# Hotel of Heroes mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544 "2011-01-14T01:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/121 "2011-01-15T06:09:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course, to be fair, the fact that I was able to get away with lying about my program in that game raises the possibility that I might be able to do it again. I don’t know how much programming skill anyone here has, but if you aren’t able to independently verify the program, and you don’t trust me, then I would recommend that you just disregard any output I report. Snipped. Of course, to be fair, the fact that I was able to get away with lying about my program in that game raises the possibility that I might be able to do it again. Actually, for once, I have nothing to add to this. - I don’t know how much programming skill anyone here has, but if you aren’t able to independently verify the program, and you don’t trust me, then I would recommend that you just disregard any output I report. Mu. / I reject this premise. It assumes that your program is flawless to begin with, and that all the error lies with the operator. I’m not sold on the program being flawless. You might know this better as “I never beat my wife, therefore it is incorrect to ask me if I am _ **still** _ beating my wife” Furthermore, there are multiple programing languages. I don’t think that translating the program is a worthwhile endeavor. ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/122 "2011-01-15T06:18:02Z")
I finally figured out how to enable PMs. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/123 "2011-01-15T06:19:08Z")
Oh and I am male. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/124 "2011-01-15T07:02:49Z")
I shudder to think what the new players are thinking right about now: potatoes, shoes, \*\*Chronos \*\*lying to his own computer program… …the best advice I can offer is to pay no attention to it all right now and just concentrate on what’s going on in \*this \*game, and leave all of the ‘insider stuff’ to the ‘insiders’. It’s most likely all going to turn out to be irrelevant anyway. **Meeko** , I wouldn’t worry about **Chronos** ’ motivation for trying to fool his program. Since we have no idea a) how good **Chronos** ’ programming abilities are, b) whether or not he’s feeding valid data into his program, or c) whether or not he’s telling the truth about it’s output, then it’s basically useless to us as far as confirming information goes. If he wants to do some extra debugging, then by all means he should do that. If he wants to crunch the numbers and then announce to us all how they come out, then I’ll give his information exactly as much credibility as anyone else’s. **Chronos** , I don’t see where you’re getting your “we probably have a lot of powers” feeling from. I don’t personally get that impression from reading the color, and in any case I think trying to divine meta-information from the color is a fruitless exercise in the first place. You may be correct, you may be incorrect, but I think it’d be pure coincidence either way. And to head things off at the pass, I’m against any mass claims (on principle). Now, could somebody please pass the artichoke dip? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/125 "2011-01-15T07:22:00Z")
I’ve reviewed the program (during LOTR) so I don’t know if it’s changed since then. But IIRC, I disagree with the underlying assumption that is driving the model (that town will vote for scum more often than scum will vote for scum.) So don’t be too offended, chronos, if I scoff at any results posted here. Plus, due to the manner of controlling the input, it seems easy to make a mistake, and hard for others to verify your results. And based on past history, the program doesn’t have enough history to say truly whether it will guess right more often than a bunch of coinflips. Pants, I don’t like the newbie card being played preemptively. It feels like hedging to me. Don’t worry so much about saying the wrong thing: It’s more important to get hunches and opinions about things out there in the open, despite the caginess that others display. I don’t know how many times that after i’ve left the game, I’ve thought “Man, i wish i had said my suspicions about xyz because they are not getting ANY attention”. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/126 "2011-01-15T07:53:28Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I’ve reviewed the program (during LOTR) so I don’t know if it’s changed since then. But IIRC, I disagree with the underlying assumption that is driving the model (that town will vote for scum more often than scum will vote for scum.) Snipped. **This.** This is in line with what I was trying to say earlier. I’m not sure if my implication as written bridged ‘program’ and ‘premise’. It occurs to me, that the program could actually be flawless - however, if the program produces garbage, it’s worthless. Might also be a case of garbage in, garbage out. Once again, someone else is making a similar point to mine, and is using better words for it. - **Plankton** : Did you want to take a pass at Shoes, or are we waiting on **Peeker** to field it? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/127 "2011-01-15T07:54:08Z")
confirming receipt of pm ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/128 "2011-01-15T08:56:49Z")
If I’ve ever been the sole woman player before, I’ve forgotten. So it either has never happened or it was a really long time ago. I have nothing but love for all footwear and starchy side dishes. I’m trying not to make any assumptions about the setup. I’m also still willing to allow for the possibility that Peeker is a mason…again. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/129 "2011-01-15T12:01:21Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > And to head things off at the pass, I’m against any mass claims (on principle). > > Now, could somebody please pass the artichoke dip? \ yaknow this is an interesting position. and i swear to og that i am not needling you **burby**. but why do you feel this way? is it because it feels like it is outside the spirit of the game or some other reason? i mean at some point we seem to always have this discussion in every game. is it time, is it too early, kind of stuff. back in the day it didn’t seem like we had this discussion as much as we seem to do currently. and in those days if you were scum you had to get the old #2 and start working vigorously. so the great and wonderful mods developed a counter strategy. the fake role pm. so to some extent the mass claim has been watered down. i’m hoping that the i am spartacus movement picks up steam (thanks, btw). and then it will be well and truly dead. because i agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/130 "2011-01-15T12:06:26Z")
and just kind of a general observation. i sure hope **cookies** is wearing comfy shoes (hee hee) because it does appear that her dance card will be booked solid this go round. ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/131 "2011-01-15T13:27:36Z")
