# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/941 "2011-02-01T21:33:27Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > **Snipped.** > > I do love this part. I’m scum for playing the game. They call that a service ace in tennis, folks. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > NETA: The mistake my second paragraph refers to is Story’s mistake. Don’t want anybody thinking I’m outing myself as scum. 🙂 Granted, I snipped a majority of the first, but it is interesting to hold the final line on its own. Don’t know that town would want to get up and say “I’m Scum” even with a hedgerow of uhm, er, hedges. As for Scum Motivation, well, would that be WIFOM or Scum wouldn’t do that ? Why do you not want us to think that you are outing yourself? :dubious: Don’t know, just, I don’t know where to put these two quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/942 "2011-02-01T21:37:08Z")
In your first quote, Story has accused me (for meta reasons) for being scum for putting so much effort into the game. In your second quote, I’m clarifying unclear wording on my part, and also making a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/943 "2011-02-01T21:49:10Z")
A follow-up question for you, Meeko: where do you think I’m hedging? I made a case on 3 people, and picked one to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/944 "2011-02-01T22:26:18Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Granted, I snipped a majority of the first, but it is interesting to hold the final line on its own. Don’t know that town would want to get up and say “I’m Scum” even with a hedgerow of uhm, er, hedges. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > A follow-up question for you, Meeko: where do you think I’m hedging? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I do love this part. **I’m scum for playing the game.** They call that a service ace in tennis, folks. I believe all three are Snipped. Bold added to the last The first part (of the bolded) is clear to me. The hedge comes in the second part. The assumption is this is a joke. The assumption could something else. You could be scum. Let me try at mine again : - don’t know that town [players] would want to get up (that is draw attention to themselves) and say “I’m Scum” even with a hedgerow of hedges. – In my opinion, it has too many chances to be misread and misused. Perhaps hedge is not the right word. I mean to get at your statements that take away from the initial “I’m scum”. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/945 "2011-02-01T22:42:04Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This is a really excellent catch, SP. It’s true I didn’t catch my mistake (I interpreted his quoting of you as a response to you, and assumed you must be doing what he was talking about), but he really should have. > > I made that exact mistake in LOTR mafia, and I was - you guessed it - scum in that game. If we have reached the point where _your_ mistake is being regarded as a Scum tell for _me_ because, in a mountain of mistakes, misconceptions, and mis-statements, I missed one of them… then we’re pretty far gone. Look, **Astral** , you’re either wrong or malicious, but if it’s the former you’ve got confirmation bias driving you on and if it’s the latter, there’s no point in continuing the conversation. I’ve offered my side, you yours. I’m not going to go back and forth point by point into infinity on this. (By the way, I guess it didn’t come across this way, but all the “angry” and stuff is not real-life angry… it’s just joking around arrrrrgggh kind of angry, it’s just a game, nothing personal here even if you are completely off your nut :D). * * * @Chronos - you misunderstand. I don’t mean to say that you, specifically, are making an assumption. I’m saying that the whole argument only makes any sense at all if **ushi** is Scum, which assumption I think is a shaky one. * * * @Plankton - I agree that we can fault Night Two Cookies for her decision to kill. My point is that Day Three Cookies is no longer the same player, in essence, as Night Two Cookies. Night Two Cookies was unaligned and playing according to her best interests in that capacity; she owed us no loyalty or obedience. Day Three Cookies is a different animal entirely, and judging her on her actions in her previous incarnation is unwise from our perspective as it’s going to create a biased result (of course she behaved in an arguably anti-Town manner; she was _not Town_). ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/946 "2011-02-01T23:00:16Z")
> [@](#): > > (By the way, I guess it didn’t come across this way, but all the “angry” and stuff is not real-life angry… it’s just joking around arrrrrgggh kind of angry, it’s just a game, nothing personal here even if you are completely off your nut ). Understood. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/947 "2011-02-01T23:04:19Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > @Plankton - I agree that we can fault Night Two Cookies for her decision to kill. My point is that Day Three Cookies is no longer the same player, in essence, as Night Two Cookies. Night Two Cookies was unaligned and playing according to her best interests in that capacity; she owed us no loyalty or obedience. Day Three Cookies is a different animal entirely, and judging her on her actions in her previous incarnation is unwise from our perspective as it’s going to create a biased result (of course she behaved in an arguably anti-Town manner; she was _not Town_). I understand what you’re saying here, and I cannot stress how strongly I disagree. Day Two Cookies, Night Two Cookies, and Day Three Cookies are _the same person_, so we can’t treat her like she’s _two different people_. You’re correct that she owed us no allegiance Yesterday (or even last Night); that’s not my point. It’s true that she was not-Town; however, she told us in no certain terms that she was planning to play this game in a Pro-Town manner. We trusted her to do this, and let her live through the and of the Day. And her actions last night, in my opinion, betrayed that trust. I believe that she was acting in her own self-interest Yesterday (as would be expected), and that she was acting in her own self-interest last Night (again, as would be expected). In post 814 she tells us that she was aware that three Townies had died during the Night _before_ she chose her alignment. