# House 4/3 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 3, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592 "2007-04-03T18:31:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/41 "2007-04-04T16:18:11Z")
Biggest problem was that they did it on Scrubs a week or so ago, and I assume the shows have more than just me as a crossover audience. I’m used to seeing a mystery disease hit a number of medical shows - but usually it takes long enough to have kind of forgotten about it. I liked their reactions to the photographs of each other. That was nice. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/42 "2007-04-04T16:19:37Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] I completely disagree. The mother made a choice and the doctors did their job. How does that not fit with the mantra of a womans right to choose? [/QUOTE] Extremely valid observation. In my opinion, some of the reactions above suggest that at least some people are disingenuous when they claim that they favor _choice for the woman_ as the only deciding factor. In the story line under discussion, the woman made a choice, and she is excoriated here for it. Apparently it’s ok to be in favor of choice only when the woman in question makes the _correct_ choice, to abort. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/43 "2007-04-04T16:22:42Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] I completely disagree. The mother made a choice and the doctors did their job. How does that not fit with the mantra of a womans right to choose? [/QUOTE] The mother made a stupid choice which _prevented_ the doctors from being able to properly do their job (which would have been terminating the pregnancy). What made it a pro-life polemic was the fact that an idiotic “choice” which should have resulted in the woman’s death was justified by pure plot contrivance and sanctimonious moralism. Instead of showing the _real_ results of that kind of ignorant, self-righteous “choice,” they fabricated a miraculous ending which would never actually happen in real life and sends the strong message that any woman who terminates a pregnancy to save her own life is evil and that everything will be fine if she just hangs in there. The ending was a lie. The baby hand scene was a lie. The message to women was hateful and dangerous. The responsible thing to would have been to show this bitch dying as a result of her dumbass decision. That would have sent the right message. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/44 "2007-04-04T16:24:07Z")
[QUOTE=kelly5078] If the choice you make happens to coincide with the one that is advocated by those who would deny a woman’s right to choose, I don’t think there’s much mileage gained. [/QUOTE] Who is looking for mileage (whatever that means)? It’s either a choice or it isn’t. Doesn’t matter if you agree with the choice or not. Thats sort of the point of it being a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/45 "2007-04-04T16:24:47Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Extremely valid observation. In my opinion, some of the reactions above suggest that at least some people are disingenuous when they claim that they favor _choice for the woman_ as the only deciding factor. In the story line under discussion, the woman made a choice, and she is excoriated here for it. Apparently it’s ok to be in favor of choice only when the woman in question makes the _correct_ choice, to abort. [/QUOTE] I certainly didn’t see it that way. They told her she would die if she didn’t abort, and at the time, the doctors believed it. Now, the fact that they came up with something that worked came after the fact, and they were all eager to see if it would solve the problem. I think people were surprised that she was willing to die for a “barely a chance in hell” possibility that the baby would be ok. I didn’t hear anyone say abortion was the way to go for someone who wanted a baby. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/46 "2007-04-04T16:26:35Z")
I thought it was a really good episode. I liked watching Cuddy seeing what it’s like to play the medical maverick for once. The pro-life/pro-choice question never entered my mind once while watching it. (I would imagine that if the writers saw this thread, they’d be pleased to see that people are all over the place as to determining what the episode’s supposed slant was.) The scene with House and the baby’s finger worked for me, mainly because it DIDN’T cause him to have some great, fantastic epiphany about the sanctity of life. He never stopped believing that terminating the pregnancy was the best course of action, and had no problem letting the photographer know this. I’m not the biggest fan of the Chase/Cameron affair. I’m not impressed with the chemistry, and I’d hate to think that love might cause Chase to become less amusingly self-absorbed. The best I can say is that the way it was leaked to the rest of the staff did not involve some ridiculous plot machinations reminiscent of a bad _I Love Lucy_ episode. House just blabbed it out – simple office gossip. It didn’t strike me until later that the title of the Replacements song playing at the beginning is “Bastards of Young.” That can’t be a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/47 "2007-04-04T16:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The mother made a stupid choice which _prevented_ the doctors from being able to properly do their job (which would have been terminating the pregnancy). What made it a pro-life polemic was the fact that an idiotic “choice” which should have resulted in the woman’s death was justified by pure plot contrivance and sanctimonious moralism. Instead of showing the _real_ results of that kind of ignorant, self-righteous “choice,” they fabricated a miraculous ending which would never actually happen in real life and sends the strong message that any woman who terminates a pregnancy to save her own life is evil and that everything will be fine if she just hangs in there. The ending was a lie. The baby hand scene was a lie. The message to women was hateful and dangerous. The responsible thing to would have been to show this bitch dying as a result of her dumbass decision. That would have sent the right message. [/QUOTE] You’re looking for a message? Try an after school special. This is a show where miraculous medical shit happens every week. Every week House fucks up and almost kills the patient before he pulls it out in the end. This time there was a pregnant woman involved. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/48 "2007-04-04T16:27:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Extremely valid observation. In my opinion, some of the reactions above suggest that at least some people are disingenuous when they claim that they favor _choice for the woman_ as the only deciding factor. In the story line under discussion, the woman made a choice, and she is excoriated here for it. Apparently it’s ok to be in favor of choice only when the woman in question makes the _correct_ choice, to abort. [/QUOTE] My problem isn’t the choice _per se_, but what I believe is an irresponsible message that life-of-the-mother abortions are never really necessary along with the subtle implication that any woman who would choose to save her own life is less virtuous than a deluded nutjob who chooses not to. ---
