Sigh. To clarify what I said above. The extra ‘tax’ can be any name they choose to refer to it as. I’m sure in some destinations it’s mandatory. Around here it isn’t but it’s portrayed as if it is. It’s likely a front desk clerk even believes it is if they’re reasonably new to the job.
These non mandatory charges are largely organized by businesses in the area. Many cities have a collective group that may call themselves ‘Businesses For Downtown Improvement’ or some such thing. I suppose it’s similar to a Chamber Of Commerce. Not really sure. I operated a business but I’ve never been a club joiner type person.
Anyway it’s these businesses that often come up with the idea of an extra ‘tax’ and get the blessing of city council, however it isn’t an enforceable law. At least not around here. But, as I’ve already said, they won’'t tell you that. Many people probably pay their tab without even realizing they’ve been hit up.
Often the purpose of such charge is nothing to do with city infrastructure, policing etc. They claim to use to to further attract tourists. Perhaps by hanging flowering baskets from lamp posts & things of that nature. So as a tourist, paying the charge would be a bit like buying yourself a bunch of flowers.
If it’s a small charge I just pay the damn thing, as most probably do even if they are aware it’s a cash grab because it isn’t worth the debate. It does leave a sour taste though. You’re already supporting them with money spent within their community.
Most residents hate world fairs & mass gatherings coming to their city. I lived close to Vancouver when Expo 86 happened. I was far enough in the suburbs that the influx of people didn’t bother me. I did work in the city, had a season pass and enjoyed the fair on quite a few occasions — particularly some of the concerts.
But the downtown core and the people living there were ravaged. There were many old hotels that were shut down or forced to renovate. Granted the hotels were dives that no one would stay at unless they were destitute. And the residents were just that. They were treated as if they didn’t exist and all city hall wanted was to hide the poverty and what came with it. So as a result, many were forced out onto the street with no where to go. As always, it’s the poor that suffer.
Quite a few restaurants in Niagara Falls tourist area offer residents a discount. I’m sure hotels & likely other attractions do as well. I hardly ever go there.
If something is called a “fee”, it is a negotiable part of the price. It is retained by the hotel.
But once you have agreed a price with the hotel (including anything like “resort fee”) you will always find taxes added to your final bill, usually as a percentage of the bill. Those taxes are not retained by the hotel, and are mandatory.
A hotel may try to obfuscate the difference here, but there’s a clear qualitative difference. Something like a resort fee is only “mandatory” in the sense that it’s hotel policy, and if it was not disclosed when you booked, you could in principle argue that they are violating a contract with you. Taxes are qualitatively different.
(I don’t know if there are laws concerning the misrepresentation of fees as taxes, but I would hope and expect there are.)
Our room tax here is 14.5%. Might be 14.55%. Sales tax is 8.6%, I think. Raising hotel taxes is an easy thing to get locals to vote for since mostly they won’t pay it.
Regarding a rate for locals: Believe it or not many hotels in my area will not allow locals to stay there. The reason for this is because so many people have booked rooms and had noisy parties and trashed the place instead of their own home. Or used the room for drug deals, prostitution, etc…
The negative side to this is someone that can’t stay in their own home because of construction, fumigation, the power went out, or an abusive spouse.
Jesus Christ, I feel as though I’m in a courtroom. I thought I made it clear that they call it what they want and it’s not technically (legally) a mandatory tax. Yes it’s a FEE (happy?) that many establishments may portray as a non-negotiable tax. It is not mandatory. Those that won’t remove the charge after not informing people of it as they should have done in the first place are slimy crooks.
Incidentally, the discounts for locals is primarily an off season thing.
Now I’m done with people quibbling.
I don’t know much about Canadian or Ontario’s laws, but what is being described in these articles wouldn’t be legal. Certainly in my state (Massachusetts) the Attorney General would be all over them.
I have arrived at a hotel in Florida and found that they tack on a $35 resort fee. I disputed the final bill with Amex and got my $210 back.
The hotel submitted a response to my dispute showing that on one page of their website there is at the bottom of the screen a “disclosure” of the fee. I submitted a series of screenshots showing that from their landing page to the booking confirmation there is no reference to the resort fee.
Yes, some places are strict.*. Honestly, I find it hard to blame them. I would guess 95- 98% of the guests we have had to evict and/or call the cops on have been local. We would be in trouble in the summer without them, but I have often wished we have that policy.
Many will make exceptions for true emergencies, like being housed by insurance due to fire, or the roof collapsing.
This is a lack of clear communication, possibly on your part.
The words ‘tax’, ‘mandatory’, ‘fee’ etc. all have distinct meanings.
I just looked at the website for Hilton Niagara Falls that was mentioned in your trip advisor link. Clear as day, if one goes to select a room, it states “Plus 11.49 % mandatory charge per stay, plus tax”. The mandatory charge and the tax are two separate things.