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I was not forced to kill last Night. I submitted my orders at 1:23 am Pacific on 1/28. I was told I needed to choose sides at 7:54am Pacific on 1/29, an hour and 6 minutes prior to [Mahaloth’s opening death reveal of the Morning](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13408165&postcount=787). At that time I was told that “a town player had died in the Night”, apparently in order to make a more informed choice. > > But as I was asleep until about 12:15pm Pacific, I saw that there were actually 3 dead Townies before making my choice. I chose Town because a) I said I would b) I feel I owe the Town my allegiance for killing one of the Town Masons c) with 3 killed in one night, everyone loves the underdog. She tells us that she chose Town. I beleive she is lying, and that she instead again acted in her own self-interest (which again is completely expected), and chose Scum. I am judging the player **ComeTotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** , not "Day Three Cookies’ or ‘Night Two Cookies’, or any other imaginary entity. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/948 "2011-02-01T23:35:36Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Astral Rejection crits you with a Wall of Words! > > **Pants:** I’m not goign through the whole post, but if I’m scum I would’ve known that Pleonast was the scum detective. If this was a gambit what could scum possibly have to gain from it that would make the huge risk worthwhile? It would be postively mad for a scum player to start the ball rolling on the scum detective player in the first place and even madder to at no point retreat from his position. Tbh your post has set alarm bells ringing for me, as I’d quite frankly I can’t see how anyone could **honestly** take my actions as scum **unvote ushimi** **vote Astral Rejection** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/949 "2011-02-01T23:38:47Z")
I’m confused - I describe most of your actions as having a townie feel to me. Is this another OMGUS vote? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/950 "2011-02-02T00:01:08Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m confused - I describe most of your actions as having a townie feel to me. Is this another OMGUS vote? Now I’m also confused, I’ve re-read your post and it still looks to me that your calling me out which I simply cannot square with my voting patterns on day 2. If you are not saying I am scum then I withdraw my vote, because the only reason is that I cannot square that accusation with me pushing for the lynching of **Pleonast** who turned out to be the scum detective. [ **unvote Astarl Rejection** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/951 "2011-02-02T00:06:46Z")
Another thing I find interesting in all of this, is that out of all of the information I have provided, the portion about my allegedly choosing sides last Night is apparently being taken as gospel. I don’t believe one person has seen fit to express doubt of that, whereas everything else is still being held in various degrees of doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/952 "2011-02-02T00:08:29Z")
btw has anyone offered any possible explantion as to why 3 people were killed last night? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/953 "2011-02-02T00:12:19Z")
My kill + probable scum kill + possible extra scum kill possible serial-killer-who-was-interferred-with-on-Night-1-or-can-kill-in-a-non-mandatory-fashion kill possible Town vig kill off the top of my head ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/954 "2011-02-02T00:22:48Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Another thing I find interesting in all of this, is that out of all of the information I have provided, the portion about my allegedly choosing sides last Night is apparently being taken as gospel. I don’t believe one person has seen fit to express doubt of that, whereas everything else is still being held in various degrees of doubt. Wait. Wait. WAIT. Is this WIFOM?! Did I finally get it right ? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/955 "2011-02-02T00:32:11Z")
It is merely an observation. I did in fact choose sides last Night, and I chose Town. My use of alleged was for all y’all’s benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/956 "2011-02-02T00:57:01Z")