**Author:** ![Nature\_s\_Call](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nature_s_call/32/19006_2.png) [@Nature\_s\_Call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nature_s_Call)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/49 "2007-04-04T16:27:28Z")
[QUOTE=Eleanor of Aquitaine] Not to be morbid, but it would have been a much better episode if the patient and/or the baby had died, proving that Cuddy truly was acting irrationally and proving House right again. [/QUOTE] Hear hear! Although, I did like the exchange between Cuddy/House [paraphrased] “Sometimes .1 is bigger than 9.9/No, it’s always smaller.” Nah, on second though, that exchange could have worked - and perhaps made more poignant - if death had been a result. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/50 "2007-04-04T16:32:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Who is looking for mileage (whatever that means)? It’s either a choice or it isn’t. Doesn’t matter if you agree with the choice or not. Thats sort of the point of it being a choice. Everyone is acting like a woman made a choice. A woman did not make a choice. The writers of the show made a character make a choice. They then proceded to pull on the heartstrings, and wrapped the whole thing up with a deus ex machina ending. A real woman could make the same choice, but she and her baby would both be dead. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/51 "2007-04-04T16:36:52Z")
[QUOTE=kelly5078] Everyone is acting like a woman made a choice. A woman did not make a choice. The writers of the show made a character make a choice. They then proceded to pull on the heartstrings, and wrapped the whole thing up with a deus ex machina ending. A real woman could make the same choice, but she and her baby would both be dead. [/QUOTE] Sometimes. Sometimes not. Women decide to go through with high risk pregnancies everyday. Women put there lives at risk for their unborns everyday. It is not unusual. Of course the circumstances are extreme in this case because it is _House_. There wouldn’t be a show if it wasn’t an extreme case. Thats the point of the show. That and to give House internal conflict. With wisecracks and vicodin. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/52 "2007-04-04T16:46:28Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sometimes. Sometimes not. Women decide to go through with high risk pregnancies everyday. Sure, but I’m not sure that “House” should be in the business of encouraging them to do it. This is a show about a doctor who, week after week, makes a set of wrong diagnoses until 47 minutes past the hour, when he usually, finally gets it right, and is still considered an unusually qualified physician (and sometimes surgeon, no less). Any show this whacked out should not be making moral preachments. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/53 "2007-04-04T16:47:03Z")
I didn’t buy the little hand grasping House’s finger, but I rather enjoyed seeing Cuddy coming apart at the seams for a change. ``` "I forgot to Tivo **Alien**." ``` ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/54 "2007-04-04T16:52:05Z")
[QUOTE=kelly5078] Sure, but I’m not sure that “House” should be in the business of encouraging them to do it. This is a show about a doctor who, week after week, makes a set of wrong diagnoses until 47 minutes past the hour, when he usually, finally gets it right, and is still considered an unusually qualified physician (and sometimes surgeon, no less). Any show this whacked out should not be making moral preachments. [/QUOTE] I saw no moral preachments. It was stated over and over that it was not the wise course of action. In fact I never heard even Cuddy make any anti-abortion statements. I saw no preaching in this episode. Maybe not a realistic outcome but that is true of 90% of the episodes. The show is there for our amusement not to teach lessons. I think you are looking to deep into it or through your own tinted glasses. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/55 "2007-04-04T16:57:28Z")
[QUOTE=kelly5078] Sure, but I’m not sure that “House” should be in the business of encouraging them to do it. This is a show about a doctor who, week after week, makes a set of wrong diagnoses until 47 minutes past the hour, when he usually, finally gets it right, and is still considered an unusually qualified physician (and sometimes surgeon, no less). Any show this whacked out should not be making moral preachments. [/QUOTE] All women should be so lucky as to have House as their doctor. The option of fetal surgery is open to a very small percentage of women in the world. If it wasn’t for him and a few doctors like him, there most likely would have been an abortion or a funeral. Most women aren’t stupid enough to opt for their own death. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/56 "2007-04-04T17:00:21Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I saw no moral preachments. I did. So, what, pistols at dawn? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/57 "2007-04-04T17:01:09Z")
[QUOTE=kelly5078] I did. So, what, pistols at dawn? [/QUOTE] Can you give an example of someone making a moral preachment? ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/58 "2007-04-04T17:08:03Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Can you give an example of someone making a moral preachment? I’ve already made my opinion of this episode known, and this has gotten way the hell too heavy for CS. But, one last time (and I really mean it), robot baby hand and deus ex machina happy ending were, IMO, moral preachments. If you and **Loach** don’t think so, I have no problem with that. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/59 "2007-04-04T17:13:10Z")
[QUOTE=kelly5078] I’ve already made my opinion of this episode known, and this has gotten way the hell too heavy for CS. But, one last time (and I really mean it), robot baby hand and deus ex machina happy ending were, IMO, moral preachments. If you and **Loach** don’t think so, I have no problem with that. Really. [/QUOTE] Well _I_ do damn it! Well actually I don’t. Fair enough, agree to disagree and all that. I saw it as an unlikely ending which is the whole point of the show but not at all preachy. ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592/60 "2007-04-04T17:20:40Z")
I would think that a woman undergoing major abdominal surgery (in order for them to get to the baby in order to do surgery on the baby) would be under general anaesthesia with a paralytic, which would prevent her from moving about on the table. Presumably the baby would be getting the same drugs via the umbilical cord (and, considering they would be doing surgery on the baby, you would sure HOPE the baby was fully anaesthetized.) So how is this unconscious, paralyzed baby supposed to be playing with House’s finger? Trust me, I thought the photography was beautifully moving — but at the same time, I recognized it as intentional heartstring-tugging at the very least, if not intentional anti-abortion propaganda. After all, didn’t House refer to the baby as “the baby” rather than “the fetus” for the first time after the surgery? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-4-3/398592.md?page=4)