content with my vote on Wolverine. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/855 "2011-01-30T20:03:42Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s entirely dishonest on your part. In 760, I am specifically saying that there is no reason for Pleonast to with-hold information if he is on his way out (ie, about to be lynched, about to die). In 762, I am (clearly) talking about reasons that a power role might choose to with-hold information in general. Circumstances change when a player is about to die - there is no good reason for a Town player to take pertinent information to the grave if it can be avoided. In that case, your post 762 wasn’t really an answer to my question, since I specifically asked about reasons relevant to the then-current situation, where **Pleonast** was in fact due to be lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/856 "2011-01-30T20:05:39Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Ushimi(5): Idle, Thesearemypants, Wolverine, Meeko, Chronos Story(1): Cometothedarkside Wolverine(2): Astral, Ushimi \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/857 "2011-01-30T20:17:35Z")
This was posted by \*\*Cookies \*\*Yesterday when she was arguing why we should allow her to live through the Day: > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Remove me from the equation and you’d still end up with 2 dead Town in your scenario, a mislynch and a scum kill. It is also not a crazy unlikely scenario that the Town might find an extra kill handy in the future, like say, two likely Scum targets as early as Tomorrow due to Tonight’s actions of Town powers, or a slip, or a questionable post. > > The redirection risk I can’t address/mitigate/control/make go away _on my own_ if/when I do kill, but if Pleo is lynched and is a scum redirector, that is one way it could be mitigated, or if we have a town role-blocker who blocks well, it could be mitigated. > > I don’t have to try and kill Tonight. If you trust for a moment that I’m claiming and pledging my Townie loyalty honestly, what is the risk of letting me live and not kill Tonight? This highlights my biggest complaint against **Cookies**. As she noted in the last paragraph, _ **she didn’t need to kill last Night** _. And there she all but promises that she \*won’t \*kill if we let her live. But she \*did \*kill. If she was ‘pro-Town’, I can see no reason why she would kill in that situation. I ended the Day voting for \*\*Chip \*\*myself, but I was nowhere near being sure enough of his guilt to unilaterally kill him if there was no compulsion for me to kill. I don’t like the fact that she lied to us, telling us that she wouldn’t kill during the Night if we didn’t lynch her Yesterday. And frankly, I don’t believe her when she says she chose to side with Town, \*after \*seeing that three Townies were killed during the Night. **vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/858 "2011-01-30T20:34:29Z")
**Unvote Story** He’s clarified his stance and there are other people doing more of what I was accusing him of trying to do. Do you have anything to say about anyone other than me, Suburban? There is a field of other players, where the scum actually are. I’d be willing to vote for Ushi again, but it is possible that I find that more compelling than I should. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/859 "2011-01-30T20:47:41Z")
First off, **vote Suburban Plankton** This is for the day 1 slip, and pleo catching it. It was a pretty esoteric catch to say the least. I went back and read his accusation of you, and it reeks of a bus attempt. The way i’m seeing it is that suburban made a slip up and his scum buddy caught it. It would be a pretty good bus because pleo had a fairly solid claim possibility given that he had investigative powers. Secondly, I’m not buying the pleo protecting ushi for the simple reason that he said he would vote for anyone who gave a self preservation vote. He could have simply sided with the case against oredigger in that situation without drawing attention. I don’t think he would have fenced himself in so easily, had ushi decided to self preserve. This last sentence does not read to me like scum protecting scum to me. > [@Pleonast](#): > > Note to **ushi** , if you switch your vote to **Ore** , I will switch my vote to you for the same reason. Finally, Cookies, did you send in your kill info before or after it was revealed that OAOW was dead? Were you told by the moderator that you had to choose your alignment before or after OAOW was revealed to be dead? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/860 "2011-01-30T20:58:21Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I was not forced to kill last Night. I submitted my orders at 1:23 am Pacific on 1/28. I was told I needed to choose sides at 7:54am Pacific on 1/29, an hour and 6 minutes prior to [Mahaloth’s opening death reveal of the Morning](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13408165&postcount=787). At that time I was told that “a town player had died in the Night”, apparently in order to make a more informed choice. > > But as I was asleep until about 12:15pm Pacific, I saw that there were actually 3 dead Townies before making my choice. I chose Town because a) I said I would b) I feel I owe the Town my allegiance for killing one of the Town Masons c) with 3 killed in one night, everyone loves the underdog. With that timeline, it suggests that the act of trying to make a kill could have been the trigger to choose sides, or that one of the dead had to die in order for me to be able to choose, or that Night 2 triggered the choice, or something else that there is no evidence of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=44)