Confirming Role PM. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/132 "2011-01-15T13:28:45Z")
\*\* 1. Wolverine - male 2. ushimitsudoki -male 3. thesearemyownpants -male 4. specialed - male 5. chipacabra - male 6. suburbanplankton - male 7. mentalguy - male 8. Meeko - male 9. astralrejection - male 10. Oneandonlywanders - male\*\* **11. cometothedarksidewehavecookies -female** \*\*12. redskeezix - male 11. storyteller -male 12. oredigger -male 13. peekercpa -male 14. Pleonast -male 15. idlethoughts -male 16. Chronos -male \*\* Now, you boys be nice to cookies. And Cookies, kicking anywhere is absolutely allowed in this game, so feel free. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/133 "2011-01-15T13:30:54Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Pants, I don’t like the newbie card being played preemptively. It feels like hedging to me. Don’t worry so much about saying the wrong thing: It’s more important to get hunches and opinions about things out there in the open, despite the caginess that others display. I don’t know how many times that after i’ve left the game, I’ve thought “Man, i wish i had said my suspicions about xyz because they are not getting ANY attention”. Okay, I had an idea. I thought making a mass **name claim** might be a worthwhile idea as possibly scum might have suitably villainous names and thus be forced to lie about their names. Even if it is highly unlikely to reveal anything it still might be worthwhile as a way of getting the ball rolling and making everyone put a few posts out their for examination. ---
**Author:** ![ushimitsudoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9a140/32.png) [@ushimitsudoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ushimitsudoki)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/134 "2011-01-15T13:39:35Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > Okay, I had an idea. I thought making a mass **name claim** might be a worthwhile idea as possibly scum might have suitably villainous names and thus be forced to lie about their names. Even if it is highly unlikely to reveal anything it still might be worthwhile as a way of getting the ball rolling and making everyone put a few posts out their for examination. On first glance, this sounds like a decent idea. I could get behind it barring some argument that it hurts more than helps. Also, I’d like to mention that I live in Japan, just so people know what to expect in terms of a response time! ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/135 "2011-01-15T13:42:04Z")
> [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > On first glance, this sounds like a decent idea. I could get behind it barring some argument that it hurts more than helps. > > Also, I’d like to mention that I live in Japan, just so people know what to expect in terms of a response time! \*there (in my previous post) I live in the UK, so I’m not working on a different clock as well. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/136 "2011-01-15T13:46:41Z")
Your lovely and talented co-mod will be AFK until tonight except by phone, thus operating in a read-only mode. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/137 "2011-01-15T15:27:51Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > I’m just going to confirm I’ve received my PM. I don’t have much to add at this juncture as a newbie I’m going to wait for someone else to start the ball rolling about strategy > [@These are my own pants](#): > > Okay, I had an idea. I thought making a mass **name claim** might be a worthwhile idea as possibly scum might have suitably villainous names and thus be forced to lie about their names. Even if it is highly unlikely to reveal anything it still might be worthwhile as a way of getting the ball rolling and making everyone put a few posts out their for examination. \*\*I am having a very hard time reconciling these posts as coming from the same person. \*\*Harder time still accepting that pants made no post between these two. One or the other seems coached. \*\*There are two differently marked speeds here. Let us not forget that someone could feign being a noob. \*\* Unless… Come on **Mahaloth** , let’s do this fruitless dance : \*\*Do scum have access to the scum board 24/7 ? Can Scum strategize on their board durring the Day? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/138 "2011-01-15T15:33:45Z")
> [@ushimitsudoki](#): > > > [@These are my own pants](#): > > > > Okay, I had an idea. I thought making a mass **name claim** might be a worthwhile idea as possibly scum might have suitably villainous names and thus be forced to lie about their names. Even if it is highly unlikely to reveal anything it still might be worthwhile as a way of getting the ball rolling and making everyone put a few posts out their for examination. > > On first glance, this sounds like a decent idea. I could get behind it barring some argument that it hurts more than helps. Here are the pros and cons as I see it: Pros: 1. If names do give away alignment, Scum will be forced to lie (and 3rd party may as well) 1a. A name investigator may be able to catch them. 1b. They may duplicate the name of a Town player and give themselves away. Cons: 2. If names do not give away alignment, then the exercise is worthless at best and perhaps counterproductive if we use the data produced to kill Town players with evil sounding names. (Mahaloth moderated Lost, I think he learned his lesson.) 3. If names do give away alignment, they may also give away power roles. 2a. Scum will have information to use to determine who has what powers and act accordingly. 4. If names give away alignment and Scum lie, it will still be difficult to impossible to determine who is lying and who is not. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/139 "2011-01-15T15:36:01Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*I am having a very hard time reconciling these posts as coming from the same person. \*\*Harder time still accepting that pants made no post between these two. One or the other seems coached. \*\*There are two differently marked speeds here. Let us not forget that someone could feign being a noob. \*\* > Unless… > Come on **Mahaloth** , let’s do this fruitless dance : > > \*\*Do scum have access to the scum board 24/7 ? Can Scum strategize on their board durring the Day? \*\* It should be irrelevant if they can strategize during the Day or not, as we are currently in night 0. Also, I don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility for a newbie to have seen this idea mentioned already and suggest it. Especially when one considers that it is an idea that experience says is likely a poor one. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544/140 "2011-01-15T15:36:14Z")
\*\*How different are name claims from handshakes? \*\* \*\* Ed?\*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hotel-of-heroes-mafia/567544.md?page=8)