Quoth **Storyteller** : > [@](#): > > @Chronos - you misunderstand. I don’t mean to say that you, specifically, are making an assumption. I’m saying that the whole argument only makes any sense at all if ushi is Scum, which assumption I think is a shaky one. Oh, OK, that part of the argument doesn’t work if **ushi** is Town (though the point about **Pleonast** is still valid). But then again, the whole thing is clearly erroneous if you’re Town. And maybe you know you’re Town, but the rest of us don’t. > [@](#): > > @Plankton - I agree that we can fault Night Two Cookies for her decision to kill. My point is that Day Three Cookies is no longer the same player, in essence, as Night Two Cookies. Night Two Cookies was unaligned and playing according to her best interests in that capacity; she owed us no loyalty or obedience. Day Three Cookies is a different animal entirely, and judging her on her actions in her previous incarnation is unwise from our perspective as it’s going to create a biased result (of course she behaved in an arguably anti-Town manner; she was not Town). On the other hand, though, current- **Cookies** ’ claim is basically that she intended from the start to choose Town. So if current- **Cookies** is being honest with us, she should be playing the same as unaligned- **Cookies** was. And of course, if she’s not being honest with us, she can pretty much be assumed to be Scum now anyway, so it’s still OK to hold her accountable for her actions when unaligned. Quoth **Cookies** : > [@](#): > > Another thing I find interesting in all of this, is that out of all of the information I have provided, the portion about my allegedly choosing sides last Night is apparently being taken as gospel. I don’t believe one person has seen fit to express doubt of that, whereas everything else is still being held in various degrees of doubt. I can’t see any conceivable motivation for you to lie on that score. First of all, when you were unaligned, you were especially vulnerable, such that your death by any means would mean you’d lose the game. It makes sense to lie to say you’re more vulnerable like that, but not to say that you’re less vulnerable. Second, if you haven’t yet chosen, then you should be at least considering the possibility that you’d eventually want to choose Town, in which case you shouldn’t be lying, in case you hurt your future team with your misinformation. And heck, even Scum only lie when they have something to gain from it, and as seldom as possible (since sometimes a lie can be caught): What could you gain from your claim to have chosen, if it weren’t true? Now, obviously, you _could_ be lying about _which_ side you chose, but I don’t think anyone’s blindly trusting you on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/957 "2011-02-02T01:28:24Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Another thing I find interesting in all of this, is that out of all of the information I have provided, the portion about my allegedly choosing sides last Night is apparently being taken as gospel. I don’t believe one person has seen fit to express doubt of that, whereas everything else is still being held in various degrees of doubt. Well, to be completely honest, I assume we are replaying HP mafia (or a slightly altered version of it as I haven’t seen a potato yet), based on the roles so far. Which would imply that you were mandated to choose after the 4th death, same as Snape. Also, it’s not really important today, but it might be important in the future, so I’ll just own up to my mistake: I killed Mental Guy. If a mason dies, the other mason had to make a kill. I glossed over the part in my PM that I’d have to immediately choose, so initially I thought I’d have till the middle of the day at least, but I got a PM around 9am et on saturday, that said I’d have to kill someone. (I didn’t even check my pm’s till after i posted the question to Cookies about the chip kill. So i probably read it around 1pm) I had to make an immediate call, and I had 3 obvious choices to choose from, and arguably I picked the second worst of the three: Kill someone I thought was scum, Kill Cookies and solve that mystery, or Kill ushi and remove the next most likely to be lynched today and spare myself from reading any more of his posts. Well i am and was still pretty convinced that ushi is more likely town, so i wasn’t going to cause a town death on purpose. In hindsight, I really should have popped cookies, but I went with mental guy based on the way that he picked between voting for chipa over pleo yesterday, it had a hint of choosing the town player over the scum player that scum players will sometimes do. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/958 "2011-02-02T01:36:30Z")
@story: Why did you choose to track as your first night’s action? Why did you choose Pleo? ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/959 "2011-02-02T01:42:56Z")
[Out of game] It is Chinese New Year and while I’m out of work for a few days, I’ll be busy with other things (watching my son, holiday celebrations, etc.) so I won’t be able to participate fully. While I’ll be reading and making an occasional statement, I won’t be able to respond to serious cases against me. Xin Nian Kuai Le! [/Out of Game] ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/960 "2011-02-02T01:44:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, it’s not really important today, but it might be important in the future, so I’ll just own up to my mistake: I killed Mental Guy. If a mason dies, the other mason had to make a kill. I had kind of suspected that: The most plausible explanation, for me, of the extended Dawn was that the moderator was waiting for mandatory actions, and mandatory actions are generally triggered by something, and the only obvious trigger was the death of a mason. But by the time I had figured that out, you had already claimed, and I didn’t want to grill the confirmed mason. And I’m not **storyteller** , but it’s reasonable for a jack-of-all-trades to lead off with an information-gathering power of some sort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=49)