In my experience Hilton always take an honest approach to this. As with the Niagara Falls charge, they do the same thing as other hotels and charge a mandatory “resort fee” in Vegas, but it is prominently displayed when you book. That’s fine - a hotel can charge whatever it wishes so long as the price is fairly disclosed to you so that you can compare like with like when booking.
I would be surprised if it’s not illegal to use the word “tax” for anything other than a government-imposed levy that must be remitted to the government. But I also have no doubt that less reputable hotels try to obfuscate the difference between charges/fees that are hotel revenue and may be “mandatory” only in the sense of hotel policy, and taxes that are mandatory in the sense that they are imposed by the government and remitted to the government.
Well done! You should have hit them up for all the bother they created. Probably can’t do that if it was small claims. I imagine that here if a place refused to deduct the charge one could get it back through the courts but if it only amounts to under say $20. or even under $100 it wouldn’t be worth it except on principal.
Perhaps it wasn’t clear to some, but it was the reason I put quote marks on either side of the word tax (I may have missed once or twice), said that businesses can call it what they wish (they can’t legally call it a tax but I wouldn’t be surprised if some clerks believe it really is a tax) and many gloss over that the charge isn’t mandatory.
When I started commenting in the thread I was only tossing in my crappy 2 cents. Little did I realize that comments are held up to such scrutiny and analyzed word for word, character by character.
Now for those not overly familiar with the English language and before I get rebuked yet again; Quotation marks, or inverted commas — as I used to highlight the word tax (except if I forgot) can also highlight that a word is being used somehow peculiarly – a writer may wish to indicate irony, inaccuracy, or scepticism, for example; used this way, they’re called scare quotes. In the line: At the party I met a teacher, a journalist, and an ‘artist’, the scare quotes around artist act as a distancing device, probably signalling doubt about the person’s credentials as an artist.
Exactly! Unfortunately many corporations operate in ways that are misleading, bordering (or sometimes downright) dishonest. It’s as though it’s part of their genetic make up. Makes you wonder where heads of these corporations come from. What sort of parents & childhood did they have. Could be just that their parents are of the same ilk and operating honestly & in a forthright manner is completely alien to them. Sadly we come across this every day and as consumers we must always be on guard.
Yet in one of the examples you posted it is abundantly clear that the fee is not a tax.
No doubt there are slimy operators out there, but when we asked you for specific examples of the behavior you are talking about, you provide one that didn’t meet your description in any recognizable form.
This is a forum that places a high value on factual information and substantiation of claims. It can be exceedingly annoying when you want to vent. I see where you are coming from.
I thought you were likely just having a bad day when you seemed offended when people were just seeking clarification and more specific information, so I ignored it. But if you’re now doubling down and superciliously claiming that the problem is other people’s deficiency in the English language, I’ll review what I saw in your posts:
It certainly wasn’t clear from this first post that you understood that there is a clear qualitative difference between a fee/charge and a bona fide tax. The former may be mandatory by hotel policy, but it is hotel revenue; the latter is mandatory by law and it is remitted to the government.
In your second post, your scare quotes do now imply that you understand that a fee/charge is not a tax. But the issue is that you are still asserting that a hotel is allowed to call it a tax. That contradicted my understanding of the law in most jurisdictions - hence my request for a specific cite. Because I wanted to know if there are some jurisdictions where my understanding was incorrect. Hotel desk clerks often obfuscate the difference verbally, and I want to be sure that I’m on solid ground if I tell them they are wrong.
So your early posts were confusing and at least partially wrong. But then all anyone did was seek clarification of your claims and ask for specific cites because we were concerned that maybe we were wrong. Your pompous overreaction is not justified or appropriate - especially since your eventual cite did not support your claim.
They probably don’t have any way of distinguishing ahead of time between the times when they’re going to have to vacuum up a bit of hair and the times when they’re going to have to clean up poop and pee and vomit and deal with complaints from the other guests about loud barking.
Pets can also be quite destructive and people lie like a rug about how well their pet is trained. Gnawing on furniture, using furniture to sharpen claws on, etc., etc.
Following up my own OP here, apologies to all of this is considered gauche.
By coincidence (not too big of one because we drive this route once or twice a year) I once again found myself having driven over ten hours of a ten hour drive and still being three hours from my destination and my wife decided it would be safer to call it a night at around 8pm. We were right before the exit for the same hotel.
My wife dies not use a phone in the car (motion sickness sets in) so I pulled out of the highway and into the parking lot of this same hotel to see if I could find a pet friendly hotel.
I found that this very hotel did, and then in a move that infuriates my wife, I decided to repeat this experiment. I did not make a reservation but instead walked up to the front desk and asked for a room, presented my BonVoy number and they quoted me $193/night, exactly what the website would give me for a non-cancelable rate. $75 for the pet fee was additional.
As far as I can tell, all the guy did was go into the reservation system of the chain (Marriott) and book me a room using my account and my credit card. I even got an email confirming my reservation.
So at least Marriott, or maybe just this Marriott, has changed their practice of gouging walk-up guests. Or maybe only walk-guests who are in their loyalty program.
